ISU statement on Mariah Bell and Eun soo Lim

[overedge]

I am a bit curious about SafeSport and their role / or non-role in this, and why.

SafeSport doesn't have jurisdiction over the ISU. The ISU has its own grievance system (a totally ineffective one, but that's a different discussion). If these allegations about bullying at Raf's rink have any bit of truth, AFAIK Lim would be able to file a complaint because Raf is a USFS member.

 

[eurodance2001]

There are many good coaches out there who aren't well known because they don't currently coach high-profile skaters. IMO the more relevant question right now is which coach (well known or not) would want to take on Eunsoo after this trainwreck.

Joanne McLeod never met a TV camera she didn't like!

 

[overedge]

Joanne McLeod never met a TV camera she didn't like!

And she managed to deal with Mira Leung's mom, so she's used to dealing with, um, "difficult" people around a skater.....

 

[VGThuy]

McLeod might teach horrific skating technique which makes us think she doesn’t care about her skaters but she may be too protective of her own skaters to allow them to be subject to false accusations though or at least risk it.

 

[Rukia]

Where's Kori Ade at now? She can gently hold the hands of ATS and look into their eyes lovingly while listening to their concerns.

 

[snoopy]

Why do people want Lim to leave Rafik? She is "income" to him, he makes money training an elite skater. If Lim leaves, he loses money, and one more of "coach's venue for accomplishment".

I hope they all stay together and forget the incident.. it was stupid from the start. Someone's stupidity should not affect Rafael's earnings. He is not at fault.

I agree with you on one hand but the greater risk is Raf's reputation and lawsuits if Lim's team is prone to making false accusations and/or making private things public.

 

[natsulian]

At this point... we just have to wait and see what music pieces Mariah picks for the 2019/2020 season. Also, I truly hope the next National Championships are not going to try and sell this drama for tickets. I can already envision the Mariah narrative for next season.

 

[Spun Silver]

At this point... we just have to wait and see what music pieces Mariah picks for the 2019/2020 season. Also, I truly hope the next National Championships are not going to try and sell this drama for tickets. I can already envision the Mariah narrative for next season.

"Horns like a Devil" would be perfect for Mariah!
(Sorry, just watched Kevin Aymoz' SP.)

 

[Aussie Willy]

I would recommend that if you see stories appear about this on facebook to ask the administrators to remove them. It is the whole issue about incorrect reporting and beating up stories just for a headline. We do need to combat them.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I agree with you on one hand but the greater risk is Raf's reputation and lawsuits if Lim's team is prone to making false accusations and/or making private things public.

I don't know how "skaters parents' thinking works" and if this situation will affect anyone's consideration to skate with Rafael (if he takes them).... All i know a) he did nothing wrong, he is not involved. b) there are no grounds for any legal action, directly or tangently, to involve him. c) if Lim stays, it will only prove that this situation is a fluke/mistake.

Work is work, gossip is gossip. work comes first. hope they all stay together....

 

[Aceon6]

Raf’s In a tough spot. If Eunsoo didn’t do anything other than say “whoa, I got sliced”, that’s one thing. If Eunsoo characterized it as deliberate, it’s another. No coach wants people stirring it up within the group. He’s got to decide for himself what works.

If Eunsoo truly feels uncomfortable, she should find a different place.

 

[jiejie]

Joanne McLeod never met a TV camera she didn't like!

Best suggestion we've had so far for Next Coach prospect.

Where's Kori Ade at now? She can gently hold the hands of ATS and look into their eyes lovingly while listening to their concerns.

But this is a close runner-up!

 

[hanca]

I don't know how "skaters parents' thinking works" and if this situation will affect anyone's consideration to skate with Rafael (if he takes them).... All i know a) he did nothing wrong, he is not involved. b) there are no grounds for any legal action, directly or tangently, to involve him. c) if Lim stays, it will only prove that this situation is a fluke/mistake.

Work is work, gossip is gossip. work comes first. hope they all stay together....

Of course he did nothing wrong, but if you were deciding where to put your daughter, would you be happy to place her in a group where there is an increased chance that someone will make unfounded allegations and your daughter will be instantly famous as a person who assaulted/stabbed another skater? Especially when you know she is innocent? Bell was quite lucky the the incident happened at a public practice. Can you imagine if that happened at just normal day-to-day practice? There would not be a footage available to prove that Bell is innocent. I don’t think I would place my child into such environment. So it is quite likely that Rafael would be losing more money by keeping Lim rather than letting her go.

 

[kwanfan1818]

All i know a) he did nothing wrong, he is not involved. b) there are no grounds for any legal action, directly or tangently, to involve him

If there was bullying at the rink that he ignored and did not report to SafeSport, as a mandatory reporter, he could be liable.

 

[vesperholly]

Can you imagine if that happened at just normal day-to-day practice? There would not be a footage available to prove that Bell is innocent.

There are many rinks now that have continuous video footage through Live Barn.

 

[Yazmeen]

There are many rinks now that have continuous video footage through Live Barn.

Very good point.

 

[Tinami Amori]

If there was bullying at the rink that he ignored and did not report to SafeSport, as a mandatory reporter, he could be liable.

I think the "bulling" issue is a mis-translation/language issue of another situation at the rink that has nothing to do with "bulling".

(yes, i know few people who have "connections" to the Lakewood Ice who gave their opinions)... there is no "bulling" and no "cultural differences". in a nut-shell, Lim is an introvert, and Bell is an extrovert. Lim is nice, quiet, comes to the rink, keeps to herself, and there just to practice. Bell would not hurt a fly, let alone bullies anyone; if someone falls, she runs to help; if a new person comes, she'll be first to say hallo. But! she is giddy, loud, giggly, and all over the place like a dreidel... she piggy-back rides on her boyfriend, takes fotos of doing this/doing that, always a commotion around her. Some feel that "she takes over space with her presence" and "fills the space" and it may destruct one's attention from concentrating..... BUT IT IS NOT BULLYING!.....

 

[Eeyora1]

How about Kathy Johnson?
I’m guessing Brian Orser is out due to his previous history with ATS..

 

[CaliSteve]

. She’s seems a spoiled brat and I doubt Eteri would allow her diva behavior

It would be everything. Eteri vs ATS

 

[CaliSteve]

Raf’s In a tough spot. If Eunsoo didn’t do anything other than say “whoa, I got sliced”, that’s one thing. If Eunsoo characterized it as deliberate, it’s another. No coach wants people stirring it up within the group. He’s got to decide for himself what works.

If Eunsoo truly feels uncomfortable, she should find a different place.

Emotions can take over while your in competition. Look what happened at Worlds in 2016 between Yuzu and Denis. It was all about nothing.

 

[Spun Silver]

How about Kathy Johnson?
I’m guessing Brian Orser is out due to his previous history with ATS..

Kathy Johnson was awful. I just realized tonight that Kevin Aymoz is coached by Fontana and Zimmerman, so I'm thinking what with him and James/Cipres, not to mention Silvia and John, that's got to be an exciting group to train with.

 

[Eeyora1]

Emotions can take over while your in competition. Look what happened at Worlds in 2016 between Yuzu and Denis. It was all about nothing.

Or message boards after the 2002 Nationals ladies events.i remember hating Sasha after hearing she cut Angela Nikodinov off who didn’t make the team. Just a year earlier I saw her in Boston give the skate of her life. Poor Angela went through hell and back in her career.

 

[her grace]

I would recommend Eunsoo Lim consider going back to Hyun Jung Chi. Her home coach gave her that beautiful foundation and gorgeous jumps.

 

[UGG]

Or message boards after the 2002 Nationals ladies events.i remember hating Sasha after hearing she cut Angela Nikodinov off who didn’t make the team. Just a year earlier I saw her in Boston give the skate of her life. Poor Angela went through hell and back in her career.

Has there ever been video of the 2002 ladies warm up? I have heard how Sasha was shadowing Michelle and Angela but would really like to see a video.

 

[ballettmaus]

I can't believe this was on my local news tonight. Make it stopppppp ....

Just to really hit home how damaging ATS' behavior has been:

I met up with my sister tonight. One of the first things she asked me: "So I was reading [the paper] today and I saw an article...what's up with the crazy American skater who attacked the other skater?"

The news seems to have done a shoddy job reporting. My parents blamed Bell for skating so close to the boards and considered Lim the "victim" because she had her back to Bell after seeing it on the news last night - until I explained that Bell had the right of way and it was Lim's responsibility to know where Bell was during the run through. Why did I have to explain that to my parents after they watched the news? (I don't know which channel they watched but it would have been CNN, ABC, NBC or CBS, so reputable outlets).

 

[aftershocks]

Too bad that SNL doesn't care enough or know enough about figure skating and these skaters' personalities to do a classic, hilarious spoof of cheery, smile-a-minute Mariah Bell being nastily mean and cutthroat toward poor, sweet Eunsoo Lim.

This whole current bust-up reminds me of Hanyu's fans famously going apeshit on D-Ten, not that long ago, with videos and diagrams, and non-stop epithets hurled at Denis. It was obvious to me that Denis was simply worrying about his own physical problems and immersed in his creative headspace, without nary a thought in his head of purposely trying to get in Hanyu's way during practice sessions at 2016 Worlds.

D-Ten and Hanyu eventually had to release a picture together of them both smiling and burying the figurative hatchet, in order to somewhat calm down Hanyu-crazies (some of whom are still not appeased).

 

[misskarne]

It was obvious to me that Denis was simply worrying about his own physical problems and immersed in his creative headspace, without nary a thought in his head of purposely trying to get in Hanyu's way during practice sessions at 2016 Worlds.

At three times in two practice sessions, that is reckless disregard at the very least. No, that was a different situation, and one in which cries of deliberate action could be justified. But this was a pure accident, perhaps made worse by Eunsoo not paying attention to where Mariah was.

 

[aftershocks]

At three times in two practice sessions, that is reckless disregard at the very least. No, that was a different situation, and one in which cries of deliberate action could be justified. But this was a pure accident, perhaps made worse by Eunsoo not paying attention to where Mariah was.

Oh so you know all about the previous incident(s) and witnessed each incident up-close and personal and interviewed Hanyu and Denis about it all in minute detail. IMO, what happened surrounding Hanyu and Denis is a lot of similar hysteria, re on-ice mishaps, with the difference being Hanyu's championship stature and Denis' fame as a top skater who was struggling. The fact is, at the time, both Hanyu and Denis were both struggling with physical problems and neither seemed to be in the right mindset during their Worlds 2016 practice sessions.

But yeah, my comments were not intended to make this thread veer off into a Hanyu vs D-Ten bitch-fest.

 

[aftershocks]

Oh boy. The TSL video is so grainy. I find it interesting they chose to add footage of Mariah skating to her earlier season original version of Roxie Hart in Chicago, immediately followed by Eunsoo skating to the same music. When I first saw Eunsoo skating to the same music, and knowing that she'd just joined Raf's camp, I wondered about that exact same music selection. However, I figured that possibly Eunsoo and Mariah were friendly and that Eunsoo was skating to the same music with Mariah's good blessings. But apparently, that might not be the case.

Here's Adam Rippon's defense of Mariah:
https://people.com/sports/adam-rippon-defends-skater-mariah-bell/

It's been reported that NBC has a clearer tape of the incident. Maybe someone has already posted it in this thread.

 

[misskarne]

Oh so you know all about the previous incident(s) and witnessed each incident up-close and personal and interviewed Hanyu and Denis about it all in minute detail.

I was sitting in the stands at the first practice session where Ten cut Hanyu off twice. But obviously I know nothing about anything, and only the almighty aftershocks can be relied on for the absolute truth of a situation.