ISU statement on Mariah Bell and Eun soo Lim

[Holy Headband]

Yes it does.

Saying that because a 16-year-old's adult representatives filed a complaint hours after she was involved in an incident, she should have taken precautions other skaters don't need to take to avoid the incident doesn't make any sense, no.

 

[Finsta]

I'm seriously done with this discussion. American fans here are doing the exact same thing as the Korean fans. They don't reason, they just blindly blame. And they thought they are the righteous branch.

Also not American but studying abroad. Also not a fan of Bell. You can not deny the facts. Watch the video. Nothing happened. I feel bad for Mariah for all she has been put though

 

[Nikki Lee]

Who knew that there was collision in the warm-up before the SP between Vanessa James and Matteo Guarise? I never saw any mention of this, yet it apparently affected Ms James enough that the French pairs SP wasn't as good as it could have been. Another accident. . . but no nastiness afterwards.

 

[Vagabond]

Serious question: Why didnt the Hanyu/Yan MAJOR accident garner attention anywhere near as this?????

Because neither was represented by Yuna Kim's mother and because most Chinese and Japanese fans have other things to do with their lives besides hatching konspiracy theories.

Do you have any other questions?

 

[missing]

This says everything about the deterioration of American news and nothing on the actual situation.

I think American news is doing a fine job these days keeping me informed about Trump and his various problems. I don't see deterioration of their most important responsibility at all.

And I understand why the news is running with the story. It's about two very attractive young women, the younger and seemingly more vulnerable one injured right before the biggest event of her life. Think of it as cute girls in short skirts and it might not seem so implausible a story to focus on.

My hope (and I assume NBC's) is that it brings a bigger audience to Saturday night's prime time major network 2 hour show. I also hope it shifts the focus away just a touch from the miracle that is Nathan Chen. I really don't need any more closeups of his motorized scooter (unless we see it ramming into Hanyu).

 

[nlloyd]

Because neither was represented by Yuna Kim's mother and because most Chinese and Japanese fans have other things to do with their lives besides hatching konspiracy theories.

Do you have any other questions?

I'm really uncomfortable with how Korean fans are being viewed as a single, homogeneous group. I think these characterizations foster racism. The social media posts of crazed individuals do not exemplify a whole group of fans or a whole nation of individuals. If they did, we would have to write off the fans of many nationalities.

 

[overedge]

. I also hope it shifts the focus away just a touch from the miracle that is Nathan Chen. I really don't need any more closeups of his motorized scooter (unless we see it ramming into Hanyu).

 

[Bonita]

I can't believe this was on my local news tonight. Make it stopppppp ....

 

[missing]

I am pretty sure Americans are not bullying and harassing a skater on Instagram. We are having a discussion on a skating forum.

We might be having a discussion (fairly onesided) on a skating board, but that doesn't mean Americans aren't bullying and harassing a skater on Instagram.

I'd be genuinely startled to find all the boorish internet behavior has been limited to Eunsoo's fans.

 

[becca]

I can't believe this was on my local news tonight. Make it stopppppp ....

Our 24/7 news cycle found a new viral story!!!! Personally It’s ridiculous how people get tried and convicted quickly.

I think Americans are capable of being crazies but I don’t think enough care about skating or Mariah. I don’t mean it in a bad way. It’s just Mariah is not Michelle Kwan and has never been really hyped.

 

[Vagabond]

I'm really uncomfortable with how Korean fans are being viewed as a single, homogeneous group. I think these characterizations foster racism.

While I agree that it is wrong to lump every single South Korean fan in the same group, I also think that if you want to look at characterizations that foster racism, you should start with the xenophobic attitudes of various South Korean athletes, fans, sports management agencies, and "news" outlets described in these thread, particularly the U.S. Ladies threads.

And it strikes me as a particularly South Korean problem, by the way. I can't think of any overseas Korean or North Korean athletes who whinge about being cheated by referees and judges. Can you?

 

[missing]

Serious question: Why didnt the Hanyu/Yan MAJOR accident garner attention anywhere near as this?????

Is it because since it wasnt a crash into one another than it was premeditated????

The agency (if) creating fake news should be heavily reprimanded, sued.

Also how would the agency know whats happening in a locker room on the other side of the planet?

So someone said the agency is owned by Yuna's mother and Yuna is the one who suggested to her to use Somewhere In Time. Is it safe to say Yuna's family is invested in Lim for better or worse????

It just went and reported "news" without doing any investigating, asking questions or verifying sources. Thus its not news. Its clickbait as Rippon said.

ISU should say to Lim's team if you continue to participate in ISU sanctioned events going forward you are not allowed to use this agency as "representation."

This is very serious.... just like the Coughlin thing.. "journalists" go and put stories out there without any investigations and bam we have a suicide.

This season.... uggg......

Serious answer: Hanyu/Han happened before a Grand Prix event, not a World Championship. It involved 2 men, not pretty young women in short skirts. And for all I know, it got more attention in Japan and China than we were aware of.

Also as figure skating fans, we're more aware of the coverage. MSNBC seemed to be a lot more focused on waiting for the Muller report. My guess is ESPN devoted considerably more attention to college basketball.

We like a sport that favors pretty young girls and women, who accent their attractiveness with flattering and revealing costumes and on occasion very heavy makeup. We like that they are slender. We enjoy the mix of strength and vulnerability. We do not necessarily speak well of skaters who gain weight or who have unattractive hairstyles.

I don't think any of this controversy is particularly important and I doubt it will remain in the public eye past Sunday.

 

[nlloyd]

What a whinning bitches. Either you submit a formal complain or you just STFU about it. Shitty people.

As far as we know, all that the KSU did was report the incident to the ISU. How is that a problem? For all we know they were hoping to avoid a scandal by not laying an official complaint.

It is really troubling the way in which the egregious actions of the ATS has seeped into characterizations of the KSU, Eunsoo, her parents, *all* her fans, etc. The ATS has acted highly irresponsibly and their actions have led to awful, misleading media exposure for Mariah, and they should be held to account in the most rigorous way, but Eunsoo's reputation will likely also be adversely affected in skating circles for a long time to come and she did not orchestrate the ATS' response. She is not responsible for their actions. She may have made a mistake in not moving away from Bell, but it was an accident. It happens on a fairly regular basis at high-stakes competitions -- I don't think posters have taken into account the stress of worlds, the focus required to avoid distractions, and the fact that this is not just a daily practice at the local rink.

We are all figure skating fans and we know the time, dedication, and sacrifice it takes for a skater to make it to worlds. It is a tragedy that all the hard work of these two young women has been overshadowed by a reckless sports management agency, and that their response will likely adversely affect Bell and Lim for some time to come.

 

[Frau Muller]

All that matters for NBC is to get more eyeballs on that TV screen tonight...and if they can also sell a few more tickets to Stars on Ice, then all the merrier.

 

[nlloyd]

While I agree that it is wrong to lump every single South Korean fan in the same group, I also think that iIf you want to look at characterizations that foster racism, I suggest you start with the xenophobic attitudes of various South Korean athletes, fans, sports management agencies, and "news" outlets described in these thread, particularly the U.S. Ladies threads.

And it strikes me as a particularly South Korean problem, by the way. I can't think of any overseas Korean or North Korean athletes who whinge about being cheated by referees and judges. Can you?

I have read that thread, but don't see clear examples of xenophobia by South Korean athletes and sports management agencies. When you speak of fans and "news" outlets, it seems to me you are referencing social media and tabloid journalism (hence the quotation marks). In my opinion, that is the problem: social media and tabloid journalism are being given too much credit, even by formerly reputable news outlets such as WaPo. What is posted on social media is picked up by the tabloids, bleeds into the legitimate media and influences characterizations of athletes, sports agencies, and South Koreans in general. Even if what you say was true, however, it does not make xenophobia on this thread any more acceptable.

 

[snoopy]

We’ve called Canadian skating fans whiners for years. Decades really. Nobody complained about that except Canadians. If Korean fans want to vie for the title......

 

[fsfann]

While I agree that it is wrong to lump every single South Korean fan in the same group, I also think that iIf you want to look at characterizations that foster racism, I suggest you start with the xenophobic attitudes of various South Korean athletes, fans, sports management agencies, and "news" outlets described in these thread, particularly the U.S. Ladies threads.

And it strikes me as a particularly South Korean problem, by the way. I can't think of any overseas Korean or North Korean athletes who whinge about being cheated by referees and judges. Can you?

totally agree with this. Call me racist if you want, but the South Korean "crazy" fans have a long established reputation of going crazy on social media. I have been to South Korea and have met many wonderful South Koreans, so it is no reflection them... BUT you can't deny the insane people from SK who go bat-$hit crazy online when they feel wronged. Think of YuNa (Olympics was it? or Worlds?). In speed skating... when the Korean was DQ'd and the Canadian was awarded the bronze medal. She had multiple threats made against her life. She did nothing wrong, other than being promoted to bronze because the Korean was disqualified. They have a long history of this behaviour, and this thing with Mariah Bell appears to be no different.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

wrong thread

 

[MsZem]

I f-g hate social media so much, it's a cancer in society that gives us nothing but hate and fake celebrity BS. If you can't say it to my face, I'm not listening.

I know people like to complain about social media, but hate, rumors and celebrity BS all existed before Facebook and Twitter. A lot of the issues here involve traditional media reporting irresponsibly and people being jerks. Both these things predate social media.

On the flip side, Humans of New York is currently focusing on the Special Olympics, and his followers have raised millions for good causes. Just last week Twitter followers of a musher in the Iditarod banded together to fund over 100 educational projects in Alaska. The ice bucket challenge may have seemed silly, but the money it raised for ALS research was not.

People use social media to stay in touch and offer social support - sometimes the kind people are not getting IRL (remember "It Gets Better"?). It's used to accomplish good things like finding homes for pets and crowdsourcing ideas and knowledge, from skaters asking for music suggestions to David Fahrenthold getting help from his Twitter followers in his investigation of Trump's charity. All these things have value.

Social media can, of course, amplify bad things as well - which is what we're seeing here: fake news, bullying and abuse. But social media is not in itself bad or good, it's how people use it that makes it so. There was no need for so many people to pile on Justine (before or after she landed) and there is no excuse for the abuse targeted at Bell now. But that's the responsibility of those involved. They could just as easily follow the lead of Tran and Meite.

 

[Amantide]

As far as we know, all that the KSU did was report the incident to the ISU. How is that a problem? For all we know they were hoping to avoid a scandal by not laying an official complaint.

Report what though? According to ISU statement "Based on the evidence at hand at this point in time, which includes a video, there is no evidence that Ms. Bell intended any harm to Ms. Lim." You telling me that the KSU reported the incident without seeing the evidence, video included?
If that's the case it's even worse than I thought. But I'm giving them the "benefit of the doubt" and say they did, and by reporting it to the ISU, it is obvious that they thought there were basis for some wrongdoing from Mariah. Wrongdoing that apparently wasn't there. By reporting it but not making an official complain they were half accusing her. Sort of "We think so, but we are not sure" attitude.

Now, you do not go around accusing or half accusing anybody because that's damaging for the skater's reputation (Mariah). Not to mention the stress you are causing to both skaters. Either you are convinced she intended to cause harm, based on evidence - in that case you submit an official complain - or you shut up about it and move on.

It is really troubling the way in which the egregious actions of the ATS has seeped into characterizations of the KSU, Eunsoo, her parents, *all* her fans, etc. The ATS has acted highly irresponsibly and their actions have led to awful, misleading media exposure for Mariah, and they should be held to account in the most rigorous way, but Eunsoo's reputation will likely also be adversely affected in skating circles for a long time to come and she did not orchestrate the ATS' response. She is not responsible for their actions. She may have made a mistake in not moving away from Bell, but it was an accident. It happens on a fairly regular basis at high-stakes competitions -- I don't think posters have taken into account the stress of worlds, the focus required to avoid distractions, and the fact that this is not just a daily practice at the local rink.

ATS actions were dispicable. But I'm not sure why are you "defending" Eunsoo to me since I didn't blame or even mentioned her. I don't know what she&her mom did or didn't do, so I left them out of this. My issues are with KSU, ATS and those Korean nutters who attacked Mariah and her relatives in social media.

 

[misskarne]

Just to really hit home how damaging ATS' behavior has been:

I met up with my sister tonight. One of the first things she asked me: "So I was reading [the paper] today and I saw an article...what's up with the crazy American skater who attacked the other skater?"

I proceeded to give her a blow-by-blow rundown of how that is definitely not what happened. But this is what ATS have done. That is the damage they are doing.

 

[starrynight]

Just to really hit home how damaging ATS' behavior has been:

I met up with my sister tonight. One of the first things she asked me: "So I was reading [the paper] today and I saw an article...what's up with the crazy American skater who attacked the other skater?"

I proceeded to give her a blow-by-blow rundown of how that is definitely not what happened. But this is what ATS have done. That is the damage they are doing.

Yeah a guy who works in my office in Australia also told me he’d read that a skater attacked another skater at worlds.

It’s certainly spread majorly.

 

[JamieElena]

THIS. I'm beginning to question whether Bell even touched Lim too. No blood on the ice, no blood in the vid of her getting first aid right after. Only pics are of a bandage. Have we seen any pics of the actual cut? Unfortunately because ATS has been shown to seriously exaggerate things, I'm not buying she was actually cut until I see a photo. Sorry, not sorry. I will stand corrected should a reliable picture ever surface.

That video from NBC is super weird. Lim doesn't react to Mariah until Mariah is well past her, like 6 feet away and then Lim grabs her leg. If they even touched, it must have been the slightest of grazes, because otherwise both of them would have tripped, and Mariah didn't react at all.

Looking at the picture of Mariah with her leg extended at 0:23, she's at least 3 feet away. Exactly how long are her legs? It must have been her right leg that hit Lim? But it looks really far away and extended straight back, not out to the side. Mariah was also skating backwards as she approached Lim, she turned forward right at the last second.

It's on Kelly Rippon's page: https://twitter.com/AuthenticChange

 

[Skittl1321]

Just to really hit home how damaging ATS' behavior has been:

I met up with my sister tonight. One of the first things she asked me: "So I was reading [the paper] today and I saw an article...what's up with the crazy American skater who attacked the other skater?"

I proceeded to give her a blow-by-blow rundown of how that is definitely not what happened. But this is what ATS have done. That is the damage they are doing.

My husband said the same thing.

I asked him to act out what he thought happened.He mimicked skating towards me, stopped, kicked me with his heel.

I acted out back crossovers, stepping forward, and extending the leg.

His response "seriously? That's news?"

 

[Rainbow]

THIS. I'm beginning to question whether Bell even touched Lim too. No blood on the ice, no blood in the vid of her getting first aid right after. Only pics are of a bandage. Have we seen any pics of the actual cut? Unfortunately because ATS has been shown to seriously exaggerate things, I'm not buying she was actually cut until I see a photo. Sorry, not sorry. I will stand corrected should a reliable picture ever surface.

Also weird is, that Raf and statements from Lims camp are talking about an injury to the shin, yet the patch in the SP was on her calf. Either a language problem or the whole thing doesn`t add up.

 

[barbarafan]

Also weird is, that Raf and statements from Lims camp are talking about an injury to the shin, yet the patch in the SP was on her calf. Either a language problem or the whole thing doesn`t add up.

Was Raf even at the practice? Why was he not watching the girls? When he saw Mariah approaching quickly and Eun Soo not reacting why did he not call out? Eun Soo then immediately left the rink..did he not check with her what was up?Maybe it would have been discussed with him if he had made himself a part of her team and found out what was up. RAF is one of my favorite coaches and I am very disappointed in this.

 

[hanca]

Was Raf even at the practice? Why was he not watching the girls? When he saw Mariah approaching quickly and Eun Soo not reacting why did he not call out? Eun Soo then immediately left the rink..did he not check with her what was up?Maybe it would have been discussed with him if he had made himself a part of her team and found out what was up. RAF is one of my favorite coaches and I am very disappointed in this.

So now you are blaming the coach? It is the skaters responsibility to give way to whoever is doing their run through with their music on, not the coach’s responsibility to watch on behalf of a skater who couldn’t be bothered to look out. According to the rink’s rules about priority, it is pretty clear whose fault it is, so why do you keep trying to assign blame elsewhere except where it should be according to the rules?

 

[MsZem]

Was Raf even at the practice? Why was he not watching the girls?

Maybe he was with Nathan.

And they're not "girls", they are athletes.

 

[4skating]

"Good Morning America" just teased a segment on this morning's show. I can see (dimly) a reason for NBC to be doing news stories on the incident, but ABC? Probably by Christine Brennan, too.

 

[MsZem]

"Good Morning America" just teased a segment on this morning's show. I can see (dimly) a reason for NBC to be doing news stories on the incident, but ABC? Probably by Christine Brennan, too.

Here's Brennan's take on the controversy.

I don't even like Brennan's work, but it took me about three seconds to confirm that she wasn't sensationalizing the incident - because unlike most of those covering it, she actually knows how skating works.