From Russia With Love (No 32): Spring to Summer 2019

Rina RUS

Well-Known Member
Messages
721
Ratings
734
I find it disturbing how Russian girls, their coaches and even some fans are glorifying disordered eating.
You know... I don't say you all are wrong. Yet I also can't say, that Tarasova is wrong, when she says, that jumping can be even dangerous for a skater who is really heavy ("Dangerous for one's bands, dangerous for one's joints. /.../ It is like taking a huge bag in the morning - 20 kilograms - and walking with it, jumping with it in a training. /.../ Yet they can't say this in America. They have no right to say. A coach has no right to say. Nobody has."). Yes, they did talk about Gracie Gold's current weight, even though they didn't dare to say the word "weight".

You may say Gold isn't a kid. This is right.
Yet... maybe there is no right answer. These people brake their bones, maybe even venture their lives (in the pair skating) - but even after that they say they are not offended. Many people here are happy to see little kids starting to skate, but I really liked to hear, that Yagudin and Totmianina didn't want their daughter to become a skater. His words were too reasonable:
"not many are as successful as me or Zhenya. Millions of children do sports. Many of them maybe not ruin their health, but do cross that line, when the sport demands more than their body can give, and they can't win. So as for education, their education isn't very good and as for sport, they didn't succeed to win. Yet I'm lucky. I'm lucky, because the sport bent to me, and I have many opportunities in my life thanks to the Olympic title, so I am not offended."

It is possible to say, that those people who are happy to see little kids starting to skate, to jump, are cruel too. May I say so? Maybe it would be wrong. Actually, even Yagudin and Totmianina still can't be categorical. He was saying they could let their daughter do gymnastics ("so that she could stretch out a little bit, could throw those balls and ribbons"), now they even say about their second girl, that skating is possible, even though they are not going to make their kid practice intensively.

It's easy to judge others, isn't it?
 
Last edited:

zebraswan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,041
Ratings
2,568
I will be surprised if any top skater goes to Plushenko again. The school just seems like a vanity project, much like his child. Maybe he doesn't want Sasha to see what really lies ahead for him, lol. And while there's nothing forbidding Plushenko from saying whatever he wants to say about a former student, we are (as usual) only hearing one side of the story. He doesn't have a single sustained success story so far with any of the high profile skaters that passed through his rink. It's just a revolving door. He gets PR for a little while and they're gone in a few months as soon as they hit a rough patch.

As a coach you have to learn to deal with all kinds of personalities and temperaments. The best skaters are not always going to be the most easy going and amenable to work with...so do you want someone who has the potential to be brilliant, or do you just want students who will pay your bills? I guess we know the answer for Plushenko. Well, it's his private rink and he has the right, of course. I just hope nobody else makes the mistake of going to him for serious coaching.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C
Messages
46,648
Ratings
32,671
God some of these posts are ignorant. I was going to say disgusting but ignorant is more charitable. So here's some enlightenment:

1.People with eating disorders *commonly* make a big show about eating food or serving food, posing with food, talking about how stuffed they are from delicious food etc. That's ED 101. "Oh look they post about food all the time they aren't starving themselves" is an idiotic argument to make.

2. Athletes being on special diets designed by knowledgeable nutritionists to make sure they are getting adequate calories and nutritional food and the vitamins/minerals/protein/fluids they need to perform optimally and fuel their (in most cases still growing) bodies is normal. Food and fluid restriction is not, and is harmful physically and in some ways more importantly *psychologically* and can have long term and sometimes lifelong ramifications for young athletes.

3. Athletes spitting out water in case it increases their weight and weighing themselves 3 times a day HAVE FULL BLOWN EATING DISORDERS and need intervention stat, not admiration for being so tough or committed.

4. Telling young athletes they are overweight, pressuring young athletes to stay extremely thin, indoctrinating young athletes into believing that their performance hinges on every last ounce is an excellent way to make sure a huge percentage of your young charges are irreversibly damaged psychologically, develop warped relationships with food/eating, and are gifted with a lifelong curse of body dysmorphia.

5. Yes there is a predisposition to anorexia and other eating disorders just like there's a predisposition to alcoholism, but that predisposition includes traits like being perfectionists and people-pleasers which means skaters are already a self-selected group with tendencies towards them.

6. I'm not going to go digging through the scientific literature right now because I am not in the mood but many reputable studies have shown that when people are given inadequate amounts of food over a period of time *for any reason* their brain chemistry changes and often develop eating disorders or at the very least screwed up relationships to food after the period of starvation has ended. So congrats to Eteri and any other coaches from any country who create similar regiments/environments/attitudes for increasing the odds even more that their skaters will be permanently damaged.
If our posts are ignorant, yours is arrogant.

You could have posted the information without looking down on other posters.
 

Rina RUS

Well-Known Member
Messages
721
Ratings
734
I will be surprised if any top skater goes to Plushenko again. /.../ As a coach you have to learn to deal with all kinds of personalities and temperaments.
It's easy to judge, isn't it?

Who knows. Anyway, Evgeni is young as a coach, isn't he? Maybe he learns.

As for Sasha... I really liked, when they all started to help him to work on his diction. He started to talk better. And those videos were nice. :)

Maybe he doesn't want Sasha to see what really lies ahead for him, lol.
"lol"?? Aren't you talking about a kid?
 

zebraswan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,041
Ratings
2,568
It's easy to judge, isn't it?

Who knows. Anyway, Evgeni is young as a coach, isn't he? Maybe he learns.

As for Sasha... I really liked, when they all started to help him to work on his diction. He started to talk better. And those videos were nice. :)



"lol"?? Aren't you talking about a kid?
I'll judge him by whatever he puts out in the media. Yes, it's easy to do because his PR machine is working all the time.

There are many young coaches who don't run their mouths off about their students in the media. The vast majority of them are very professional and tactful. I don't think this has anything to do with a lack of experience, it's a character issue. Plenty of young skaters know enough to be respectful of their peers and coaches (present or former) in the media. I don't like it when Eteri does it either, but at least she has gotten good results with the skaters that stick around long enough. Plushenko is still a nobody as a coach (and will probably stay that way until his little clone grows up).

And actually, I feel very sorry for Sasha. The joke is that his parents have been exploiting him from day 1...yeah, not really funny, you're right.
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
722
Ratings
1,038
Interesting that both Sakhanovich and Tarakanova have both left Plushenko after a relatively short period of time. Also, I think one of his main coaches (Lavrenchuk) left last year, too.

BTW, the Angels of Plushenko homepage is one of the creepiest things I've seen in quite some time. :yikes: Although I guess the illustration is somewhat fitting. :shuffle:

New coaches and experienced coaches alike both seem to struggle with this verbal incontinence. Plushenko and Trankov are just the newest exhibits of tactlessness. All Plushenko has to tell the public now are her dress size and vital statistics. Trankov was mumbling some rubbish on his instagram and in interviews about ungratefulness blah, blah, blah, big cry babies the whole lot of them. But apparently it's a Russian style, it's like they have very few tools in the bag. Popova's former coach was ghastly. Zhulin has toned down only a bit but in his heyday he was no different. Zueva went out of her way to tell the world just how "stale V/M had become and that they'd need to be transformed" yada, yada, yada. It's tiresome to say the least. :rolleyes:
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,870
Ratings
9,861
Anastasia Tarakanova’s farewell to Plushenko and explanation
https://www.instagram.com/p/BwTgwO3nafP/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=9uyjumpmqzj7

Yes, I did not want to make any comments about my departure, and my parents forbade me to do so and to post on social media any answers. But last night I read the comments from Evgeny Viktorovich, and was very sad. Nobody kicked me out. Why did he say that! I respect him so very much, as an athlete he reached such heights, one can only dream of such! He helped me so much, took me into his school, gave me a chance to continue skating. He even found a financial sponsor who paid for my training. My reason for switching is not how Evegeny Viktorovich desribed…. We discussed and talked for a long time, with management and with my immediate coach, Ksenya Semenovna, that my ice time is 2x less than my competition, that the group is full. And the rink size itself is very small, I am not used to it, I miss the standard size. I was promised back in February to have an access to another rink, but it did not happen.

At the Academy I started to learn quads and 3A. I managed sometimes, not too badly, but yes, not very stably, and yes, I became upset, but I did not do anything criminal. On the contrary many gave me support. I did very well with jumps on the hand-held longia, with Amir Rafaeliovich, but he was not assigned to me very often, and with other coaches I was getting hurt. Getting hurt and crying is just part of training, it happens. I am not an exception.

It saddens me to read such commentary, because mentally, as many noted, during this past year I have matured and becoming different. I simply think that Evgeny Viktorovich just gave me a general assessment that reflects my character in theory. But none the less, I respect him and wish him well/success.

P.S. We (me and parents) decided to switch back in March (2019), so I came up to Ksenya Semenovna and told it to her, and she understood me and supported me, and said go and think about it, and when Evegeny Viktorovich returns from vacation, then come. So that’s what we did.

When he returned, me and mother came with a bouquet of flowers, and when Evgeny Viktorovich saw me with a flower bouquet, he knew immediately, and wished me good luck.

Please forgive me, Evgeny Viktorovich, for what I may have done to hurt You. You gave me so much I did my best under Your supervision. Why I returned to Svetlana Vladimirovna I will not comment on here.
 

hanca

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,480
Ratings
7,152
Wow, this young teenager has shown how to part and stay classy. Pity that her adult coach did not manage the same. Clearly, fame got into his head.
 

Rina RUS

Well-Known Member
Messages
721
Ratings
734
There are many young coaches who don't run their mouths off about their students in the media.
There are many young coaches who are not asked about their work. Well, maybe we would like everyone to be better, yet... Tarasova isn't perfectly nice. Mishin isn't perfectly nice. One can become a strong coach, even if he doesn't manage to be perfectly nice.

big cry babies the whole lot of them. But apparently it's a Russian style, it's like they have very few tools in the bag.
Anything else? :)
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
722
Ratings
1,038
There are many young coaches who are not asked about their work. Well, maybe we would like everyone to be better, yet... Tarasova isn't perfectly nice. Mishin isn't perfectly nice. One can become a strong coach, even if he doesn't manage to be perfectly nice.



Anything else? :)
Give me time it'll come. :p:D
 
Last edited:

zebraswan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,041
Ratings
2,568
After reading Tarakanova's side of what happened, I loathe him even more. What a piece of trash. Coaches are not perfect, they make mistakes. I've said it here plenty of times. But he isn't qualified to coach at all, from what I've seen. Straight up spreading lies about a 15-year-old girl is beyond the pale. He never even went to one competition with her. Eteri goes too far sometimes, no question, but this is a whole other level of poor taste. By the way, I read some comments that he didn't allow skaters from CSKA or Sambo to compete at his little vanity competition at the school. Why, because they could have beaten his son? I mean...it's laughable that anyone would consider him a serious coach now.

I haven't seen anything from Trankov that compares to this. Almost every time he talked about coaching, he was criticizing himself. Never the skaters. He said he doesn't feel up to the job and he lacks qualifications. Nevertheless, he put in the time and effort like he promised he would this season, and T/M still want to work with him. 100% opposite of Plushenko and his ego. Or Aliona who dumped her skaters at the start of the GP. Not sure what he did to Bigbird, but at least get your facts straight.
 

Rina RUS

Well-Known Member
Messages
721
Ratings
734
Coaches are not perfect, they make mistakes. I've said it here plenty of times.
:) Thank you.

I haven't seen anything from Trankov that compares to this. Almost every time he talked about coaching, he was criticizing himself.
By the way, Trankov has a funny nickname in his instagram (xam_trankov). We read not "ksam_trankov", but "kham_trankov". My dictionary thinks, that "a boor" should be a good translation for the word "kham". :)

Kovtun's nickname is funny too. Even Tarasova is just "Tatiana Tarasova" (not "Tatiana Anatolievna"), Kovtun seems to be the only one who respects himself so much, that his nickname is maksim_pavlovich. :)

I like this girl so much.
Her passion can be beautiful. (if you mean Tarakanova) It is a rare feature. It would be interesting to see her.
 

Eislauffan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,362
Ratings
4,122
Euros was not the exception. All his Grand Prix events, Russian nationals, euros. He was totally amazing. Now he’s like a lesser lutai
No, I wouldn't say that Alexander Samarin was "amazing" in all those competitions. He did well at Euros and he was okay in one GP, not so good in the other one. At his Challenger events and at Nationals he placed behind Mikhail Kolyada and/or Maxim Kovtun or both. At the beginning of the season he was coming back from a long break after injury and surgery. He just had two good days at Euros, but he is not more consistent than the other Russian men.
 

caseyedwards

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,037
Ratings
2,657
No, I wouldn't say that Alexander Samarin was "amazing" in all those competitions. He did well at Euros and he was okay in one GP, not so good in the other one. At his Challenger events and at Nationals he placed behind Mikhail Kolyada and/or Maxim Kovtun or both. At the beginning of the season he was coming back from a long break after injury and surgery. He just had two good days at Euros, but he is not more consistent than the other Russian men.
Samarin was the second alternate to the GPF! Some people were even afraid he’d get to go. Two say his whole season was only “2 good days at euros” is incorrect! He lost to absolute peak kovtun! Not a bad kovtun. Samarin was amazing until post euros.
 

Doggygirl

Rooting for the underdogs!
Messages
9,134
Ratings
6,725
God some of these posts are ignorant. I was going to say disgusting but ignorant is more charitable. So here's some enlightenment:

WHOLE POST....
Thank you for aticulating what I haven't been able to. I encourage anyone and everyone who is not knowledgeable about eating disorders refrain from posting about how certain you are that the food/fluid restriction comments of these young athletes are not a big deal. This is a very big deal, as @bladesofgorey stated, with potentially LIFE LONG CONSEQUENCES. I speak with passion and first hand experience about this. Just because weight concern / food & fluid restriction has been practiced in sports for a long time does NOT mean it's healthy. Please do some research before assuming and pontificating that these practices are not harmful.
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,870
Ratings
9,861
:D Plushenko seems to be having a very verbal "off season" and on a roll.....

Plushenko: "Our men are pamper themselves too much. Take Kolyada for example. He should go to Mishin. Mishin will be happy to take him".
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1073719136.html

Mishin: not a happy camper... "I don't recall ever extending an invitation to Kolyada. An athlete should decided for himself where to train".
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1073727077.html

Plushenko: brags to the press "A girl from Tutberidze's school, Titova, joined my school. In 6 weeks she learned how to do all the triples".
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1073722334.html
(Sofia Titova actually never trained with Tutberidze, she was at Sambo-70 for less than a year, in kids' group, left when she was 9).

(Irina Rodnina accuses Plushenko of destroying the Russian Men Figure skating (because he was in the lead for so long, that it discouraged others to have any hope to make it to number #1 Russian).
Plushenko: "Rodnina thinks it is my fault, because i dominated for so long, but she is wrong. Why is she saying this?"
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1073712890.html

Tatiana Tarasova: "All my students were upset at me because i would not let them participate and consult with them about the programmes. Yet what i picked for them was the best of the best. When i decided on something, i never changed my mind. And it was right. At first they would be mad, then they learned to become one with the music."
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1073712988.html

Tamara Moskvina's group and the rink are evacuated because of a bomb thread.
At 14:30 during practice all were asked to leave the building in fear of explosion.
Police are investigating.
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1073724589.html
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
722
Ratings
1,038
These people just sound psychotic, it's almost like the bacchanal you hear in parliament in Trinidad and Tobago, surreal, or Carnival. Is it so hard to have a private, reasonable conversation, without involving the press? Why is it so important to even announce everything in the press or show us everything on IG? Is there no room for a little dignity?
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,870
Ratings
9,861
What's this about Med having health problems? It was mentioned in the Oksana Baiul thread.
That's is getting interesting too. I'll post some links if you or anyone want..

but in a nutshell:
- first she tells the press that she fell at WC during warm-up, hurt her hip and skated on pain shots.
- then she shows up at the reception dinner in 7" hills (so her fans are "wow"! what about the pain).
- then she skates in Japan's shows.
- then she gives an interview "i am in pain".
- then she announces she is planning to start to work on Quads this season.
- then she gives an interview "i am in pain, will skate shows without jumps".
- and another interview "I am not skating at all now, hip/something hurts. I am in Moscow, just having fun and going to cafes with my friends. don't know when i will resume skating."
- now she is in Korea in a show.
(Orser has not commented, at least in the Russian press. The articles that publish her stories, sometimes paraphrase, and give summaries.)

Here are few easy to find ones.
"Medvedeva will not be able to jump for a long time because of the injury"
https://sport.rambler.ru/figureskating/42030482-medvedeva-mne-esche-dolg

"At present i hardly skate"
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1073623090.html

"At the WC i skated injured, i still can not jump. Presently i practically am not skating, and will not be able to try any jumps for a long time". https://www.rusdialog.ru/sport/174653_1555238615
 
Last edited:

annie_mg

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,072
Ratings
1,077
That's is getting interesting too. I'll post some links if you or anyone want..

but in a nutshell:
- first she tells the press that she fell at WC during warm-up, hurt her hip and skated on pain shots.
- then she shows up at the reception dinner in 7" hills (so her fans are "wow"! what about the pain).
- then she skates in Japan's shows.
- then she gives an interview "i am in pain".
- then she announces she is planning to start to work on Quads this season.
- then she gives an interview "i am in pain, will skate shows without jumps".
- and another interview "I am not skating at all now, hip/something hurts. I am in Moscow, just having fun and going to cafes with my friends. don't know when i will resume skating."
- now she is in Korea in a show.
(Orser has not commented, at least in the Russian press. The articles that publish her stories, sometimes paraphrase, and give summaries.)

Here are few easy to find ones.
"Medvedeva will not be able to jump for a long time because of the injury"
https://sport.rambler.ru/figureskating/42030482-medvedeva-mne-esche-dolg

"At present i hardly skate"
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1073623090.html

"At the WC i skated injured, i still can not jump. Presently i practically am not skating, and will not be able to try any jumps for a long time". https://www.rusdialog.ru/sport/174653_1555238615
Waiting for your conclusion on how she's a lying manipulative b**** any moment now.
 

Eislauffan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,362
Ratings
4,122
:D Plushenko seems to be having a very verbal "off season" and on a roll.....

Plushenko: "Our men are pamper themselves too much. Take Kolyada for example. He should go to Mishin. Mishin will be happy to take him".
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1073719136.html

Mishin: not a happy camper... "I don't recall ever extending an invitation to Kolyada. An athlete should decided for himself where to train".
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1073727077.html
Ah, sports.ru makes several "news" out of one interview with Evgeni Plushenko. :D Alexei Mishin actually doesn't like to take grown up athletes (notable exceptions were Carolina Kostner - and she didn't train full-time with him - and earlier Elena Sokolova). But most of his students started to train with him or in his group when they were very young.
Interesting though when Mishin says that an athlete should decide himself where to train. So if Mikhail Kolyada (or another senior-level skater) wants to be coached by Mishin, would he take them? Mishin has his hands quite full at this moment, but he likes challenges.
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
722
Ratings
1,038
Waiting for your conclusion on how she's a lying manipulative b**** any moment now.

Desperate sounding would be more apt. There needs to be help for athletes to make that transition from competitive skating to having a real life, across all types of sports, many athletes seem to struggle with making that transition. Pity.
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,870
Ratings
9,861
Interesting though when Mishin says that an athlete should decide himself where to train. So if Mikhail Kolyada (or another senior-level skater) wants to be coached by Mishin, would he take them? Mishin has his hands quite full at this moment, but he likes challenges.
That would be a tough one to know in advance until it happens. I see many pros and cons, as far as Mishin's position and goals..
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 10, Guests: 10)

Top