From Russia With Love (No 32): Spring to Summer 2019

Wyliefan

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,208
Well, at least Julia figured out she had one and got treatment for it, thank God. So there must be some level of awareness there.
 

Perky Shae Lynn

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,868
She still look slike a 14 yo teenager. She didn't get through puberty (!) with Eteri. Eteri can deliver results, but Elizabeta is not her final product. The foundations were worked on by Orser. Eteri sure gave her the consistency and competitveness, kudos to her, but I don't see Tursynbaeva as her product at all.
I don't think Elizabeta has gone through puberty. We will see a total different young woman when she retires.
 

Perky Shae Lynn

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,868
Not in Russia I think. I also follow gymnastics and every 3rd comment the coaches make has to do with the girls' weight. So this makes me think that it's a cultural thing and you're expected to starve as an athlete...And that in any case eating disorders in athletes aren't viewed as such. I hope I'm wrong, but it sure looks like that.
I am not sure I agree. Svetlana Boguinskaya had a woman's body when she competed. Aliya Mustafina and a few other Russian gymnasts are / were more womanly than American girls, for example. Liza Tut and Sofia Samodurova look well-conditioned and perfectly healthy. Regardless of whether it's cultural or not, starving young girls under a flag of "maintaining a fighting sports weight" is absolutely sick.
 

Domshabfan

A proud P/C fan
Messages
8,804
I don't think Elizabeta has gone through puberty. We will see a total different young woman when she retires.
She is just tiny, there are plenty of asian women who look like that even in their 30s, are you suggesting that Satoko also has not gone through puberty ?
 

NAOTMAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
623
Skaters/gymnasts and coaches from all around the world obsess over athletes weight. Different is they keep it in the background and don't talk about it openly like the Russians do. After Gracie and the American ice dancer (I forgot her name) I can't believe people are still acting like it's some epidemic that's only happening in Russia. It's a terrible thing happening world wide for decades! :wall:
 

Perky Shae Lynn

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,868
Skaters/gymnasts and coaches from all around the world obsess over athletes weight. Different is they keep it in the background and don't talk about it openly like the Russians do. After Gracie and the American ice dancer (I forgot her name) I can't believe people are still acting like it's some epidemic that's only happening in Russia. It's a terrible thing happening world wide for decades! :wall:
Yes, it is. And it's time to do something about it. Shoving it under the rug is wrong. But for some people, the end justifies the means. That's the gist of this whole conversation. And no, this is not just a Russian problem.
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,172
I find it disturbing how Russian girls, their coaches and even some fans are glorifying disordered eating.

Maybe it is time for ISU to step in before clinic are filled with sickly little starved girls who closed their mouths and used water as occasional treat.... because that's what the pretty girl with medals is doing.
:D "Jews are rich because they trick people", "Asians have the highest test scores because all they do is study and have no life", the hyperboles about the "horrors of Russian figure skating and Tutberidze team" that are mostly invented.... :lol: Solution: one should check why he/she or his/hers is not succeeding... ;) instead of either spreading lies, or exaggerations.

---
Plushenko/Tarakanova situation is not going in the right direction..
https://rsport.ria.ru/20190415/1552708078.html

Plushenko said that Tarakanova had to leave because of overbearing emotions/hysterics.
Анастасия Тараканова покинула его академию из-за чрезмерной эмоциональности.

"Настя не смогла, на мой взгляд, перестроиться. Я просил ее не психовать на льду, но она срывалась. Что-то не получается, и она начинает кричать и плакать, устраивать истерики. Я ей объяснял, что если она будет продолжать так же относиться к тренировочному процессу, мы будем вынуждены расстаться. Но она продолжала показывать нервозность, постоянно ревела, после чего я решил пообщаться с родителями на тему смены тренерского коллектива", - рассказал специалист."

"Natsya could not, in my opinion, adopt. I asked her not to freak out on the ice, but she would let it all out (went off the deep end). If something did not go right, she would scream and cry, became hysterical. I explained to her, if she continues to treat the training process in such manner, we'll have to part. Yet she continued to behave anxious, constantly sobbing, so i had to discuss with her parents a change of training team."

"Одно время Настя смогла поменять отношение к делу, мы неплохо провели сезон, - продолжил Плющенко. – Но сезон закончился, и я ей сказал, что нужно работать над усложнением, учить аксель в три с половиной оборота, четверные прыжки. Она пробовала заходить на тот же аксель, но делала восемь одинарных прыжков и начинала плакать. На это всё смотрят другие дети группы, и это при том, что Тараканова у нас была лидером. После неоднократных бесед мы решили расстаться".

"At one point Nastya managed to change her attitude, and we had no so bad of a season. But the season was over, and i told her that we need to work on increasing the difficulty, to start learning the 3A, quads. She tried to make entries into an axel, but instead did 8 singles in a row and would start to cry. And all the little kids in our group would watch this, given that Tarakanova was the group's leader. After many conversations we decided to part".
 

hanca

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,570
:D "Jews are rich because they trick people", "Asians have the highest test scores because all they do is study and have no life", the hyperboles about the "horrors of Russian figure skating and Tutberidze team" that are mostly invented.... :lol: Solution: one should check why he/she or his/hers is not succeeding... ;) instead of either spreading lies, or exaggerations.

---
Plushenko/Tarakanova situation is not going in the right direction..
https://rsport.ria.ru/20190415/1552708078.html

Plushenko said that Tarakanova had to leave because of overbearing emotions/hysterics.
Анастасия Тараканова покинула его академию из-за чрезмерной эмоциональности.

"Настя не смогла, на мой взгляд, перестроиться. Я просил ее не психовать на льду, но она срывалась. Что-то не получается, и она начинает кричать и плакать, устраивать истерики. Я ей объяснял, что если она будет продолжать так же относиться к тренировочному процессу, мы будем вынуждены расстаться. Но она продолжала показывать нервозность, постоянно ревела, после чего я решил пообщаться с родителями на тему смены тренерского коллектива", - рассказал специалист."

"Natsya could not, in my opinion, adopt. I asked her not to freak out on the ice, but she would let it all out (went off the deep end). If something did not go right, she would scream and cry, became hysterical. I explained to her, if she continues to treat the training process in such manner, we'll have to part. Yet she continued to behave anxious, constantly sobbing, so i had to discuss with her parents a change of training team."

"Одно время Настя смогла поменять отношение к делу, мы неплохо провели сезон, - продолжил Плющенко. – Но сезон закончился, и я ей сказал, что нужно работать над усложнением, учить аксель в три с половиной оборота, четверные прыжки. Она пробовала заходить на тот же аксель, но делала восемь одинарных прыжков и начинала плакать. На это всё смотрят другие дети группы, и это при том, что Тараканова у нас была лидером. После неоднократных бесед мы решили расстаться".

"At one point Nastya managed to change her attitude, and we had no so bad of a season. But the season was over, and i told her that we need to work on increasing the difficulty, to start learning the 3A, quads. She tried to make entries into an axel, but instead did 8 singles in a row and would start to cry. And all the little kids in our group would watch this, given that Tarakanova was the group's leader. After many conversations we decided to part".
Well, that’s not Pluschenko’s best day. He is turning into Tutberidze. Verbal incontinence. Let’s air private maters over the internet. I believe there should be certain level of confidentiality between a coach and his/her skater. If Pluschenko said that Tarakanova is too emotional and left it at that, fine. Not great, but still ok. But going into details how she is frequently crying... there was no need for that. Tarakanova is a teenager, very likely going through her puberty and her hormones are all over place. Lots of teenagers have a periods of time when they may be prone to crying. Doing elite level of any sport (and being reasonably successful) means there is quite a lot of expectations on her young shoulders, and the number of skaters in junior ladies in Russia, all fighting for a limited number of spots, that’s a pressure cooker. All this stress, in combination with puberty and hormones, I am not surprised she is crying. Some people are naturally more emotional than others. But I strongly disagree with sharing this in public media.
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,172
Well, that’s not Pluschenko’s best day. He is turning into Tutberidze. Verbal incontinence. Let’s air private maters over the internet. I believe there should be certain level of confidentiality between a coach and his/her skater. If Pluschenko said that Tarakanova is too emotional and left it at that, fine. Not great, but still ok. But going into details how she is frequently crying... there was no need for that. Tarakanova is a teenager, very likely going through her puberty and her hormones are all over place. Lots of teenagers have a periods of time when they may be prone to crying. Doing elite level of any sport (and being reasonably successful) means there is quite a lot of expectations on her young shoulders, and the number of skaters in junior ladies in Russia, all fighting for a limited number of spots, that’s a pressure cooker. All this stress, in combination with puberty and hormones, I am not surprised she is crying. Some people are naturally more emotional than others. But I strongly disagree with sharing this in public media.
I like Tarakanova very much, but that said, coaches don't just air private matters on the internet on their own free will. As soon as an athlete leaves, the coach is bombarded with phone calls and visits from journalists, federation members, rumors start, etc. Coaches do have a right to explain their position. The "style" of such explanations is a subject to discussion, certainly. Tutberidze is "flowers" compared to others, she's just in view more because of her success.

Tarasova went on for months about Kulik's departure and how he cheated her out of money. Frank Carroll talked about his dissappointment about "how, and in what manner" Kwan left him few months before the Olympics. Alexei Mishin does not "talk"... he just quietly "arranges" hindrances for skaters who cross/leave him.

Plenty more... the only difference is - "back then" the internet and social media was less of a factor.

PS... again, liking Tarakanova VERY much, i am reading on Russian live-journals and sites that Tarakanova "getting hysterical" at practices is a known fact; she did it at Panova's back then, then at Sambo-70, and now at Plushenko's camp. She gets her way at home, and parents are not very strict with her. Apparently Nastya tried to see if she can go back to Sambo, and now to Panova, and Sambo was not thrilled and Panova is "not sure"..
 
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PRlady

Gutting it out
Messages
31,986
Watching the Tarakanova clip, I thought all that drama was not applied by the choreo but an expression of who she is. Plushy may have been too open but I can really believe his description. And he’s a pretty stoic guy himself, I don’t think he’s the right coach for a :drama:
 

Rina RUS

Well-Known Member
Messages
760
My wish would be that a part of the segment is taped at a rink, and Urgant would try to skate..... but oh, well... :lol:
There's no hope for that. :) Urgant made Yagudin agree to skate with him and to lift him, but even after that Urgant didn't start skating. Urgant only sent Mikheeva to be Yagudin's partner. :)
a short video (no subtitles)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubw_IxIGjrI

Urgant (to Marinin): Look. Explain, please. Two kids (including your son) are in skates, the first and the third place. And the boy who took the second place, is in sports shoes. How could it happen?
(the picture)
http://j-p-g.net/if/2016/10/04/0978821001475620020.jpg
/.../
Urgant: Actually, I don't understand why you...
Yagudin: You don't understand, because for so many years you say the same: "NO!" to our ice projects. Everybody have already gone through us.
Urgant: Through these skates...
Yagudin: Mitya, Alla...
(he gestures at Mitya Khrustalyov, Mitya and Alla work in Urgant's show)
Urgant: I'll be the last. There will be no more people on the earth, only me.
Mitya Khrustalyov: And the skates.
Yagudin: And it will be our final project.
Urgant: All of you will stand around me, in skates; and I'll stand on the second place, in sports shoes, - like that boy.

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?67595-Team-Ilia-Averbukh&p=1873554&viewfull=1#post1873554
 

annie_mg

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,089
I am not sure I agree. Svetlana Boguinskaya had a woman's body when she competed. Aliya Mustafina and a few other Russian gymnasts are / were more womanly than American girls, for example. Liza Tut and Sofia Samodurova look well-conditioned and perfectly healthy. Regardless of whether it's cultural or not, starving young girls under a flag of "maintaining a fighting sports weight" is absolutely sick.
The gymnasts you mention are exceptions and we all know how much hate Mustafina is getting all the time from Rodionova for her weight ...but anyway I wasn't trying to justify anything and you're damn right, it's a problem everywhere. It's just shocking how openly the Russians seem to speak about it. What's better, suffering in silence like Gracie or Gabby or thinking it's normal like Zagitova and talk about it to the press? I guess the result is the same in the end...
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Medvedeva, T&M, Shibs, P&C
Messages
47,061
Not in Russia I think. I also follow gymnastics and every 3rd comment the coaches make has to do with the girls' weight. So this makes me think that it's a cultural thing and you're expected to starve as an athlete...And that in any case eating disorders in athletes aren't viewed as such. I hope I'm wrong, but it sure looks like that.
Thank you for a balanced post, while everyone is freaking out over the Russian girls. Athletes do have restricted diets. They dont eat just anything they want, when they want. The dehydration part is the only one that concerns me. In many sports weight is a factor . Football, boxing, gymnastics come to my mind. I dont know how they manage their weights but they do. It is just that everyobe is not freaking out over it. Boitano had mentioned at one point that the judges told him he needed to lose weight and he was already very thin. So it can happen to many athletes. All this furor is over the Russian girls and I think at least oart if the reason is that they are winning and they do amazing tricks.
 

Wyliefan

Well-Known Member
Messages
26,208
Yes, all skating fans everywhere hate seeing skaters win and do amazing tricks, so we go out of our way to look for reasons to tear down the ones who do. :rolleyes:
 

VenusH.

Member
Messages
49
I don't want to see tricks if they are followed by "I don't eat and drink" and "Skater XY known for "amazing tricks" quits skating at 18 to treat her eating disorder".

Honestly, lots of these stories (and those include the Japanese ladies having arthritis at 18 years old, Gracie, Gabby, Ashley)... it takes an enjoyment of the skating, because one has to wonder if what you are seeing is not a sick girl or girl on amazing pain meds skating through stress fractures caused by malnutrition.
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,172
I don't want to see tricks if they are followed by "I don't eat and drink" and "Skater XY known for "amazing tricks" quits skating at 18 to treat her eating disorder".
They ALL eat and drink. There are short periods of time, when they limit themselves, like all athletes and ballet dancers in sports when it is sometimes required.

Team Tutberidze, all adults, take very good care of these girls, it's a convenient myth that they are "monsters". Daniil Gleikh just gave an interview, and mentioned that Kostornaia just started to skate again, was FORBIDDEN to do any jumps, and when the coaches stepped away she started jumping behind their backs, so they had to stop her again.

The girls post plenty of videos where they are eating lunches and talking about what food they brougt for lunch, and it is "chicken meat" and "eating 8!!! short skewers of shish-kebabs".. and it is not an invention.... or "fotos", it's from the girls' own mouth, and not intended to be used as "evidence".

"We just ate shish-kebabs! Kostornaya: i ate 8 or 10. Panenkova "they were small.... I have to eat my chicken".
@ 2:10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdSrXo8j_MU

.... they do eat even [email protected] 4:50... and she has a "message" for "doubters"..... :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4-BO--Pw4E
 

Finsta

Well-Known Member
Messages
200
If was nothing to it then Coach wouldn’t feel the need for the PR tactics of mentioning girls eating food.
 

hanca

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,570
I like Tarakanova very much, but that said, coaches don't just air private matters on the internet on their own free will. As soon as an athlete leaves, the coach is bombarded with phone calls and visits from journalists, federation members, rumors start, etc. Coaches do have a right to explain their position. The "style" of such explanations is a subject to discussion, certainly. Tutberidze is "flowers" compared to others, she's just in view more because of her success.

Tarasova went on for months about Kulik's departure and how he cheated her out of money. Frank Carroll talked about his dissappointment about "how, and in what manner" Kwan left him few months before the Olympics. Alexei Mishin does not "talk"... he just quietly "arranges" hindrances for skaters who cross/leave him.

Plenty more... the only difference is - "back then" the internet and social media was less of a factor.

PS... again, liking Tarakanova VERY much, i am reading on Russian live-journals and sites that Tarakanova "getting hysterical" at practices is a known fact; she did it at Panova's back then, then at Sambo-70, and now at Plushenko's camp. She gets her way at home, and parents are not very strict with her. Apparently Nastya tried to see if she can go back to Sambo, and now to Panova, and Sambo was not thrilled and Panova is "not sure"..
That’s the weirdest excuse you could try to make for Pluschenko. So because he was going to be asked by journalists why she left, that gives him excuse to say what he did? Look at Sotskova leaving Buyanova, that’s the way how to part with your student in a classy manner. I am sure Buyanova also was going to be ‘bombarded with questions’ but that was not a reason for her to become verbally incontinent the way it happens to Pluschenko and Tutberidze.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,143
I think they tend to put a weight focus on everything when it probably isn’t necessary.

I recall reading an interview with a Russian ladies skater where she was saying when she was younger she didn’t have to watch her diet or do much off-ice training. Yes of course, she was a little child.

But then as she became older she had to work harder to maintain condition (doesn’t everyone) and had to start running on the treadmill for an hour a day.

This could all be viewed as a straight forward natural progression of training harder as you enter adulthood as an elite athlete.

But yet the whole thing was wrapped up in this weight centric focus. Rather than elite athlete training. I’m sure in every sport the athletes do exercise to maintain condition but in skating it’s just this weight obsession.

I think it’s amplified because the ladies become internationally elite whilst just crossing over from childhood - and the memories of being a stick thin child are still there.
 

Bigbird

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Messages
768
That’s the weirdest excuse you could try to make for Pluschenko. So because he was going to be asked by journalists why she left, that gives him excuse to say what he did? Look at Sotskova leaving Buyanova, that’s the way how to part with your student in a classy manner. I am sure Buyanova also was going to be ‘bombarded with questions’ but that was not a reason for her to become verbally incontinent the way it happens to Pluschenko and Tutberidze.

Class, it's a rare gift. :scream:
 

bladesofgorey

Well-Known Member
Messages
137
God some of these posts are ignorant. I was going to say disgusting but ignorant is more charitable. So here's some enlightenment:

1.People with eating disorders *commonly* make a big show about eating food or serving food, posing with food, talking about how stuffed they are from delicious food etc. That's ED 101. "Oh look they post about food all the time they aren't starving themselves" is an idiotic argument to make.

2. Athletes being on special diets designed by knowledgeable nutritionists to make sure they are getting adequate calories and nutritional food and the vitamins/minerals/protein/fluids they need to perform optimally and fuel their (in most cases still growing) bodies is normal. Food and fluid restriction is not, and is harmful physically and in some ways more importantly *psychologically* and can have long term and sometimes lifelong ramifications for young athletes.

3. Athletes spitting out water in case it increases their weight and weighing themselves 3 times a day HAVE FULL BLOWN EATING DISORDERS and need intervention stat, not admiration for being so tough or committed.

4. Telling young athletes they are overweight, pressuring young athletes to stay extremely thin, indoctrinating young athletes into believing that their performance hinges on every last ounce is an excellent way to make sure a huge percentage of your young charges are irreversibly damaged psychologically, develop warped relationships with food/eating, and are gifted with a lifelong curse of body dysmorphia.

5. Yes there is a predisposition to anorexia and other eating disorders just like there's a predisposition to alcoholism, but that predisposition includes traits like being perfectionists and people-pleasers which means skaters are already a self-selected group with tendencies towards them.

6. I'm not going to go digging through the scientific literature right now because I am not in the mood but many reputable studies have shown that when people are given inadequate amounts of food over a period of time *for any reason* their brain chemistry changes and often develop eating disorders or at the very least screwed up relationships to food after the period of starvation has ended. So congrats to Eteri and any other coaches from any country who create similar regiments/environments/attitudes for increasing the odds even more that their skaters will be permanently damaged.
 

alchemy void

4 more years! 4 more years!
Messages
18,702
Interesting that both Sakhanovich and Tarakanova have both left Plushenko after a relatively short period of time. Also, I think one of his main coaches (Lavrenchuk) left last year, too.

BTW, the Angels of Plushenko homepage is one of the creepiest things I've seen in quite some time. :yikes: Although I guess the illustration is somewhat fitting. :shuffle:
 
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