From Russia with Love [#34]: Autumn 2019

[TAHbKA]

Back then you had Mishin saying he prefered coaching boys as it was much easier...

Yes. Mishin said one thing in his interviews and Tutberidze said something different in hers. The question was why there are no male juniors with quads. I don't recalk Mishin's juniors doing quads?

 

[starrynight]

Yes. Mishin said one thing in his interviews and Tutberidze said something different in hers. The question was why there are no male juniors with quads. I don't recalk Mishin's juniors doing quads?

My question wasn’t so much specifically about juniors - as a rule I don’t follow juniors. I was more wondering about the different state of men’s vs ladies skating - senior.

As for teaching boys vs girls, I think it’s clear that different approaches and tactics are needed for boys versus girls. Some people have more of an affinity with one versus the other.

Mishin coached Plushenko and Yagudin, so he’s had very successful men.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

I wish Eteri had replied along the lines that "Boys prefer Hockey over FS". Then we would be talking about boys preferring hockey than this

 

[starrynight]

I wish Eteri had replied along the lines that "Boys prefer Hockey over FS". Then we would be talking about boys preferring hockey than this

That interview was done in the context of explaining away the ending of Pitkeev’s career and painting him in the worst possible light. So there was a different focus.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Tutberidze said several times in her interviews working with the boys is harder - while there are plenty of girls and the competition is high the boys tended to feel sorry for themselves and demand much more love and attention. I think she was talking back then specifically about Pitkeev, so perhaps the younger boys take after the girls in her group rather than being drama queens.

Back then you had Mishin saying he prefered coaching boys as it was much easier...

Depends on the coach's approach. I am going to call a spade a spade.... Boys aren't as easily emotionally manipulated and controlled as girls - because they aren't as eager to please. They don't care about being a teacher's pet. So with boys, the relationship has to be a partnership not a dictatorship. Girls of course figure it all out by the time they hit their late teens, but little girls are simply easier to control for someone like Tutberidze. Mishin's philosophy is drastically different, thus he's had tremendous success with boys/men.

 

[mjb52]

Depends on the coach's approach. I am going to call a spade a spade.... Boys aren't as easily emotionally manipulated and controlled as girls - because they aren't as eager to please. They don't care about being a teacher's pet. So with boys, the relationship has to be a partnership not a dictatorship. Girls of course figure it all out by the time they hit their late teens, but little girls are simply easier to control for someone like Tutberidze. Mishin's philosophy is drastically different, thus he's had tremendous success with boys/men.

I dont think this is true and I think it is a dangerous stereotype which we have learned to be false. Perhaps boys are emotionally manipulated and controlled using different methods but it absolutely happens.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

I dont think this is true and I think it is a dangerous stereotype which we have learned to be false. Perhaps boys are emotionally manipulated and controlled using different methods but it absolutely happens.

You are reading too much into what I said. Waaaaaay too much. My point is, when you coach boys the way Tutberidze coaches her girls - they quit or lose interest.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Daniil is 14? I don't believe it!

My question wasn’t so much specifically about juniors - as a rule I don’t follow juniors. I was more wondering about the different state of men’s vs ladies skating - senior.

As for teaching boys vs girls, I think it’s clear that different approaches and tactics are needed for boys versus girls. Some people have more of an affinity with one versus the other.

Mishin coached Plushenko and Yagudin, so he’s had very successful men.

He coached Alexei Urmanov to an Olympic title too didn't he?

 

[ninjapirate]

Look at the height charts by age: https://www.who.int/growthref/who2007_height_for_age/en/

The average girl is taller than the average boy up until 12 years 9 months... boys height starts to accelerate at about 12 months and the final height is 10+cm higher. It's just not going to be as easy to develop boys on a mass scale as develop girls especially if you want them ready at age 13.

 

[zebraswan]

Depends on the coach's approach. I am going to call a spade a spade.... Boys aren't as easily emotionally manipulated and controlled as girls - because they aren't as eager to please. They don't care about being a teacher's pet. So with boys, the relationship has to be a partnership not a dictatorship. Girls of course figure it all out by the time they hit their late teens, but little girls are simply easier to control for someone like Tutberidze. Mishin's philosophy is drastically different, thus he's had tremendous success with boys/men.

Really??? Have you seen Lazukin or Petrov lately? As for the rest of what you wrote...yikes.

 

[Bigbird]

Boys are simply not as mentally strong as our girls. Also we tend to coddle them too much we raise our girls differently. Besides which we are just genetically primed to endure. Nonetheless we have notable exceptions, it's just that right now they are not in Russia.

 

[starrynight]

I don't know about a lot of this. One sees plenty of boys subjecting themselves to all kinds of brutal training and play in sports like rugby, hockey, swimming etc

Maybe figure skating just isn't fashionable enough amongst boys for them to aspire en masse to break themselves over it. By comparison, figure skating, along with gymnastics is often viewed as the pinnacle of sports for girls.

For boys, ice skating is something they usually get teased a lot about and people ask them why they don't play football or hockey.

 

[Doggygirl]

Also how stunning was that throw jump from Aleksandra Boikova and Dmitrii Kozlovskii in their short program at Skate Canada? Beautiful entrance with a big smile from her as she went into it - looked effortless and like she didn't even need to concentrate (although I'm sure she was) and then a beautiful glide out.

You can see it here: https://twitter.com/ISU_Figure/status/1187891184481361921?s=20

A beautiful throw like that has to be my favourite skating element.

My favorite part of that twitter post was the actual throw jump! But my second favorite part was the caption "Flying Pink Power!" I will not forget that one!

 

[mollymgr]

I'm very happy for Trusova landing 3 quads. Definitely a moment where the sport has a major shift. I'm sad that most of the posts are about the negativity instead of recognizing this accomplishment. The same thing happened with the men's field a few years ago and look where we are now.

 

[rfisher]

Trusova is an amazing athlete and in perfect shape. Part of the negativity are assumed training conditions that don't hold water when you look at her. She has amazing muscle definition and is in remarkable condition. She's hardly starving nor is she cowering in fear from her coaching team. She has full support from her family (one of whom always travels with her). She deserves absolute respect for her athletic ability.

Next week we see Kostornaia versus Zagitova which should be a good match. IMHO apart from the 3A, Zagitova has better jumps, spins etc., than Tuk so this will be a better test of Kostornaia's ability than Finlandia. I fully expect them to go 1-2 in some order. If Kostornaia does the 3A in the SP, she should win gold. It is looking like the GPF in ladies will be 4-5 Russians and 1-2 Japanese ladies. Again. Just new Russians.

 

[Ka3sha]

And congratulations to Boikova/Kozlovskii who won their first Senior GP gold medal

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[hanca]

And congratulations to Boikova/Kozlovskii who won their fisrt Senior GP event

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It doesn’t seem that Mishina/Galliamov will have it so easy to beat this pair. (Couldn’t help myself.)

 

[Vash01]

I wish Eteri had replied along the lines that "Boys prefer Hockey over FS". Then we would be talking about boys preferring hockey than this

I believe this is the main reason we don’t see many talented Russian men in FS. They make a lot more money in the NHL.

Daniil is 14? I don't believe it!


He coached Alexei Urmanov to an Olympic title too didn't he?

Urmanov is the forgotten Olympic champion.
Russia had four OGM men in a row - Urmanov, Kulik, Yagudin, Plushenko. Three of them were coached by Mishin.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Really??? Have you seen Lazukin or Petrov lately? As for the rest of what you wrote...yikes.

Oh please, get off your soapbox. You can bash me what you want, but I will stand by my personal observations. Any teacher will tell you that girls up to a certain age are greater people pleasers than boys. Boys focus more on other things. Of course we can be politically correct and say that boys and girls have exactly the same behavioral trends in their teens. It's amazing what this pc thinking does to society. Takes away any ability to honestly analyze the situation and take appropriate action. If the Karoliy's systemic abuse of young female gymnasts, the Nasser case, the endless cases of sexual and emotional abuse on young female athletes do not tell the story, I don't know what does. That's not to say that there weren't similar cases with boys (specifically in ice hockey & figure skating). Have you asked yourself why they aren't as wide spread? If you really believe girls are not more vulnerable to certain things, you are not looking at things realistically.

 

[love_skate2011]

It doesn’t seem that Mishina/Galliamov will have it so easy to beat this pair. (Couldn’t help myself.)

216 vs 210 isn't much of a big difference, it took almost the end of last season for B/K to get those scores.
while some arguably point B/K are better in PCS, M/G have advantage in TES which can make up for some 2-3 PCS Buffer.

I'd still have M/G as russian no.1 this season not B/K , also B/K are known to be inconsistent.
T/M sadly as predicted have been dumped the judges for the younger faces M/G, B/K and P/K.

Tarasova / Morozov are the new Shishkova / Naumov

 

[Vash01]

216 vs 210 isn't much of a big difference, it took almost the end of last season for B/K to get those scores.
while some will dispute B/K are better in PCS, M/G have advantage in TES which can make up for some 2-3 PCS Buffer.

I'd still have M/G as russian no.1 this season not B/K , also B/K are known to be inconsistent.
T/M sadly as predicted have been dumped the judges for the younger faces M/G, B/K and P/K.

Tarasova / Morozov are the new Shishkova / Naumov

B&K are inconsistent- in what universe? They have delivered consistent performances since last season, in major competitions.

 

[love_skate2011]

B&K are inconsistent- in what universe? They have delivered consistent performances since last season, in major competitions.

B/K barely cracked 200+ last season,

M/G have done that in their first competition this season and younger juniors like P/R are scoring almost 200, P/R are very good in elements but I question their longevity she is only 16 and there is that height difference that is crucial for a skating partnership to survive. Sad coz they really have good flows , lifts and throws. It is difficult to invest in pairs when you know the guy is too short alas not everyone can be tall and all arounder like Trankov or Gallaimov.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

B/K barely cracked 200+ last season,

M/G have done that in their first competition this season and younger juniors like P/R are scoring almost 200, P/R are very good in elements but I question their longevity she is only 16 and there is that height difference that is crucial for a skating partnership to survive. Sad coz they really have good flows , lifts and throws. It is difficult to invest in pairs when you know the guy is too short alas not everyone can be tall and all arounder like Trankov or Gallaimov.

I know you are trolling, because nobody is dumb enough not compare scores at a Challenger event to scores at a GP event. Nor anyone in their right mind would call Kozlovkii short. But I give you points for the entertainment value, and keeping things light and not malicious. Good job

 

[zigzig]

Posting this here even though Alysa Liu is mentioned...

The Year Teenage Girls Blew Up Figure Skating

A group of teenage girls have turbocharged the sport officially known as ladies skating, landing quadruple jumps that were off-limits for decades and in quantities that are already up there with the top male skaters.

www.wsj.com

Pretty much a redux of the discussion that's been on here for years but nice to see a general interest skating article in a big news outlet.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Our resident Mishina Galiamov troll/uber brings up an interesting point about height. I suspect that Sasha Boikova is done growing (I mean... she's clearly gone through puberty). But if she keeps getting taller, what happens? Can they sustain he technical consistency? What do you guys think about their look overall? It's so unusual these days to see a tall pairs lady skater, but I dig it. There is something very nostalgic yet very modern about them.

 

[oleada]

I know you are trolling, because nobody is dumb enough not compare scores at a Challenger event to scores at a GP event. Nor anyone in their right mind would call Kozlovkii short. But I give you points for the entertainment value, and keeping things light and not malicious. Good job

Not to defend our resident troll here, but she was calling Dmitri Rylov (of Panfilova/Rylov, the P/R she references) short. While it’s true that Rylov is shorter than some male pairs skaters, it hardly seems to affect them as their throws, lifts and twist are world class. It’s the jumps that are holding P/R behind, not his height.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Sometimes appearances can be deceptive and surprising. There are some teams with a nice height difference yet their throws and twists barely get any height or distance. Yet you got S/H, who are close height wise, get wonderful height and distance on the throws and twists. A skinny guy and a more muscular guy won't necessary perform certain tasks as you expect them to either. So while height difference can play a role in some cases I think good training and basics do too. Every team is different.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Not to defend our resident troll here, but she was calling Dmitri Rylov (of Panfilova/Rylov, the P/R she references) short. While it’s true that Rylov is shorter than some male pairs skaters, it hardly seems to affect them as their throws, lifts and twist are world class. It’s the jumps that are holding P/R behind, not his height.

Yes indeed! Thank you for correcting me on this. I like this troll, lol. It's all in good fun, not foaming at the mouth hatered like we see here occasionally. In fact, encouraged me to watch M&G just to see what the fuss was all about - and I loved them.

 

[dinakt]

Our resident Mishina Galiamov troll/uber brings up an interesting point about height. I suspect that Sasha Boikova is done growing (I mean... she's clearly gone through puberty). But if she keeps getting taller, what happens? Can they sustain he technical consistency? What do you guys think about their look overall? It's so unusual these days to see a tall pairs lady skater, but I dig it. There is something very nostalgic yet very modern about them.

I love their look, for what it's worth. It is unusual to have a tall pairs girl with such skill and star power (I love the look in general- works for me in Cain-Gribble/LeDuc partnership, too). And their SBS jumps are so gorgeous! (knock on wood). Boikova's almost 18- I think she's done growing and looks great.

 

[oleada]

I love their look, for what it's worth. It is unusual to have a tall pairs girl with such skill and star power (I love the look in general- works for me in Cain-Gribble/LeDuc partnership, too). And their SBS jumps are so gorgeous! (knock on wood). Boikova's almost 18- I think she's done growing and looks great.

I agree! And luckily, Dmitri is a really tall guy, so her being taller than the average pairs lady is not that big a deal.