Champs Camp August 18-23, 2018

[AxelAnnie]

Not to be obtuse, but how is the US able to be so strong in dance and yet so weak in pairs? Is it a practice time issue? I'm assuming dance lifts, spins and step sequences are easier to practice on crowded sessions, while pairs elements require renting out the whole sheet of ice? I clearly have no clue what goes into this, but it is striking how the US is so strong in one discipline and weak in the other.

I have a slightly different take on this. Beginning with Lang & Tchernychev & Silverstein/Pekarek, ice dance moved away from the angsty, rolling on the ice, dramatic (and kind of ridiculous) style of the Russians and Europeans, to a more accessible (for the viewer) programs that looked like skating and dance. The North Americans followed that theme, and the Russians et al did not. By the time the angst was less important, the North Americans had pulled ahead.

As to Pairs..........they all (petty much) received a memo that the jumps didn't really count. You could fall, and get points, you could look like you were jumping and get points. How many American Pairs teams actually, reliably land their jumps? Um.........none? I am not sure any teams reliably land the jumps except for Sui/Han and S/M & D/H - not a lot. So the US got left in the dust, thinking they could bet by with sloppy jumps....and the world marched ahead........

 

[Moustaffask8r]

Back to the subject of Champs Camp...

It looks like it ended last night. Per social media, skaters are leaving this morning. I guess USFS figured out how to condense the program into fewer days.

Hopefully, articles and vids will start appearing on the Fan Zone page soon.

Was about to say the same !!

 

[gkelly]

Not to be obtuse, but how is the US able to be so strong in dance and yet so weak in pairs? Is it a practice time issue? I'm assuming dance lifts, spins and step sequences are easier to practice on crowded sessions, while pairs elements require renting out the whole sheet of ice?

Yes, that is mostly true.

Free dances (and [strike]short dance[/strike] rhythm dance) can't really be practiced on crowded sessions, but they can be done on emptier freestyles as well as designated dance sessions. Pairs really need their own non-crowded ice time when everybody else on the ice knows what to expect.

Pattern dances have more flexibility for practice sessions.

@vesperholly With the advent of solo dance there's also been a lot more skaters simply learning the dances and learning them earlier. While I'm sure that's not affecting elite dance quite yet, I'm sure it is increasing the awareness of ice dance and the number of coaches able to coach dances.

And it seems that some skaters who compete in solo dance use that as a stepping stone toward finding partners. Of course, there are still many more girls who would love to find a partner if possible than there are male dancers available.

Unfortunately it's not increasing the number of dance judges quite yet.

Yes, the demand on dance test judges is bigger. And solo dance competition! I don't think the demand for competition dance judges has increased that much. That's where the former competitors would want to aim for and get fast-tracked to, so I don't think it will be as much of a problem finding enough dance judges for that more elite judging track.

 

[Frau Muller]

Was about to say the same !!

I guess that Champs Camp reports are High Top Secret

 

[LilJen]

Vlassov grew, though, and that's not something Pairs can control, and Meekins had a shoulder injury, which can be insurmountable. Those are other reasons why junior success can't always translate to seniors.

McLaughlin also grew. Alas, there's not much one can do about size mismatches Other than the Russian method, mentioned upthread, of picking them out of the hospital nursery and teaching them quads [reality: seeing possibilities based on parental stature and early athletic aptitude]

 

[Debbie S]

If anyone is still interested in discussing Champs Camp and related news , this article by Lynn Rutherford on Karen Chen was posted today: http://www.usfigureskatingfanzone.c...n-chen-seeks-fresh-start-in-colorado-springs/

I hope Karen can have a great season and that her new training environment in CO helps her skate to her potential.

 

[Firedancer]

Jackie Wong tweeted a picture of a microphone saying 2.0. I hope this means Icetalk will be coming back.
https://mobile.twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1032323740162568192

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

If anyone is still interested in discussing Champs Camp and related news , this article by Lynn Rutherford on Karen Chen was posted today: http://www.usfigureskatingfanzone.c...n-chen-seeks-fresh-start-in-colorado-springs/

I hope Karen can have a great season and that her new training environment in CO helps her skate to her potential.

Rutherford is queen of press release spin, that's for sure. Her article said nothing about how Karen actually performed at the champs camp.

 

[Willin]

@essence_of_soy I don't know if that's Lynn Rutherford as much as it is USFSA not wanting that kind of stuff to leak out and Lynn Rutherford wanting to keep that access.

Other than gossip that leaks to Jackie Wong/TSL/others from coaches and skaters, I've never seen anyone from USFSA say anything about the quality of the skating at Champs Camp. They're also very selective about which reporters are allowed to cover it. Those like Lynn that tend to follow the rules are most likely to get an invite.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

@essence_of_soy I don't know if that's Lynn Rutherford as much as it is USFSA not wanting that kind of stuff to leak out and Lynn Rutherford wanting to keep that access.

Other than gossip that leaks to Jackie Wong/TSL/others from coaches and skaters, I've never seen anyone from USFSA say anything about the quality of the skating at Champs Camp. They're also very selective about which reporters are allowed to cover it. Those like Lynn that tend to follow the rules are most likely to get an invite.

You make a very good point.

It just seems like a redundant exercise, though, not to actually report on how a skater or a team is actually doing or progressing in preparation for the upcoming season.

Too bad we don't see any video like the ones that are posted at Russian test skates.

 

[Willin]

@essence_of_soy I really wish we could get a livestream of the test skates from Champs Camp just like Russia streams the test skates for their skaters. Heck, let spectators in and turn it into a sort of competition. Lord knows US skaters need more practice in front of the bright lights and under pressure.

They don't need to stream the critiques given by the judges, but it would be interesting to see the progress skaters make through the season and what changes are made. At the very least I'd like to see some clips posted to social media of good jumps or spins.

 

[Debbie S]

The articles that come out after Champs Camp are never specifically about the skating at the camp...I'm not sure reporters are even allowed into the performances/critiques. Reporters are there to get news on music, skaters' training/coaching changes, goals for season...it's about generating a buzz to get fans interested as the season starts.

I don't have a problem with keeping the monitoring sessions private. They are for the benefit of the skaters and coaches, not the fans.

 

[el henry]

I agree that the monitoring sessions should remain private and without video, and access restricted to journalists who respect that.

Don’t get me wrong I am jonesing big time for news about Jason

But honest skating and honest critique will only come in private. And I want honest critique from TPTB at USFS, and not, with all due regard to my fellow fans, the same old same old from fans who think they know better than USFS.

Which we all think we do

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

@essence_of_soy I really wish we could get a livestream of the test skates from Champs Camp just like Russia streams the test skates for their skaters. Heck, let spectators in and turn it into a sort of competition. Lord knows US skaters need more practice in front of the bright lights and under pressure.

They don't need to stream the critiques given by the judges, but it would be interesting to see the progress skaters make through the season and what changes are made. At the very least I'd like to see some clips posted to social media of good jumps or spins.

THIS!

The skaters know they have to bring it. Which probably explains to a certain degree why Russia is pulling in much better international results overall than the US.

 

[el henry]

THIS!

The skaters know they have to bring it. Which probably explains to a certain degree why Russia is pulling in much better international results overall than the US.

I’m not sure I understand this.

Yes, the US skaters know they need to bring it. They know this every bit as much as their Russian counterparts.

If “bringing it” were as simplistic as knowing that I had to bring it, or taking it seriously, I would be OGM. And I am not

The US skaters know it. They take it seriously. If something needs to be fixed, it’s not as easy as that.....

 

[Dobre]

I don't get the impression that the goals are exactly the same. Champs Camp in the U.S. includes team building while the Russian test skates seem more like a competition. Though Russia also only lets out the news that it wants. Not everyone skates publicly during their test skates either and not always both programs. Most of the seniors perform in public, but many of the U.S. skaters have performed in public also and many in real competition. Just not here. (Nathan, Bradie, Courtney, Angela, four of the seven dance teams, I haven't been following the pairs). I think it's a serious enough endeavor. Many times we hear that programs have changed due to feedback. That's simply not the side the public gets to see.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

I’m not sure I understand this.

Yes, the US skaters know they need to bring it. They know this every bit as much as their Russian counterparts.

If “bringing it” were as simplistic as knowing that I had to bring it, or taking it seriously, I would be OGM. And I am not

The US skaters know it. They take it seriously. If something needs to be fixed, it’s not as easy as that.....

I don't get what essence of soy is trying to saying???

 

[misskarne]

@essence_of_soy I really wish we could get a livestream of the test skates from Champs Camp just like Russia streams the test skates for their skaters. Heck, let spectators in and turn it into a sort of competition. Lord knows US skaters need more practice in front of the bright lights and under pressure.

You do realise Russia has closed test skates too, right? No streams or audiences.

 

[Willin]

@misskarne Aren't there videos released and/or extensive media reports? A lot leaks out of them.

And what would be so bad about having it be an informal competition/critique. It seems like a lot of US skaters have trouble with the pressure of competition. The more practice they get, the better. It doesn't mean the competition has to mean anything or even be scored under IJS, but I think making it more competition like would be better.

 

[Dobre]

And what would be so bad about having it be an informal competition/critique. It seems like a lot of US skaters have trouble with the pressure of competition. The more practice they get, the better. It doesn't mean the competition has to mean anything or even be scored under IJS, but I think making it more competition like would be better.

They compete all year long. I don't think there's any harm in letting them start the season off with at least one positive experience together. It's a very long season and plenty of high stress along the way. There are pluses--athlete retainment, for one--in building that sense of a team.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Getting feedback from judges on one's competitive programs I understand.

The team building exercises seem a bit like filler to me.

Skating is first and foremost, an individual sport.

 

[overedge]

Getting feedback from judges on one's competitive programs I understand.

The team building exercises seem a bit like filler to me.

Skating is first and foremost, an individual sport.

Given the problems with keeping pairs teams together that we discussed before, I'd vote for individual team building exercises for each of the dance and pairs teams. I agree that team building for all of the attendees together is probably not necessary.

 

[Frau Muller]

Rutherford is queen of press release spin, that's for sure. Her article said nothing about how Karen actually performed at the champs camp.

Of course. Lynn’s job is to protect (provide spin for) US skaters.
The longer that time passes without a substantial report on Gracie’s condition, the less I’m convinced about her shape being back to elite level. Show us the videos.

 

[Tavi]

^ Gracie doesn’t have to prove anything to you.

 

[misskarne]

@misskarne Aren't there videos released and/or extensive media reports? A lot leaks out of them.

And what would be so bad about having it be an informal competition/critique. It seems like a lot of US skaters have trouble with the pressure of competition. The more practice they get, the better. It doesn't mean the competition has to mean anything or even be scored under IJS, but I think making it more competition like would be better.

There are two sets of test skates, as I understand it: the closed and open.

But this argument always makes me laugh. I'm sorry, yes, I forgot, the Russian ladies are just such bastions of consistency, Evgenia and Alina and Alexandra are obviously the norm and skaters like Pogorilaya and Tuktamysheva and Leonova are the freak exceptions to this completely 100% consistent group. And let's not forget those pillars of consistency in the Russian men.

 

[Maximillian]

I don't think Gracie would attend Champs Camp if she wasn't feeling fairly confident about her form.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Those were nice pics of Gracie. Did anyone notice the good wishes from Elena Radianova? She welcomed GG back and wished her good luck. I imagine Rad knows a little about insecurities in mid-career.

 

[el henry]

As for team building, let’s ask the skaters themselves.

If the singles skaters think it’s worthwhile, then I want to see team building every day.

If they think it’s a big old waste of time (I know I hated that stuff when I was working, but I’m not an elite USA skater and I wouldn’t presume to speak for them) then let’s ditch it.

But ditching it because people who aren’t skating in the GP representing the US and aren’t attending Champs Camp think it’s not useful, or God forbid, those good for nothing slackers might even be enjoying themselves

Oh please

 

[katmari]

The latest Champs Camp report in the Fan Zone focuses on Mariah Bell and Courtney Hicks:

http://www.usfigureskatingfanzone.co...s-to-altitude/

 

[DimaToe]

Of course. Lynn’s job is to protect (provide spin for) US skaters.
The longer that time passes without a substantial report on Gracie’s condition, the less I’m convinced about her shape being back to elite level. Show us the videos.

So when has Champs Camp truly benefitted someone? I get the monitoring part and what not, but what if Bradie Tennell had taken the advice given to her and ditched “Cinderella” would she have been a national champion and Olympian?