Champs Camp August 18-23, 2018

[aml78]

So when has Champs Camp truly benefitted someone? I get the monitoring part and what not, but what if Bradie Tennell had taken the advice given to her and ditched “Cinderella” would she have been a national champion and Olympian?

Do you know she wouldn’t have been?

 

[Marco]

I miss Ashley Wagner.

 

[DimaToe]

I miss Ashley Wagner.

The show must go on

@aml78 Would you be successful if you couldn’t use the work you were so proud of in whatever you do if you were made to change it all last minute?

 

[Jaana]

As for team building, let’s ask the skaters themselves.

If the singles skaters think it’s worthwhile, then I want to see team building every day.

If they think it’s a big old waste of time (I know I hated that stuff when I was working, but I’m not an elite USA skater and I wouldn’t presume to speak for them) then let’s ditch it.

But ditching it because people who aren’t skating in the GP representing the US and aren’t attending Champs Camp think it’s not useful, or God forbid, those good for nothing slackers might even be enjoying themselves

So did I, but would not have expressed those feelings aloud to anyone, LOL. Maybe the skaters really like the stuff or maybe not. Anyway I doubt that we would hear anything else but enthusiastic talk from them...

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

So did I, but would not have expressed those feelings aloud to anyone, LOL. Maybe the skaters really like the stuff or maybe not. Anyway I doubt that we would hear anything else but enthusiastic talk from them...

True. US skaters are given media training from birth. Whether they choose to follow that path or not, is another story.

 

[vireo]

So when has Champs Camp truly benefitted someone?

Davis and White's FD in the 2011-2012 season comes to mind. IIRC, they were strongly urged to change their free dance after showing it at Champs Camp. They changed to Die Fledermaus, which was very well received and helped establish them as true rivals to Virtue/Moir, rather than perennial runners-up.

I recall reading an interview with Charlie where he said the suggestion to change the 2011-2012 free dance was some of the best advice he ever got, though he wasn't very happy about it at the time.

 

[Carolla5501]

@essence_of_soy I really wish we could get a livestream of the test skates from Champs Camp just like Russia streams the test skates for their skaters. Heck, let spectators in and turn it into a sort of competition. Lord knows US skaters need more practice in front of the bright lights and under pressure.

They don't need to stream the critiques given by the judges, but it would be interesting to see the progress skaters make through the season and what changes are made. At the very least I'd like to see some clips posted to social media of good jumps or spins.

All this would accomplish is the "experts" on here giving their "expert" views on things they know nothing about LOL!

No, the skaters really don't need our thoughts to make them better

 

[MrMystery]

Something to keep in mind regarding Champs Camp is that we don't always know or learn what changes were made following it. Yes, we often hear about music changes or that sort of thing. But with having National/International/Olympic tech panel members on hand, a lot of program elements are changed/enhanced. Costuming and packaging is changed or modified. Etc.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Something to keep in mind regarding Champs Camp is that we don't always know or learn what changes were made following it. Yes, we often hear about music changes or that sort of thing. But with having National/International/Olympic tech panel members on hand, a lot of program elements are changed/enhanced. Costuming and packaging is changed or modified. Etc.

I think the biggest puzzle from last year was when one reputable source claimed that Wagner was told to dump LA LA LAND when she previewed it at Champs Camp. Why TPTB suggested she return to Moulin Rouge for a third year, still baffles me.

 

[concorde]

I don't think Gracie would attend Champs Camp if she wasn't feeling fairly confident about her form.

Didn't Gracie attend Champs Camp last year and later withdraw from her GP assignment? I love Gracie but I am not holding my breath.

I really hope Gracie does what is best for her.

 

[RoseRed]

I think the biggest puzzle from last year was when one reputable source claimed that Wagner was told to dump LA LA LAND when she previewed it at Champs Camp. Why TPTB suggested she return to Moulin Rouge for a third year, still baffles me.

That's not what Ashley said, however. She said she and Raf had already decided to change to Moulin Rouge, but she offered to also show the La La Land at camp and they didn't think it was necessary.

 

[Coco]

I think the biggest puzzle from last year was when one reputable source claimed that Wagner was told to dump LA LA LAND when she previewed it at Champs Camp. Why TPTB suggested she return to Moulin Rouge for a third year, still baffles me.

Maybe TPTB wanted to improve Karen's chances of making the team?

Or, and more likely, maybe Ashley was having a super slow start to her season and TPTB wanted to give her the best possible chance of a decent performance on the GP series?

Sometimes, if you start out weak or slow, you have to change programs to convince judges to not write you off or see your abilities as "capped" at the second tier.

If you are going to start out weak, better to do so with a program you can dump without having invested a ton of new work. Then you switch to your fresh, new program when you are finally in physical shape to do it justice.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

That's not what Ashley said, however. She said she and Raf had already decided to change to Moulin Rouge, but she offered to also show the La La Land at camp and they didn't think it was necessary.

That's why I said it was the biggest puzzle.

 

[GullyGirl84]

According to Ashley Wagner herself, Raf told her to put on Moulin Rouge and said "this is the program I want you to do". At the link below (I remember reading elsewhere too), Ashley said that she offered TPTB the opportunity to see La La Land at Champs Camp, but they were "very supportive of her decision". So it sounds like the issue is more that TPTB did not ask to at least see La La Land/question skating to Moulin Rouge again vs them telling her at champs camp to switch from La La Land to Moulin Rouge, which didn't happen if we believe Ashley. (**whoops...looks like others point out the same above**)

https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/09/20/ashley-wagner-moulin-rouge-la-la-land-free-skate/

I do wonder how certain things went down last year at Champs Camp in terms of the programs and feedback. Mariah Bell said that she previewed a different short program at Champs Camp and was advised to change it, and Karen obviously went through multiple programs last year throughout the season (I actually liked Karen's Slow Dancing in a big City program..).

 

[MrMystery]

I agree that it was a mistake for Wagner not to show La La Land/USFS not have her show it, last year. I also think it was a mistake for USFS to dump her at Nationals (and I'm not a huge Wagner fan), but that's a whole other story.

Back to this years Champs Camp, and those moving forward, I think that this past Olympic season was an eye opening one for USFS, and I think we're already seeing USFS being vocal about that, especially when it comes to pairs. I think we're going to see a lot more monitoring (and there has already been quite a bit, for quite some time), and a more intensive and "hands on" Champs Camp(s) in the future. For the best, really.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

They compete all year long. I don't think there's any harm in letting them start the season off with at least one positive experience together. It's a very long season and plenty of high stress along the way. There are pluses--athlete retainment, for one--in building that sense of a team.

Also people seems to forget that Cham Camp is in Colorado with altitude. So early in the season, not all athletes are ready or in top condition to complete programs that are new and sometimes unfinished in those conditions. We will see those programs soon enough!

 

[Dobre]

Also people seems to forget that Cham Camp is in Colorado with altitude. So early in the season, not all athletes are ready or in top condition to complete programs that are new

And a good percentage of the programs we have not seen yet belong to athletes that were and/or are injured as of the spring/early summer/mid summer. Likely to be behind in the development process even if those athletes are healthy now. They just need to know they're heading in the right direction, not fan criticism at this stage.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Also people seems to forget that Cham Camp is in Colorado with altitude. So early in the season, not all athletes are ready or in top condition to complete programs that are new and sometimes unfinished in those conditions. We will see those programs soon enough!

It's probably for the best that Four Continents were shifted from Colorado Springs to Anaheim later this season.

A couple of years ago when the event was staged there, one jokester referred to the Kiss & Cry as the Huff & Puff.

 

[Cleo1782]

It's probably for the best that Four Continents were shifted from Colorado Springs to Anaheim later this season.

A couple of years ago when the event was staged there, one jokester referred to the Kiss & Cry as the Huff & Puff.

I was there in 2012 and the pair event was painful. Lifts were being put down everywhere. Even Evora/Ladwig put down a lift and I have never seen them do that. I think Paige and Rudi had two lifts go down....It was just not good. Ashley Wagner was though.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I was there in 2012 and the pair event was painful. Lifts were being put down everywhere. Even Evora/Ladwig put down a lift and I have never seen them do that. I think Paige and Rudi had two lifts go down....It was just not good. Ashley Wagner was though.

Yikes, that sounds so scary. I do remember watching Ashley and especially Caroline Zhang's comeback free skate on Latvian livestream.

Back in the day when the Olympic Games were held in the alps and outdoors, those skaters must have been such tough MoFos to handle conditions like that.

 

[Cleo1782]

Yikes, that sounds so scary. I do remember watching Ashley and especially Caroline Zhang's comeback free skate on Latvian livestream.

Back in the day when the Olympic Games were held in the alps and outdoors, those skaters must have been such tough MoFos to handle conditions like that.

It was a tough comp. Eric/Meagan were skating to awful Coldplay and stumbling around. Jessica Dube and her new partner were there (I can't remember his name :/), but Sui and Han did their cute cowboy program and were good and Caydee and John and Rockne and Mary Beth were good as well. The seating was strange too. When I was watching ladies we grabbed a seat in the front row and I felt like we were practically on the ice. Plus both Alissa Cziney and Jeremy Abbott were there as spectators despite declining the invite. It was a weird event all around. Sorry for the thread drift, but point is altitude plays a huge part in CC performances.

 

[aftershocks]

That's why I said it was the biggest puzzle.

I think we are forgetting that by the time of Champs Camp last year, Ashley was not happy with some things about her La La Land program. There was something she had yet to figure out that she didn't feel was working. The version she ended up with at U.S. Nationals after her necessity to pull out from SA, was a revamped cut, and she felt she'd solved whatever was not working with the original cut/choreo. She probably should have stuck with trying to figure La La Land sooner instead of panicking and going back for the third time to the Moulin Rouge well.

 

[aftershocks]

Jackie Wong tweeted a picture of a microphone saying 2.0. I hope this means Icetalk will be coming back.
https://mobile.twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1032323740162568192

I hope they will be able to switch things up and include some video podcast interviews with 2.0

I love this team. Here's hoping Haven can get her individual jumps more consistent this season, too.

Hopefully that will be the case. The issue regarding technical consistency has to be contingent upon fully healing from her knee injury. D/F are one of my fave U.S. pairs teams, and I wish them lots of success going forward.

Not to be obtuse, but how is the US able to be so strong in dance and yet so weak in pairs? Is it a practice time issue? I'm assuming dance lifts, spins and step sequences are easier to practice on crowded sessions, while pairs elements require renting out the whole sheet of ice? I clearly have no clue what goes into this, but it is striking how the US is so strong in one discipline and weak in the other.

There have been great responses to your query in this thread. I would like to discuss further in U.S. pairs thread.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

It was a tough comp. Eric/Meagan were skating to awful Coldplay and stumbling around. Jessica Dube and her new partner were there (I can't remember his name :/), but Sui and Han did their cute cowboy program and were good and Caydee and John and Rockne and Mary Beth were good as well. The seating was strange too. When I was watching ladies we grabbed a seat in the front row and I felt like we were practically on the ice. Plus both Alissa Cziney and Jeremy Abbott were there as spectators despite declining the invite. It was a weird event all around. Sorry for the thread drift, but point is altitude plays a huge part in CC performances.

Jessica Dube's partner was Sebastien Wolfe I think?

 

[screech]

Not to be obtuse, but how is the US able to be so strong in dance and yet so weak in pairs? Is it a practice time issue? I'm assuming dance lifts, spins and step sequences are easier to practice on crowded sessions, while pairs elements require renting out the whole sheet of ice? I clearly have no clue what goes into this, but it is striking how the US is so strong in one discipline and weak in the other.

There are compulsory dances that a section of each practice day was dedicated towards for all skaters (at least at my club in Canada back when I was skating). So skaters were all exposed to the different dance styles, and tested them with a partner (which was usually a coach, or sometimes a dancer coming in from another club). I personally would have loved to get into ice dance. I was one of the few skaters at my club that loved the dance part of the day. I had passed all my gold dances (which at my club meant I could sit out dance time), but I instead started working on some diamond dances. Unfortunately there were only I think 2 male skaters at my club, and none at my dance level, so I couldn't continue further. Though I did occasionally partner those male skaters for their tests.

At my club, I was one of the rare skaters exposed to trying pairs, and that was because I skated out of town in one of the major centres in the summer. Due to my petite frame and the jumps I was landing, the pairs coach asked me if I wanted to try off-ice lift classes (2x per week), so I did. Based on that, the coach suggested that I come back to the club after Canadians that year (when most teams would split up) and try out for pairs. I didn't (because my parents didn't want me to move away), but I always wished I had.

So unless a skater is at a centre where pairs is a 'thing', they won't have exposure to it, yet they will have exposure to dance. It makes sense that there would be more of a move towards that discipline. Also, there isn't as much of a height issue in dance.

 

[Sylvia]

The articles that come out after Champs Camp are never specifically about the skating at the camp...I'm not sure reporters are even allowed into the performances/critiques. Reporters are there to get news on music, skaters' training/coaching changes, goals for season...it's about generating a buzz to get fans interested as the season starts.

I don't have a problem with keeping the monitoring sessions private. They are for the benefit of the skaters and coaches, not the fans.

THIS. From what I know, any media folks present are not allowed to watch practices or monitoring sessions.

ETA - the team building exercise usually is the final event at Champs Camp and is not a main or time-consuming focus. I noticed Brandon Frazier's IG video was never posted in this thread: https://www.instagram.com/p/BmxEQCPFkfzjeokrtejzQJZ99cAO2HN4x05bVI0/?taken-by=brandon_f1992
There were 2 group dances, led by Serge Onik and Randi Strong: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bm3jg0XAuMs/?taken-by=sergeonik

 

[Sylvia]

Biggest hit at Champs Camp this year seems to have been the puppies! : https://www.facebook.com/usfigureskating/videos/vb.209118026341/1904849986237558/?type=3&theater

ETA:

Avid dog lovers include:
Mariah, Nathan, Christina C., Jason: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bm8fRtvgY3D/?taken-by=usfigureskating
Zach, Bradie, Tarah & Danny: https://www.instagram.com/p/BmzFbgBAyIr/?taken-by=usfigureskating
Angela (3 pics): https://www.instagram.com/p/BmyQpR5l4rU/?taken-by=angelawangsterl
More Christina (3 pics): https://www.instagram.com/p/BmxFooGDfAY/?taken-by=christinacarreira
Mariah again: https://www.instagram.com/p/BmxWhR7lpX8/?taken-by=mariahsk8rbell
Karen & Jason: https://www.instagram.com/p/BmxFigkBkx9/?taken-by=karebearsk8
Joe Johnson includes 3 puppy photos (#2, #4 with Karina & he's in #5): https://www.instagram.com/p/BmyxZF4FXlI/?taken-by=joejohnsonice

 

[Cleo1782]

Jessica Dube's partner was Sebastien Wolfe I think?

Yes. You are correct. I couldn't think of his name off the top of my head, but that's who she was with that year.

 

[Yazmeen]

Of course. Lynn’s job is to protect (provide spin for) US skaters.
The longer that time passes without a substantial report on Gracie’s condition, the less I’m convinced about her shape being back to elite level. Show us the videos.

I have lessons at Aston Iceworks at times, and I'm afraid they don't have a policy of providing videos to demanding skating fans just because they think they have the right to check on a skater's status. And even if I would see Gracie there, there's not a shot in hell I'd give out any info on how she's doing without her permission or that of her coaches. Which I wouldn't be asking for in the first place.

 

[Frau Muller]

I have lessons at Aston Iceworks at times, and I'm afraid they don't have a policy of providing videos to demanding skating fans just because they think they have the right to check on a skater's status. And even if I would see Gracie there, there's not a shot in hell I'd give out any info on how she's doing without her permission or that of her coaches. Which I wouldn't be asking for in the first place.

We already got reports from Dave Lease’s sources, so nobody is waiting for yours.