CAS rules Valieva can compete - reactions/fallout, plus some details from the hearing

[Nadya]

I hate to be pedantic but (who am I kidding I love to be pedantic obvs) but your suspension does not go POOF if you unknowingly ingested something due to a tainted supplement. Your suspension might be shortened, but you still get a suspension. This has been discussed multiple times but these threads are long and varied so I don't blame you for missing that.
See Nadejda Sergeyeva's case.
Exactly, this is a perfect example. Her suspension did not go POOF, but she was able to bargain down to accepting 8 months instead. She got the lighter 8 months suspension, but still had a suspension because athletes are responsible for knowing everything they ingest.

If her suspension term shortened, then it obviously matters. You're contradicting yourself.

 

[bladesofgorey]

Hi where am I contradicting myself? Point to it, thanks. I was just correcting your misinformation that suspensions go "puff" in your words if they are due to substances being unknowingly ingested in supplements using your own athlete example. I'm done trying to share helpful info with you in good faith, sorry I even tried.

 

[Allskate]

If her suspension term shortened, then it obviously matters. You're contradicting yourself.

No, I don't think you are understanding the distinction between a suspension and the final penalty. There is a difference between the initial suspension and the ultimate penalty. You can be subject to an immediate suspension and then later have your penalty shortened due to the degree of your fault.

 

[Sylvia]

Quotes from skaters after today's SP, part 2 via The Associated Press:

Figure skaters sound off on Valieva's Olympic doping scandal

Figure skaters and coaches competing against 15-year-old Russian Kamila Valieva shared a range of views about the doping scandal that has caused havoc at the Beijing Olympics and overshadowed the marquee women’s contest.

apnews.com

Obviously it’s not a level playing field and it should be. Every sport should be a level playing field and, you know, we don’t get that opportunity here. But that’s the decision they’ve made and obviously we have to stick with that … I feel sorry for anyone who gets on the podium here. They won’t get that experience of being on the podium, and I feel like that would be such a big part of being at the Olympics, getting your medal. So it’s quite sad that they won’t get their medals.” — Natasha McKay of Britain.

“I didn’t believe it ... The girls are such that nothing would have helped them if they didn’t have that kind of talent. It’s just funny to even think about it. They’re just talented and do a lot of work. So no one should have any questions on that point ... A gold medal or a silver or bronze, it could be a shame if you don’t receive it. It’s an Olympic medal and it should be there in any circumstances.” — Anastasiia Shabotova, a Russia-born skater competing for Ukraine. [hmmm, certainly has changed her tune since 2019 ]

“It’s obviously a very touchy subject. I can only speak for myself and that I advocate for clean sporting. That’s the whole idea of the Olympics and our careers, in general … It’s a tough situation for everyone. And it’s unfortunate that it’s taking place at the Olympics … It feels wrong to punish people who have done this the right way.” — Mariah Bell of the United States.

“I definitely feel sorry for her. I think this doesn’t really have much to do with her herself. She’s pretty much a product of the adults around her. So I have a lot of empathy for her because she, regardless of everything, she did have to get on the ice and work hard, no matter what happened around her. She did endure a lot. So I feel sorry for her, but rules are rules and they should be followed.” — Alexia Paganini of Switzerland.

“I don’t know all the facts about it, so I’ve tried to focus on like what I can do good for skating and how to put a positive, positive thing into this Olympics. But of course, you know, it’s difficult to decide because I don’t even know if she tested positive in both the tests or anything … So I hope that the leaders of this investigation do what they should do. And yeah, I think the time will tell … If I would be fourth, then it would be a really tough time.” — Josefin Taljegård of Sweden.

“I really was looking forward to be on the podium with my teammates and just sharing that moment, and I’m sure I’m not the only one that felt that way. … But what can we do? It’s out of our control and, whatever it is, we just got to go with it and go with the flow.” — Karen Chen

 

[MacMadame]

pot-laced scrambled eggs

I am trying to decide if those sound awesome or disgusting.

Btw, I can a misunderstanding being repeated in the thread RUSADA did not delay sending the sample to the lab. The Jan 19th date was from an interview where someone said that, if the sample had arrived on Jan 19th, it would have been processed in the allowed time. But RUSADA is saying they sent the sample in right away but forgot to mark it as expedited.

 

[Karina1974]

And of course, KV is the only Russian athlete who has taken banned substances...........I would guess, but it is only a guess, that others were in the same boat but were not caught.

I still cannot believe this is happening but then again I can believe it given the players.

Thanks to poster who corrected my comment about the US gymnastics team (it was a long time ago)! still, the rule was followed and they lost the bronze.

WRT poster who said the gymnast was not a minor at 16........I suggest a minor is anyone under the age of 18?!

That was me. I thought you were referring to Raducan as a minor, as in not one of the tip prospects for medals, gymnast. Not minor as in age.

 

[sk9tingfan]

Phil Hersh's latest in the NY Times:

Kamila Valieva’s Sample Included Three Substances Sometimes Used to Help the Heart. Only One Is Banned. (Published 2022)

The medications were revealed in a document filed in her arbitration hearing on Sunday.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Sylvia]

Kamila Valieva’s Sample Included Three Substances Sometimes Used to Help the Heart. Only One Is Banned. (Published 2022)

The medications were revealed in a document filed in her arbitration hearing on Sunday.

www.nytimes.com

Tariq Panja (not Phil Hersh who is freelancing for NBCOlympics.com for this Olympics) is the NY Times journalist who wrote this article and has been covering this story.

Excerpts:

But according to documents reviewed by The New York Times and confirmed by someone who took part in the hearing, the Stockholm laboratory that carried out the examination of Valieva’s sample also found evidence of two other substances that can treat the heart but are not on the banned list. Valieva even listed them, Hypoxen and L-carnitine, on a doping control form.
The presence of trimetazidine in Valieva’s system may have been a mistake, Russian and Olympic officials have suggested. But the discovery of several substances in the sample of an elite athlete, especially one as young as Valieva, was highly unusual, according to a prominent antidoping official.
“It’s a trifecta of substances — two of which are allowed, and one that is not allowed,” Travis Tygart, the chief executive of the United States Anti-Doping Agency, said when told of the discovery. He added that the benefits of such a combination “seem to be aimed at increasing endurance, reducing fatigue and promoting greater efficiency in using oxygen.”

L-carnitine is allowed when taken orally, Tygart said, but prohibited if given in large amounts by an infusion or IV because it could give an unfair performance-enhancing advantage. It was not clear how Valieva had taken the supplement, or the concentration in her sample. […]
The document said that Valieva had declared three products on a doping control form that was submitted with the now-failed test. Those products, the document said, were L-carnitine, Hypoxen and Supradyn, an immunity boosting supplement.

 

[sk9tingfan]

Tariq Panja (not Phil Hersh who is freelancing for NBCOlympics.com for this Olympics) is the NY Times journalist who wrote this article and has been covering this story.

Excerpt:

Sorry for missing the byline. Phil tweeted so I assumed that it was his.

 

[Rob]

Thanks @Sylvia for finding the disciplinary information. Just as a reminder for those who think these are entirely the same situation, it is not. Kim missed a drug test and received a reprimand due to lack of experience. Valieva didn't miss a drug test. She was tested and it came back positive. And Sylvia's bolded section clearly indicates minors were intended to receive the same disciplinary measures as anyone else. CAS rewrote precedent. Nothing will change my opinion about that.

Yes certainly seems like they ignored the analysis.

 

[Bigbird]

I understand Kaori's feelings on this. She has to be angry about it all.

Why feel sorry for someone and a team who are wilfully cheating at an Olympic Games? The entire team should be tested for metabolic by-products of the banned TMZ. This is the height of presumptiousness. If I were an athlete I'd specifically refrain from answering questions about the ROC team. They shouldn't even be at these Olympics.

 

[bardtoob]

Can you imagine being a 15 year old girl telling the world you drank your grandpa's backwash during a pandemic as defense for a failed drug test?

...

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

Can you imagine being a 15 year old girl telling the world you drank your grandpa's backwash during a pandemic as defense for a failed drug test?

...

I'll do anything for gold, but I won't do that...

 

[Cant Skate]

I'll do anything for gold, but I won't do that...

And how many of us just sang that? ?

RIP Meatloaf

 

[Tesla]

And how many of us just sang that? ?

RIP Meatloaf

I did! ??‍

 

[Darkverse]

Why feel sorry for someone and a team who are wilfully cheating at an Olympic Games? The entire team should be tested for metabolic by-products of the banned TMZ. This is the height of presumptiousness. If I were an athlete I'd specifically refrain from answering questions about the ROC team. They shouldn't even be at these Olympics.

What makes you think they haven't been? All the skaters have been through the same testing as Valieva.

 

[Sylvia]

"Asterisk" next to figure skating results if Valieva's in top three, IOC confirm

The results of the women’s singles figure skating competition at the Winter Olympics here will be provisional should Kamila Valieva finish in the top...

www.insidethegames.biz

The results of the women’s singles figure skating competition at the Winter Olympics here will be provisional should Kamila Valieva finish in the top three, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) has confirmed.
IOC spokesperson Mark Adams said an "asterisk" would be marked against the outcome of the event and no flower ceremony would be held on the ice at the Capital Indoor Stadium should Valieva seal a podium spot after the free skate segment tomorrow.
...
"There will be asterisks against the results tomorrow because they will be preliminary pending further investigation," said Adams.

David Owen [opinion column]: Valieva, the weaponisation of sport and the premium value of Olympic time:

David Owen: Valieva, the weaponisation of sport and the value of Olympic time

Not being in Beijing, I have taken the view, until now, that I should leave commentary pertaining to Kamila Valieva to colleagues who are.

www.insidethegames.biz

6. Does the World Anti-Doping Code need clarifying? The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) panel which cleared the way for Valieva to compete in the women’s singles in Beijing appears to think so, asserting that the Code is “silent with respect to provisional suspension imposed on protected persons”.
The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) argues that the Code “does not allow for specific exceptions to be made in relation to mandatory provisional suspensions for ‘protected persons’”.
But if the panel ruling sets a precedent, sport may have a problem and even if things can be ironed out by WADA’s Foundation Board, rather than awaiting the next wholesale revision of the Code, I can see that it might take a while to solve it to everybody’s satisfaction.

 

[Sylvia]

Yahoo! article by Henry Bushnell:

Kamila Valieva saga raises question of Olympic age limits: 'anything older than 15'

Multiple Olympic figure skaters support the idea of raising the minimum age to compete at the Games given the turmoil surrounding 15-year-old Russian skater Kamila Valieva.

sports.yahoo.com

Excerpts:

The ruling, to many current and former skaters, highlighted an inherent conflict in sporting rules. “I feel like if you can skate here, you can also get sent back [home],” [Alysa] Liu said. If you’re mature enough to compete with adult athletes, the thinking went, you’re mature enough to be punished as one.

But she and others supported an age limit for a variety of reasons if it produced a level playing field. “Bodies would be more developed and there'd be less injury,” Great Britain’s Natasha McKay, 27, said. Several Olympians said it would incentivize longevity instead of teen stardom, and drive the sport in a healthier direction.
“You want these athletes to have an opportunity to have this be a profession,” U.S. skater Mariah Bell, 25, said. “Not like a one-year run at it.”

“When I was 15, 16, I was a completely different person,” U.S. skater Karen Chen, now 22, said Tuesday. “I’m completely different body-wise, brain-wise. I was not afraid of anything. I didn’t have doubts. I don’t know if robot is the right word, but my coaches would tell me to go do something and I’d do it.” ... “But now,” she said, at 22 — young in almost any walk of life, but old in women’s figure skating — if she did the repetitive jumps she’d do as a teen, “my body would tell me, ‘you need to chill out for a second because everything hurts.’ I guess it’s part of development and part of maturing.”
And it isn’t a negative, many argue. It’s a positive development. Some skaters “peak young,” McKay acknowledged. But she didn’t have the “mental approach” at age 15 that she did at 19, when she began putting everything into skating. By then, she and others are more capable of making that decision to “put everything into” the sport for themselves.

A more restrictive age minimum might keep stars out of the Olympics. But it would reform training programs, and ease ramp-ups to peaks, and perhaps keep stars in the sport well beyond their teenage years.
If an age limit had made Liu ineligible for Beijing, “I'd just be like, ‘OK, I just have to wait a little bit longer,’” she said. “Which is fine. I've trained so long, might as well just do a little bit longer.”

 

[Sylvia]

Another article by Henry Bushnell:

'Serious questions’ raised about Kamila Valieva's ‘grandfather’ excuse

Kamila Valieva's 'grandfather' explanation is a 'long shot,' according to USA's anti-doping chief.

sports.yahoo.com

Valieva and her team argued accidental use at a Feb. 9 hearing before the Russian Anti-Doping Agency. RUSADA lifted a provisional suspension, and the Court of Arbitration for Sport later decided not to impose one for the positive test, which stemmed from a sample submitted on Dec. 25 of last year.
Along with the sample, Valieva submitted a doping control form that declared use of three legal substances — supradyn, a multivitamin; L-carnitine, a chemical often found in heart supplements; and hypoxen, a drug that the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency has sought to ban in the past, Tygart said.
The latter two and trimetazidine, or TMZ, “are all aimed, essentially, at increasing endurance, reducing fatigue,” Tygart said.

When asked about the possibility that one of the permitted substances had been contaminated with TMZ, Tygart said that the amount of TMZ found in Valieva’s system — 2.1 nanograms per millileter — was roughly 200 times as much as was found in the sample of another athlete who previously proved contamination.
Tygart said, and expert witnesses summoned by Valieva’s team conceded, that the 2.1 nanograms were “actually very consistent with the tail end of an excretion,” if a full dose of TMZ had been taken days earlier.
WADA also pointed out in a legal filing, leaked via the Dossier Center, that “the athlete’s explanation does not involve a
contaminated product. It involves some form of exposure to a medication that contained trimetazidine as an ingredient.”

"WADA also pointed out in a legal filing, leaked via the Dossier Center, ..."

The Dossier Center - Mikhail Khodorkovsky

The Dossier Center tracks the criminal activity of various people …

khodorkovsky.com

The Dossier Center tracks the criminal activity of various people associated with the Kremlin. Currently, power in Russia is held by a de facto criminal organization that operates from within Kremlin. This criminal organization consists of a complex web of individuals, ranging from high-ranking politicians to regional police chiefs.
The Dossier Center maps out this network, compiling extensive case files against corrupt individuals and the institutions they may control. These reports will enable future Russian courts, as well as non-Russian enforcement agencies, to open criminal cases against corrupt criminals in and associated with the Kremlin.

ICYMI this link & summary, posted earlier in this thread:

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but someone got their hands on the hearing document and it's viewable in embedded form on this website:

Камилу Валиеву решили не отстранять от Олимпийских игр

Мы узнали, как ее защита объясняла допинг в пробе

dossier-center.appspot.com

A few things to note:

1. Valieva does not say that she drank from her grandfather's glass, just that her grandfather takes the medication for his heart and she thinks that she must have tested positive through contamination that way
2. Her lawyers are the ones saying it was likely from a drinking glass, or picked up through food on a counter that had residue, etc.
3. Her grandfather testified via video from a car that he take TMZ and held up a package of the medication
4. No objective source has been able to verify that her grandfather takes this so far (no prescription produced, medical chart, etc.)
5. Valieva herself already takes a different heart medication (?!?) -hypoxene "when asked at the hearing why she took hypoxen, her mother responded that she took it to treat "heart variations" Interesting given that it's marketed as the following "Hypoxen provides a reduction in oxygen consumption with significant physical exertion, improved tissue respiration, a decrease in mental and physical fatigue, and the successful implementation of labor-intensive physical operations." I mean I guess your heart beating faster during exertion could be considered a heart variation. (lol)
6. Valieva also takes supplements like L-Carnitine but did not blame tainted supplements for the positive test.

 

[MacMadame]

So there goes the "minuscule amount" defense.

 

[skatingguy]

So there goes the "minuscule amount" defense.

It seems more, and more clear that they made a mistake and mistimed when they should have stopped giving her the medication in the lead up to Russian Nationals.

 

[Sylvia]

NHK World's NEWSROOM TOKYO program includes a snippet from Kaori Sakamoto at the post-SP press conference and comments from ASAKAWA Shin, Japan's Anti-Doping Agency chief executive (with English translation), running from 5:45-7:15: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/programs/#1002

 

[Icetalavista]

what's odd is that Scherbakova and Trusova also haven't tested positive. Why would they not get what Valieva's getting, and if they did get it, why would it be out of their systems quicker? Eteri's whole group is now suspect IMO.

 

[bladesofgorey]

via: @Sylvia :

When asked about the possibility that one of the permitted substances had been contaminated with TMZ, Tygart said that the amount of TMZ found in Valieva’s system — 2.1 nanograms per millileter — was roughly 200 times as much as was found in the sample of another athlete who previously proved contamination.
Tygart said, and expert witnesses summoned by Valieva’s team conceded, that the 2.1 nanograms were “actually very consistent with the tail end of an excretion,” if a full dose of TMZ had been taken days earlier.
WADA also pointed out in a legal filing, leaked via the Dossier Center, that “the athlete’s explanation does not involve a
contaminated product. It involves some form of exposure to a medication that contained trimetazidine as an ingredient.”

spittake.gif

 

[MacMadame]

what's odd is that Scherbakova and Trusova also haven't tested positive. Why would they not get what Valieva's getting, and if they did get it, why would it be out of their systems quicker? Eteri's whole group is now suspect IMO.

Everyone's body metabolizes things differently. And how your body metabolizes things can change depending on circumstances too.

 

[fsfann]

Everyone's body metabolizes things differently. And how your body metabolizes things can change depending on circumstances too.

Or... the doctor screwed up this time.... made a mistake and got caught....

 

[MacMadame]

Or... the doctor screwed up this time.... made a mistake and got caught....

But don't you think they'd make the same mistake for all the ones on the cocktail?

 

[flyingsit]

I can understand everyone else going ahead and competing even though Valieva was allowed to, because it's the Olympics and only happens every four years. But if she is allowed to keep her medals, which I expect, I'd really love to see the rest of the skating community boycott Rostelecom. Or even have the ISU pull it from Russia.

 

[Colonel Green]

But don't you think they'd make the same mistake for all the ones on the cocktail?

Maybe they have different approaches for different skaters.

 

[baramin]

Were all skaters tested, or just Valieva as the winner of the competition?