Adverse Analytical Finding for Spain's Laura Barquero after Olympics Pairs SP

KCC

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,783
If after an initial urine test comes back positive-in-trace-amounts, it would be helpful if WADA then had the ability to test hair (or maybe something else?) that could distinguish between a 1-time contaminant/incidental contact and continued use of higher doses over time. Yes, people can shave most of their body, but would they really remove all of their hair (nose, eyebrows/lashes, etc.)? There has to be a better way to test the athletes because otherwise, there will always be an excuse and a "well, you can't prove it" defense.
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
4,882
I can think of four senior women skaters (five if you include Kyoko Ina) who have had drug testing issues.

How many senior men skaters have had these issues?
 

tony

Throwing the (rule)book at them
Messages
17,764
I can think of four senior women skaters (five if you include Kyoko Ina) who have had drug testing issues.

How many senior men skaters have had these issues?
Everyone talks about Berezhnaya but Evgeny Sviridov also got suspended at the same time.
 

manhn

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,816
Is there a reason why skiers get lip blisters but not skaters? They are both in cold environments.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
Messages
58,942
A steroid is an unconditional dope, but what is the point of using it in this case? To take 11th place? Moreover, from the very beginning it was clear that she would not be among the leaders. All this is doubtful.
Sometimes it's the cases where the stakes are smallest is where cheating of any kind is most rampant. (Same with politicking in sports.)

Decades ago, supplements were largely exempted from regulation in the US. The regulation of drugs and food is much more strict. There are a number of problems with supplements not containing exactly what is on the label, or having additional ingredients not on the label. The chance of ever getting this regulatory gap fixed is (IMHO) slim and none. Any athlete taking this stuff runs the risk that they will ingest a banned substance.
The supplement industry is pretty powerful too. When there was legislating being proposed to regulate them more, they got people to write letters to Congress saying not being able to get certain supplements would be medically damaging. I forget the exact phrasing but it was something about taking supplements that aren't manufactured by big companies.

Such as Vitamin D supplements in large doses such as 10,000 IU. That's not something that you could pick up at the grocery at that time. I get my iron supplements from smaller companies. Most places sell iron that is made with ferrous salts and that kind isn't as easily absorbed and is more likely to cause constipation.

I think they had a point that the regulations would be hard on smaller companies but I think the current level of regulation just doesn't work.

If after an initial urine test comes back positive-in-trace-amounts, it would be helpful if WADA then had the ability to test hair (or maybe something else?) that could distinguish between a 1-time contaminant/incidental contact and continued use of higher doses over time. Yes, people can shave most of their body, but would they really remove all of their hair (nose, eyebrows/lashes, etc.)? There has to be a better way to test the athletes because otherwise, there will always be an excuse and a "well, you can't prove it" defense.
If WADA wanted to switch to using hair samples, they could just say if you can't provide a hair sample, you are presumed guilty. That's what they do for urine samples now. And then people wouldn't shave all their hair anymore.
 

SpiffySpiders

Active Member
Messages
14
It is and it isn't. It kind of gets to why the anti-doping rules can't depend on national regulatory regimes, including whether drugs require prescriptions or are over-the-counter. Athletes have to be informed and careful, but is it at this point asking too much of them?

Or is the occasional torment of a Jessica Calalang or possibly in this case Laura Barquero necessary "collateral damage?"
It seems harsh, but if you want (semi)clean sport, then yes. There are countless drugs that can be performance-enhancing, including many that wouldn't initially seem to be likely candidates.

I've participated in skating discussions online, including here I believe, where I often was the sole voice speaking about how PED use occurs in all sports, figure skating included. A lot of people didn't like hearing that figure skaters are no different from other athletes and that yes, doping occurs. Almost always, I was met with a dozen excuses, all focused on how figure skating can't benefit from PEDs or that figure skaters aren't like those who compete in typical sports. Can we put any of that to rest yet, or are we still stuck at Ok, maybe Russian figure skaters might dope?

Anti-doping can't focus on treating athletes with minimal suspicion. There is too much money and political force involved, and competitive people, such as high-level athletes, do not need pampering. As soon as an athlete shows real potential, they begin to learn about their responsibilities around staying clean and also, unfortunately, how to game the testing system. If testing and prohibited substance lists aren't strict, it becomes far too easy to cheat.

I've been through the frustration of checking every supplement, every sports drink, every medication, heck even sunscreens and hair product ingredients against banned substance lists. Athletes who take any medication, including over-the-counter preparations, have to remember to always check for themselves exactly what they are using and not trust others to do that for them. It becomes a habit. This is all part of what you sign up for when you choose to play sports beyond a recreational level. Is it annoying? Yes. Do people make mistakes that can get them in trouble unfairly? Also yes, but the alternative is an even less level playing field for all athletes than what already exists.

While I am NOT saying this is in direct relation to the case discussed itt, I feel it needs to be mentioned that not every athlete wants to know if they are being given something illegal that aids any part of their training. It's a bit of ignorance is bliss thinking that helps alleviate any personal emotions around guilt.

Oh, and TUEs are very much abused. I often feel like the rules are as strict as they are in other areas partly to counterbalance the loopholes created by the TUE side of things.
 

Miezekatze

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,963
Off topic: Which novel is ghat? Sounds interesting- good read?

Re Barcquero- I hope this is solved soon and ruled as a mistake. 😢 I like this pair very much and it would be a sad thing for Spanish skating if it were true.
OT: @Hedwig: "Ein Grab für zwei" by Anne Holt. I find it very interesting. Didn't know it was obviously inspired a bit by a real case.
 

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,639
If after an initial urine test comes back positive-in-trace-amounts, it would be helpful if WADA then had the ability to test hair (or maybe something else?) that could distinguish between a 1-time contaminant/incidental contact and continued use of higher doses over time. Yes, people can shave most of their body, but would they really remove all of their hair (nose, eyebrows/lashes, etc.)? There has to be a better way to test the athletes because otherwise, there will always be an excuse and a "well, you can't prove it" defense.

Apparently double bleaching your hair removes pretty much all traces of whatever might be in it. OT but Mr Antmanb once had a telephone enquiry at his salon from a guy asking if he could double bleach his hair and then dye it back to its natural colour, Mr Antmanb was puzzled and warned him about the damage it would cause to his hair but he was adamant so Mr Antmanb booked him in. Turns out the guy travelled up from London, paid cash and wanted it doing because he was going to be drug tested for work purposes and he was a recreational drug user and didn't want to fail the test. He messaged Mr Antmanb afterwards to say he'd passed the drug test so I guess it must work for some things.
 

Elka

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,724
Bukin is supposedly another, since he was not given an invite to the 2018 OWG.
Someone in one of these threads about the matter (There are so many of them that I cannot find it at the moment) linked a summary about doping history in figure skating. There was a quote regarding Sochi which made me think about Bukin, though he was not mentioned related to that case.

ETA: OT, but Anne Holt's books usually are very good and interesting. Have to find that one.
 

seabm7

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,146
According to Marca, Barquero used Trofodermin for the blade cut between her fingers.


This is the same ointment which gave the 18 month suspension for Therese Johaug.
 

millyskate

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,747

antmanb

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,639
Can double bleaching be detected? If so, they'd likely prohibit it as a masking agent.
I don't know, but I don't believe WADA do anything other than urine testing at the moment so it's probably a moot point, but if they did ban bleach as a masking agent for hair tests that would mean athletes wouldn't be able to colour (or at least lighten) their hair :eek:

I guess we wouldn't have to read post after post about a skater needing her roots doing as the silver lining :lol:
 

Sylvia

TBD
Messages
80,951
According to Marca, Barquero used Trofodermin for the blade cut between her fingers.


This is the same ointment which gave the 18 month suspension for Therese Johaug.
Thank you.

So 18 months would likely be the minimum amount of suspension time in Laura's case as well?
 

maatTheViking

Roxaaannnneeee!!!
Messages
5,639
Could drugs be detected in nose hairs? They wouldn't be bleached or removed, right?
Some people have very few? I don't think I've any detectable nose hairs.

I feel like asking for hair is problematic - athletes might be bald, female figureskaters generally shave/wax their armpits, cyclists often their legs, regulating hair on people's private parts seems weirdly icky, and so forth.

Could it be used as a voluntary double test? idk.

everyone pees, at least!
 

skategal

Bunny mama
Messages
12,071
IIRC, hair testing can bring back false positives more often than the pee tests.

There have been many mothers who lost custody of their kids through Child and Family Services Action due to inaccurate hair tests coming back false positive for drugs.

There is a whole discourse on it in the legal and research fields.
 

Hedwig

Antique member
Messages
22,607
Some people have very few? I don't think I've any detectable nose hairs.

I feel like asking for hair is problematic - athletes might be bald, female figureskaters generally shave/wax their armpits, cyclists often their legs, regulating hair on people's private parts seems weirdly icky, and so forth.

Could it be used as a voluntary double test? idk.

everyone pees, at least!
If it worked I think it is less private than having to pee in a cup a person you don't even know is holding for you....
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information