2019-20 Canadian Men news & updates

Erin

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10,427
Had been waiting for a skate like that from Roman for so long and honestly had lost hope it would ever come. Lesson to learn: never lose hope. Roman is the most deserving successor of Patrick in my book and if Skate Canada doesn't put him on the team for World's immediately after this decisive win, what's Nationals good for, what's the point being a national champion?

The point of being the national champion is to be the national champion. It isn’t a world championship trials, no matter what people might believe. Skate Canada has criteria for who they name to the world team, and nationals is only one piece of that criteria. In this case, I think they should name Roman because he has generally had a good season, outside of a blip at Skate Canada International. I do worry about him in the SP at Worlds, but no one else has really made a stronger case for themselves.

The skaters seem to know that nationals isn’t the only deciding factor. For example Schumacher shrugged when asked if 4CC is next. Bausback said she is hoping to get to go to Worlds (in her case, there is also the world minimum issue). Nationals is generally weighted pretty heavily, but it is only one piece of the puzzle.
 
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wickedwitch

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14,886
Three things regarding why Roman should have been given the spot outright:
1) Nam and Keegan aren't exactly the paradigms of consistency -- which is why Skate Canada is in this position in the first place. Plus, Nam's already bombed at Worlds after replacing a skater he was behind at Nats.
2) Roman won by 17+ points. Nam was closer to 4th than 1st.
3) This didn't come out of nowhere; he's building on his good skates at NHK.

But honestly, I think this is really about wanting to send I/B without being obvious they're dropping the younger W/M, and Roman's the unfortunate victim.
 

puglover

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2,176
Three things regarding why Roman should have been given the spot outright:
1) Nam and Keegan aren't exactly the paradigms of consistency -- which is why Skate Canada is in this position in the first place. Plus, Nam's already bombed at Worlds after replacing a skater he was behind at Nats.
2) Roman won by 17+ points. Nam was closer to 4th than 1st.
3) This didn't come out of nowhere; he's building on his good skates at NHK.

But honestly, I think this is really about wanting to send I/B without being obvious they're dropping the younger W/M, and Roman's the unfortunate victim.
I am with you. This was not even close.
 

Rhumba d’Amour

Active Member
Messages
47
Three things regarding why Roman should have been given the spot outright:
1) Nam and Keegan aren't exactly the paradigms of consistency -- which is why Skate Canada is in this position in the first place. Plus, Nam's already bombed at Worlds after replacing a skater he was behind at Nats.
2) Roman won by 17+ points. Nam was closer to 4th than 1st.
3) This didn't come out of nowhere; he's building on his good skates at NHK.

But honestly, I think this is really about wanting to send I/B without being obvious they're dropping the younger W/M, and Roman's the unfortunate victim.

AND about wanting to save a spot for Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen, I believe. Canada knows that it is unlikely to retain the third dance spot without them.

But I’m completely thrilled for Roman, what a magnificent job he did!
 

screech

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6,407
After the overt shade Skate Canada threw at USFS the last Olympics, it’s incredibly hypocritical for Sadovsky not to get the Worlds spot outright. His win was definitive.
And considering the backlash (and results) last time they sent Nam to Worlds over someone who beat him at Canadians...

As much as I think Keegan or Nam would likely get better results at Worlds, there is no denying that Roman absolutely earned that spot. His win was by a huge margin and 100% deserved. And he medalled on the GP circuit this season, whereas Keegan did not.

I personally don't think that Keegan plans on continuing through to 2022, so it makes sense to give Roman the opportunity to have this experience over him. Yes, it will be an insane amount of pressure, and Roman might not get us 2 spots for next year, but Nam hasn't been that dependable at Worlds in the past either.
 

Winnipeg

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3,963
I thought SK always sent the sr Champ to Worlds and it is only the additional spots that are under debate?
 

Winnipeg

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3,963
Meaning.....Roman would be named and would go unless injured before the event

All 4 senior champs would go?
 

Sonata

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719
Skate Canada is often looking to 4CC for clarity. But oftentimes, the skaters don't perform that well and there's no clear cut choice. What if Roman is the 2nd finisher among the three but less than 5 points below the top Canadian?

I do love Roman's skating. His posture and edges make me nostalgic! Personally I believe he would come up on top if all 3 skate well. But I wish the best to all 3, they seem like a nice bunch.
 

Zazy

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438
The point of being the national champion is to be the national champion. It isn’t a world championship trials, no matter what people might believe. Skate Canada has criteria for who they name to the world team, and nationals is only one piece of that criteria.

Decisions like these take a lot of the prestige away from nationals then - it's basically Challenge but with more of the top skaters, just one more competition. As long as whoever Skate Canada wants to send doesn't completely bomb, they'll get another chance to qualify. Even if they've already failed to make the long program at worlds twice.

Skate Canada is often looking to 4CC for clarity. But oftentimes, the skaters don't perform that well and there's no clear cut choice. What if Roman is the 2nd finisher among the three but less than 5 points below the top Canadian?

I fully expect that they'll send whoever is the first Canadian, even if it's by 0.5 points.
 
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Rhumba d’Amour

Active Member
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47
Backstage clip of Roman hugging his coaches as soon as his national title was confirmed:
Not to suggest how Skate Canada should run it’s green room operation but—Roman had to await the results crouched in a stairway somewhere?
 

Seerek

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5,437
Let be known, a fair number of the other Olympic Sports in Canada do have separate "Nationals" and "Worlds Trials"
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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5,840
Gone are the days when Four Continents was just a glorified Senior B. It sounds like the event is going to be quite tense for skaters and couples not immediately named to the world team. A lot is going to hinge on skating a strong short program, too.
 

Erin

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10,427
Decisions like these take a lot of the prestige away from nationals then - it's basically Challenge but with more of the top skaters, just one more competition. As long as whoever Skate Canada wants to send doesn't completely bomb, they'll get another chance to qualify. Even if they've already failed to make the long program at worlds twice.

I don’t buy this argument. Tons of countries don’t use their nationals to decide assignments, and the titles themselves still have prestige. This is an old fashioned discussion.
 

screech

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6,407
I don’t buy this argument. Tons of countries don’t use their nationals to decide assignments, and the titles themselves still have prestige. This is an old fashioned discussion.
If going based on the GP series, I'd have the Canadian men ranked
1. Nam
2. Keegan and Roman

After Canadians, I'd have them ranked for the season the same way they placed. There is no clear argument for sending Nam or Keegan over Roman.
I understand why Skate Canada is doing a skate off, but if they're not determining the Worlds assignment based on Canadians, then they shouldn't do it based on a single result at another competition either.
 

Emdee

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2,184
Based on their instagram stories (I hope the link works), it looks like Keegan and Nam did an exhibition together to Always Look on the Bright Side of Life, including Keegan doing a backflip over Nam.
Hopefully they show it whenever the Gala airs.
Yes they did. It was a lot of fun.
But, am now gutted about the SC decision regarding Roman. His win was decisive And neither Keegan or Nam has international cred....neither are Patrick Chan.
 

Zazy

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Messages
438
If going based on the GP series, I'd have the Canadian men ranked
1. Nam
2. Keegan and Roman

After Canadians, I'd have them ranked for the season the same way they placed. There is no clear argument for sending Nam or Keegan over Roman.
I understand why Skate Canada is doing a skate off, but if they're not determining the Worlds assignment based on Canadians, then they shouldn't do it based on a single result at another competition either.

Exactly. I get that nationals results isn't the only deciding factor and if Joseph Phan had somehow won nationals in a landslide it would be perfectly understandable not to immediately name him to the team. But call me old-fashioned, I do think nationals should mean something.
 

manhn

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13,510
Do people have a problem with the Danadians being selected to the Worlds team instead of S&F? We have had controversies when SC decided a Worlds team based solely on Nationals, see Ferreira over Buttle, Robinson over Chouinard, Chartrand over Larkyn (even though it was a spot that was almost never gonna have any effect on future spots).

I have no problem with 4CC being used as a factor. It’s not like Nam has a particularly higher credibility with international judges. His best performance was SC (yeah, yeah, it has an international panel but home field advantage matters).
 

Marco

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14,850
If going based on the GP series, I'd have the Canadian men ranked
1. Nam
2. Keegan and Roman

After Canadians, I'd have them ranked for the season the same way they placed. There is no clear argument for sending Nam or Keegan over Roman.
I understand why Skate Canada is doing a skate off, but if they're not determining the Worlds assignment based on Canadians, then they shouldn't do it based on a single result at another competition either.

True. Perhaps SC isn't looking at a skate off at 4CCs so much as to see how Roman can handle the additional pressure of being a National Champ. I hope they still send Roman even if he doesn't place as the top Canadian man - as long as he is like 5 points within the top Canadian man. If Keegan or Nam place higher by a landslide, then there's a dilemma.
 

Vase

Active Member
Messages
231
I like that they have 4CC to see how things are going and how pressure is handled. And I think assessing the whole season of international competitions is wise. Skate Canada wants what’s best for everyone. I’m glad it’s not me that makes the decision.
 

Sonata

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719
Do people have a problem with the Danadians being selected to the Worlds team instead of S&F? We have had controversies when SC decided a Worlds team based solely on Nationals, see Ferreira over Buttle, Robinson over Chouinard, Chartrand over Larkyn (even though it was a spot that was almost never gonna have any effect on future spots).

I have no problem with 4CC being used as a factor. It’s not like Nam has a particularly higher credibility with international judges. His best performance was SC (yeah, yeah, it has an international panel but home field advantage matters).

Good point, because I actually wouldn't have a problem with the Danadians being selected, as they have a medical reason for missing nationals and their pre-season was so good. And it's ice dance. I don't see them imploding and falling 3 times.

Some of the examples you used pre-date 4CC, which is why it was so controversial not to use Nationals result. I don't think it came up much before. Actually, I believe choosing Robinson over Chouinard set back the ladies program by a few years and influenced Skate Canada's approach in choosing teams. (I believe Chouinard, despite her inconsistency, would have gotten 2 women's spots and this would have allowed other women to develop, and there would have been a backup when Susan Humphreys couldn't skate her free at worlds and lost 1 spot at the Olympics.)

In this case, Roman did really outskate the Nam and Keegan by a lot. There's a strong argument that he should be sent.
 

screech

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6,407
Michael Slipchuk's explanation.
Is he bashing all non-Patrick Canadian men here as basically useless? Or is he saying they were only choosing one non-Patrick man to accompany him?
“Nam has had a good season, Keegan has continued to evolve, and Roman has stepped up,” Slipchuk said in meeting with the media before the trio skated their long programs (they had produced the top three short programs on Friday). “As much as everyone says we are only sending one man to Worlds, I’ve said if you really think about it, in the 10 years Patrick (Chan) was champion, most years we were sending one man to Worlds. But we’re confident with our men.”
 
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