Skate Canada names teams for 4CC and Junior Worlds

[RoseRed]

Do you mean Ruiter? The YOG team was named on December 5th. Based on the quotes from the Skate Canada article, she is very excited about this opportunity.



Presumably she knew when accepting this assignment she knew she would not be able to compete at 4CC. And she would have had to indicate her interest and fill in all the appropriate paper work with Skate Canada and the COC in order to be considered for the YOG assignment.

The world team will not be named until after 4CC. Ruiter could still be named to the team pending getting the minimums. We don't know yet.

For sure. And she would have known as well that she was otherwise very likely to get a 4CCs spot, given the Canadian women's field. So evidently she/her team were prepared to prioritize YOG over 4CCs, which I can understand giving that it's a somewhat unique event that doesn't occur every year. Some people on a message board can think YOG is a pointless competition all they like, but that's obviously not how many athletes, including Kaiya, see it. And I think Kaiya's opinion on the matter is somewhat more important, given that it's her career.

 

[hoptoad]

I'm honestly a little surprised that she didn't get the Worlds min in three tries. Does anyone know just how close she was in terms of missed jumps or other elements? Going for too much difficulty? Inconsistent? Just bad luck?

 

[Evgeniafan]

I'm honestly a little surprised that she didn't get the Worlds min in three tries. Does anyone know just how close she was in terms of missed jumps or other elements? Going for too much difficulty? Inconsistent? Just bad luck?

I was at Cranberry cup and the tech callers were very strict, so any Q was definitely deemed under rotated. And she still came in 3rd.

 

[RoseRed]

I'm honestly a little surprised that she didn't get the Worlds min in three tries. Does anyone know just how close she was in terms of missed jumps or other elements? Going for too much difficulty? Inconsistent? Just bad luck?

Going by the Skate Scores website:

Cranberry Cup – 30.15 TES, attempted a 3Lz-3Lo combo that was < and got -5s, level 3 on two spins and the steps
Autumn Classic – 30.14 TES, combo was 3Lz!-3T< (mainly -3s), 3Fq (mainly -1s), level 3 on one spin and the steps
GP Skate Canada – 28.32 TES, fell on the 3Lz, did 3F-2T for the combo, level 3 on two spins

And as a bonus, domestic events:
Challenge – 30.69 TES, combo was 3Fq-3T (-4s and -5s), 3Lz!q (0 to -3), level 3 on one spin
Nationals – 29.17 TES, combo was 3F-3T< (-2s and -3s), 3Lzq (mainly -2s), level 3 on one spin and the steps, level 1V on one spin

She would need 32 TES for Worlds.

She tends to give away at least a little bit on levels, often has a rotation call or two, and also generally doesn't get that much GOE on things.

 

[skatingguy]

Why can't Skate Canada send it's skaters to the Denis Ten Memorial, and let them all get the minimums in one fell swoop?

 

[danafan]

Ruiter also got 30.96 TES at her first senior international in Austria in fall 2022 (which still counts for this season). She had a slight -GOE on her triple flip but landed her triple lutz triple toe rotated in the second half, and still didn't get the score. That remains her highest TES for each segment per the ISU page.

 

[Colonel Green]

Kaiya isn’t a great spinner (somewhat oddly, given who her coach is) and typically gets minimal jump GOE even when there aren’t rotation issues, so she’s regularly coming right up to the SP minimum but never quite getting there.

 

[Alilou]

So five competitions this season (plus the one in Austria in 2022) including nationals and she didn't get world's minimum at any of them. Hmmm, and there are those who think she should be sent out to get them? Seems like a poor bet to me.

 

[jlai]

I think under usual circumstances she would be sent to 4cc, except there is a YOG and by the looks of it, she chose YOG.

 

[Jammers]

Bullhockey. She had one Sr intl last season and 3 this season, one of which (Cranberry) she would have had to fund herself since Skate Canada didn't pay for any of their skaters to compete there. Her other two were ACI in mid-September and SCI in late October. Why wasn't she sent out to at least one additional Challenger or European senior B in November? That is NOT "plenty of chances" no matter how you slice it.

WYOG is a pointless competition as far as her future development as a competive skater - and I'd be shocked if the audiences in Gangwon are much larger than the ones she's skated in front of at JWC last year or SCI this year - ie not even close to a full house. It is NOT a comparable event to Worlds or the actual real Olympics, despite what some of you would like to tell yourselves. She absolutely should have been sent to 4CCs instead if WYOG and it's unconscionable that Skate Canada allowed that choice to be made by Ruiter and her team.

These decisions by Skate Canada is why Canada has fallen so far behind the other big skating nations they should have been prepared to send her to 4CC's earlier in the season knowing she still didn't get the minimum score for Worlds and that there was a chance she could win Canadian Nationals. Now the Canadian Senior ladies champion is not going to either Worlds or 4CC but JW's again. That is not a good look for a skating powerhouse like Canada.

 

[Alilou]

These decisions by Skate Canada is why Canada has fallen so far behind the other big skating nations they should have been prepared to send her to 4CC's earlier in the season knowing she still didn't get the minimum score for Worlds and that there was a chance she could win Canadian Nationals. Now the Canadian Senior ladies champion is not going to either Worlds or 4CC but JW's again. That is not a good look for a skating powerhouse like Canada.

So she had a senior international last season, plus 3 this season, plus the domestic Challenge competition, plus Nationals. Six chances in less than a year and she didn't get the SP min at any one of them. Not one. She may have won nationals, but even there she didn't get worlds SP min. How many chances is she to get? Why would anyone at this point think that she'd get them at 4CC with the kind of pressure that would have. She may have won nationals but she's just not ready for worlds yet.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

So she had a senior international last season, plus 3 this season, plus the domestic Challenge competition, plus Nationals. Six chances in less than a year and she didn't get the SP min at any one of them. Not one. She may have won nationals, but even there she didn't get worlds SP min. How many chances is she to get? Why would anyone at this point think that she'd get them at 4CC with the kind of pressure that would have. She may have won nationals but she's just not ready for worlds yet.

Even if Ruiter gets the SP min, she still might not make the cut for the free skate at Worlds. It's too bad her injury slowed her development, as I think her skating might have been more Senior-like now if she'd been healthy and able to compete at the 2022 pre-Olympic nationals. It's also unfortunate that despite finishing 10th in both event segments, Schizas ended up finishing 12th at the 2022 Worlds. Had she finished 10th, both Schizas and Ruiter (assuming she could attain the minimums) would have gone last year.

 

[Alilou]

Even if Ruiter gets the SP min, she still might not make the cut for the free skate at Worlds. It's too bad her injury slowed her development, as I think her skating might have been more Senior-like now if she'd been healthy and able to compete at the 2022 pre-Olympic nationals. It's also unfortunate that despite finish 10th in both event segments, Schizas ended up finishing 12th at the 2022 Worlds. Had she finished 10th, both Schizas and Ruiter (assuming she could attain the minimums) would have gone last year.

Yes it's all a bit of a perfect storm of things going wrong for her, and for Schizas. If Schizas has skated even close to her best she'd have won nationals and this discussion wouldn't be happening. But it still remains that Schizas BOY indicates she has a far far higher chance of making the FS at worlds what Ruiter, even if Ruiter had worlds SP mins.

 

[Karen-W]

You know, the thing is, regardless of whether Kaiya would make it out of the SP at Worlds or not, there are a lot of things that the federation isn't doing right. I was listening to the TSL recap of Canadians with Meagan Duhamel guesting and she pointed out that it used to be that Michael Slipchuck and his team would evaluate the programs of all the top-level skaters and help them with maximizing their TES. Either that isn't happening or Kaiya is unable to implement the changes suggested by the High Performance directors. I got the impression that this is no longer happening and skaters are being left to their own devices with regard to maximizing their TES. Kaiya is the first high-level skater for Scott Davis and I really have to wonder just how much support he and her team are receiving from the federation to get Kaiya to the next level. It just doesn't seem to be there and that's a huge failing when she does win Nats and can't be sent to Worlds because she is still missing the SP TES min - and looking over @RoseRed's analysis it seems like a few minor fixes to her spins and step sequence would get her over that hump.

 

[tony]

You know, the thing is, regardless of whether Kaiya would make it out of the SP at Worlds or not, there are a lot of things that the federation isn't doing right. I was listening to the TSL recap of Canadians with Meagan Duhamel guesting and she pointed out that it used to be that Michael Slipchuck and his team would evaluate the programs of all the top-level skaters and help them with maximizing their TES. Either that isn't happening or Kaiya is unable to implement the changes suggested by the High Performance directors. I got the impression that this is no longer happening and skaters are being left to their own devices with regard to maximizing their TES. Kaiya is the first high-level skater for Scott Davis and I really have to wonder just how much support he and her team are receiving from the federation to get Kaiya to the next level. It just doesn't seem to be there and that's a huge failing when she does win Nats and can't be sent to Worlds because she is still missing the SP TES min - and looking over @RoseRed's analysis it seems like a few minor fixes to her spins and step sequence would get her over that hump.

Scott Davis also coached Vaughn Chipeur to Worlds and Olympics positions, so I don’t think it’s anything to do with support behind him.

I think it’s just another example of Skate Canada not fully implementing the resources and leadership that was once there. Remember, according to court documents, Slipchuk was also very supportive of a Soucisse and Firus country switch until other powers at SC tried to stop them in their tracks.

My long-term friendship with Duhamel aside, I still think the Federation should utilize her for something like this. She’s shown time and time again that she’s very savvy with scoring, knows the levels almost instantly, knows where skaters continuously lose levels, and it’s not a chore for her.

 

[coppertop1]

Scott Davis also coached Vaughn Chipeur to Worlds and Olympics positions, so I don’t think it’s anything to do with support behind him.

I think it’s just another example of Skate Canada not fully implementing the resources and leadership that was once there. Remember, according to court documents, Slipchuk was also very supportive of a Soucisse and Firus country switch until other powers at SC tried to stop them in their tracks.

My long-term friendship with Duhamel aside, I still think the Federation should utilize her for something like this. She’s shown time and time again that she’s very savvy with scoring, knows the levels almost instantly, knows where skaters continuously lose levels, and it’s not a chore for her.

Slipchuk has been the High Performance Director for a while, so my question is: What went wrong? Did he just get too comfortable at isn't as effective? Or is Skate Canada itself in need of an overhaul?

 

[Karen-W]

My long-term friendship with Duhamel aside, I still think the Federation should utilize her for something like this. She’s shown time and time again that she’s very savvy with scoring, knows the levels almost instantly, knows where skaters continuously lose levels, and it’s not a chore for her.

She has a lot of great insights, especially to the strategy and scoring, and it's clear any time one listens to her on any podcast. Funnily enough, DL suggested she start a consulting business for this and she seemed open to the idea. If Skate Canada won't utilize her, maybe the rest of the world can.

 

[Colonel Green]

I was listening to the TSL recap of Canadians with Meagan Duhamel guesting and she pointed out that it used to be that Michael Slipchuck and his team would evaluate the programs of all the top-level skaters and help them with maximizing their TES. Either that isn't happening or Kaiya is unable to implement the changes suggested by the High Performance directors. I got the impression that this is no longer happening and skaters are being left to their own devices with regard to maximizing their TES. Kaiya is the first high-level skater for Scott Davis and I really have to wonder just how much support he and her team are receiving from the federation to get Kaiya to the next level. It just doesn't seem to be there and that's a huge failing when she does win Nats and can't be sent to Worlds because she is still missing the SP TES min - and looking over @RoseRed's analysis it seems like a few minor fixes to her spins and step sequence would get her over that hump.

That Kaiya struggles to get some spin/step levels doesn’t mean there are problems with the design of those elements.

 

[Karen-W]

That Kaiya struggles to get some spin/step levels doesn’t mean there are problems with the design of those elements.

As I stated - either the elements aren't being maximized or Kaiya is unable to execute those elements to get the higher levels. That seems like a straightforward fix, moreso than fixing the consistent q or < she gets on some jumps, and something that should have been addressed by now.

 

[jlai]

it’s hard to say. We just don’t know

The fed’s faults have been listed in detail already. That said I am sure there are plenty of tes issues to address as well

 

[Alilou]

As I stated - either the elements aren't being maximized or Kaiya is unable to execute those elements to get the higher levels. That seems like a straightforward fix, moreso than fixing the consistent q or < she gets on some jumps, and something that should have been addressed by now.

Perhaps (actually I think likely) it is being addressed. Why would it not be? I imagine her coach is aware. She's trying, no doubt, but, despite SC's shortcomings I don't think the blame necessarily lies there. There's a skater, and a coach, who both presumably know what's required. And she's not there yet. Perhaps it's as simple as that.

 

[pat c]

Perhaps (actually I think likely) it is being addressed. Why would it not be? I imagine her coach is aware. She's trying, no doubt, but, despite SC's shortcomings I don't think the blame necessarily lies there. There's a skater, and a coach, who both presumably know what's required. And she's not there yet. Perhaps it's as simple as that.

Exactly. We know nothing. Ms. Ruiter wants to go to YOG, Skate Canada is aware and is ok with it.
Go Ms. Ruiter, do your best and have a blast. You have a year to steady yourself and get prepared.

 

[puglover]

I recently read an excellent article - can't seem to locate it right now - but it was of particular interest to me because it focused on two Manitoba junior skaters, Ava Kemp and Yohnaton Elizaron and their coach Kevin Dawe. Manitoba did not have a pairs program or experienced pairs coach and yet they had a young pairs team with potential and a coach willing to learn. Kevin Dawe is quoted in the article describing a very supportive program fostered by SkateCanada where experienced coaches mentored new ones and he describes getting significant help from Anabelle Langlois-Hay and later Bruno Marcotte. He made special note of the vital part they played in helping him address the fear - skater's, parent's and coach's - how to assess it and deal with it. The team is now training in Ontario with Kevin and Lee Barkell. I mention this as it speaks to SC's ability to pull resources together, at least in this circumstance, not sure why it seems missing in others. I still see Manon Perron at some competitions - she should be a terrific asset.

 

[Flip Jump]

I recently read an excellent article - can't seem to locate it right now - but it was of particular interest to me because it focused on two Manitoba junior skaters, Ava Kemp and Yohnaton Elizaron and their coach Kevin Dawe. Manitoba did not have a pairs program or experienced pairs coach and yet they had a young pairs team with potential and a coach willing to learn. Kevin Dawe is quoted in the article describing a very supportive program fostered by SkateCanada where experienced coaches mentored new ones and he describes getting significant help from Anabelle Langlois-Hay and later Bruno Marcotte. He made special note of the vital part they played in helping him address the fear - skater's, parent's and coach's - how to assess it and deal with it. The team is now training in Ontario with Kevin and Lee Barkell. I mention this as it speaks to SC's ability to pull resources together, at least in this circumstance, not sure why it seems missing in others. I still see Manon Perron at some competitions - she should be a terrific asset.

I have seen the article but misplaced before I read- Can you share link?

 

[her grace]

For sure. And she would have known as well that she was otherwise very likely to get a 4CCs spot, given the Canadian women's field. So evidently she/her team were prepared to prioritize YOG over 4CCs, which I can understand giving that it's a somewhat unique event that doesn't occur every year. Some people on a message board can think YOG is a pointless competition all they like, but that's obviously not how many athletes, including Kaiya, see it. And I think Kaiya's opinion on the matter is somewhat more important, given that it's her career.

Agreed.

We've only had a few editions of the YOG so far and it's been a mixed bag of medalists who later went on to greatness and those who didn't reach the top. It will be interesting to see what older skaters think of the event as they reflect back on their careers. For example American ice dancer Katarina Wolfkostin was asked about her 2020 YOG experience in a recent article and this is what she said:

Katarina, you earned a bronze medal for USA at the 2020 Winter Youth Olympic Games in Lausanne, SUI with a previous partner. Describe that international experience.
The Youth Olympics are pretty special. Representing the U.S. is an honor like no other, and there was this incredible enthusiasm in Lausanne, just great energy everywhere. There’s also this feeling of camaraderie and idealism in sportsmanship, you know, that we’re here and this is what sports in the world are all about. Let’s be the very best athletes and people that we can be. I loved it.

 

[puglover]

I have seen the article but misplaced before I read- Can you share link?

The Future of Pairs: A Coaching Success Story

Kevin Dawe's success with Ava Kemp and Yohnatan Elizarov of Canada points to lessons for coaching and growing the pairs field

anythinggoe.com

 

[kalamalka]

The Future of Pairs: A Coaching Success Story

Kevin Dawe's success with Ava Kemp and Yohnatan Elizarov of Canada points to lessons for coaching and growing the pairs field

anythinggoe.com

Thanks for that. I hadn't seen it. I've been following Ava and Yoni with interest since their nice 2As in the SP at Novice nationals 2 years ago. They have developed quickly, and well, especially given Yoni's collapsed lung last spring, and the coaching approach seems incredibly collaborative and productive. Amazing that they made JGPF (and JW 6th) in their first year as juniors, and silver at JGPF this year - especially having started pairs fairly recently with a coach who had no pairs experience. I hope JW goes well for them.

I also hope that SC's pairs coaching mentorship program bears more fruit!

 

[Winnipeg]

I just get the sense that the YOG is a low end competition for FS and that sending KR is a waste. SHe should be going to 4CC and Sr. Worlds.

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

I just get the sense that the YOG is a low end competition for FS and that sending KR is a waste. SHe should be going to 4CC and Sr. Worlds.

Not if it’s her decision. Perhaps she has always dreamed of being an Olympian. I think most skaters do!

 

[Aceon6]

I think under usual circumstances she would be sent to 4cc, except there is a YOG and by the looks of it, she chose YOG.

Exactly. We know nothing. Ms. Ruiter wants to go to YOG, Skate Canada is aware and is ok with it.
Go Ms. Ruiter, do your best and have a blast. You have a year to steady yourself and get prepared.

Not if it’s her decision. Perhaps she has always dreamed of being an Olympian. I think most skaters do!

I think the handwringing is silly. She’s a kid. She wants to go to the biggest event held for her peer group. There’s no reason to pressure her this year and she gets the off season to work on her rotations and spins, possibly putting her in a clear Canada #1 spot in the lead up to Milan.