sk9tingfan
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IMHO, she's in trouble, especially i light of how the US women are performing right now...
U.S. Women [#6]: The More the Merrier!
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toddlj
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Folks have been saying that for a while now, but Isabeau tends to deliver in the clutch better than most. We'll see.
I think Isabeau's in trouble in that she's no longer the clear number one. Amber, if she could put together two clean or nearly clean programs, is certainly in the conversation. Alysa, if she gets back into her prior form, is certainly a contender - especially now that her PCS is improved. Bradie is still trying to come back. Lots of the younger Seniors and rising Juniors (Ava, Lindsay, Elyce, Sarah) have made quite a splash last season/this season. There's lots of US women that could beat her now.
The other trouble I see it that Isabeau has said she knows she needs to fix her jumps, but it seems there's no effort to change them: no coaching change, no improvement in technique, etc. The jumps haven't failed her yet, but I think every skating fan knows that the failure is coming - how soon is the question. We saw issues last year, and at Nebelhorn we're seeing the judges really start to hammer them.
The other trouble I see it that Isabeau has said she knows she needs to fix her jumps, but it seems there's no effort to change them: no coaching change, no improvement in technique, etc. The jumps haven't failed her yet, but I think every skating fan knows that the failure is coming - how soon is the question. We saw issues last year, and at Nebelhorn we're seeing the judges really start to hammer them.
Karen-W
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I don't disagree with any of this, however, Isabeau has demonstrated a fairly good competitive mindset and has, the past couple seasons, put it together at Worlds when it really matters. That does and should carry weight with the USFS. Having said that, if any of these skaters, especially the young ones, demonstrate a similar capacity to consistently deliver under pressure, then they're going to put the USFS in a position to not needing to rely upon Isabeau to be the face of US women's skating. God only knows, the USFS would love to have multiple women in the mix as top international contenders and if that happens, then Isabeau becomes vulnerable and, potentially, disposable.
Wyliefan
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Isabeau is an interesting case because her mental game and her physical capability might fail her or might come through at any given time, and you never quite know for sure which one might give way. When it all comes together, as at Worlds, she's magical. But she has to work hard to make both components work (and, to her credit, she does work very hard). If it weren't for her scary jump technique, she'd be a skater for the ages. But she doesn't seem to understand the root of the problem -- that she's being taught bad technique -- or else she's so attached to her coach that she just can't make the break.
sk9tingfan
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The change in coaches, etc. should have happened 2-3 years ago...
I'm not sure it's that easy. Her father died several years ago, and it's not that easy for a single mom to just give up her job and move so her daughter can have a new coach. And there are lots of parents who very wisely do not send their kid away just so that they can train with a coach, even if they can afford it. Plus, Isabeau probably is very attached to her coach, who she has had since she was about three years old. But, I don't understand why she hasn't at least worked with a choreographer.
Do you think Isabeau would benefit from going to the the Cricket Club? They seemed to really help Evgenia Medvedeva (who had the same technical issues that Isabeau has). They taught her a new, healthier way to train and seemed to extend her career (for a while anyway, before circumstances forced her to go back to Eteri and we all saw how that worked out).
kwanfan1818
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I love Levito's new SP. The jumps marred what is an otherwise beautiful performance.
I don't think she's going to change coaches this season. And I don't think she'll change in an Olympic season. I do think she would benefit from talking to Jason about coaching changes, though, and about working with choreographers and maybe a spin specialist.
It seems like, every season, people say that Isabeau is over because of her technique and the other youngsters coming up. It might eventually happen, but so far she has multiple National titles, excellent Worlds finishes, and some nice GP medals.
We also don't know how some of these up and comers would handle it if and when the expectations and demands are on them. I don't think Isabeau was ever off a podium until the pressure got intense.
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sk9tingfan
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God, forbid!
So far, she has one National title (and one World Silver). She's not the current National Champion either (she is the National Bronze Medalist).
It's clear that Isabeau is a hard worker...so she does sneak onto the Medal stand from time to time, but we have not seen the same type of consistency from Isabeau that we see from Kaori for instance (who has won three World titles in a row). I think the jumps are holding Isabeau back (she has everything else).
Nobody is saying that she is the current national champion. You're knocking down straw horses. Isabeau has never been off the Nationals podium as a senior or a junior (and she has both a junior Nationals title and a senior Nationals title). To say that Isabeau "sneaks onto the medal stand from time to time" definitely is an understatement. Most of the times that she has competed nationally and internationally, she has been on the medal stand. Is she usually on the top of the medal stand, no? But, let's deal in reality here. She hasn't just made it to the podium "from time to time."
And speaking of reality, is anyone really equating Isabeau (or any of the current American women) with Kaori? I don't think of Kaori as being super consistent when it comes to her actual skating. It's not at all unusual for Kaori to make mistakes. That, of course, is different from whether her results are consistent. Especially the last few years, she does win a lot, including the World Championships, and it's rare for her not to be on the podium, but sometimes that's in spite of making mistakes. Kaori has tremendous power in her skating and her jumps and that really helps her with both the technical and presentation scores. I don't think Isabeau is ever going to match that no matter who her coach is. It's unrealistic.
Has she had a rocky start to this season, and did she have problems dealing with the pressure at times last season? Of course. Do most people think that Isabeau would benefit from improving her jumps? Absolutely. I suspect that a lot of people also think that it would help for her to get it together with her spins and work with choreographers. (And, this is shallow, but I think a lot of people wish she would find someone else to do her costumes.) But, she's not some occasional medalist, and she's also not going to have the streak of wins that Kaori has even if she changes to a great coach.
Maximillian
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Oh please, can we stop with the "new coach" conversation! I've been on this board for 55 years and anytime a skater falls short in their fall events, the cry immediately goes out over the FSNets, "Off with (insert coaches name here) heads!"
Wyliefan
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You have to admit it's a little more serious when the coach has taught her skater to twist herself like a contortionist into every jump.
You're unfortunately not wrong about that... It would've been much easier to fix earlier in her career.
There are a lot of good coaches in New Jersey that teach much better and more sustainable jump technique. I get why they can't move and I don't think skaters that young should be forced to move (as USFS wanted Alysa to do) in order to succeed. Lots of good coaches we've never heard of are out there - and they may even be cheaper than her current coach. Once you get a National competitor and world medalist, you can hike your prices up big time.
There's a difference between someone who is inconsistent or gets URs or has too small a name coach needs a new coach and this. This is the whole jump technique being dangerous to her health and needs to be reworked from the ground up. It hasn't failed her yet - perhaps because of her mental strength - but it will, and when it does it will fail her in multiple big ways. As I said, it's already starting to fail her in the least consequential way: the GOE and calling of her jumps.
You have to admit that this is a little bit of an exaggeration.
She doesn't twist going into every jump, much less like a contortionist. Is she really twisting like a contortionist when she's going into her axel, her loop, or her salchow? It's her flip and especially her lutz that are most problematic for her, and even then it's not simply about twisting, much less twisting like a contortionist.That said, I definitely think her jumping would have benefited from another coach. That doesn't mean that changing coaches and rinks would have been better for her and her family. I recall from a podcast Isabeau once did that it wasn't that easy for her mother to be able to find a way to get to her job and for Isabeau to have the type and amount of training she has. Even changing coaches within New Jersey might not have been that simple logistically. And I would hope that a parent would be very careful about the environment at a rink when she is leaving the kid alone at the rink every day and be very comfortable having their child travel with that coach when it's not feasible for the parent to travel. There are things other than jumping technique to take into account when determining what's best for a child and for a family. I read Nathan Chen's memoir, and I would never do what his parents did even if I knew that my child would be guaranteed an Olympic gold medal.
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Lutzes&Loops
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To be fair, that coach has shaped her into a beautiful skater that she is, too. It’s not just the flaws, the same coach helped her develop her strengths, but somehow that gets overlooked.
She has been with her coach since she was like 5, she is like family to her. The bond is likely so deep that it’s incredibly difficult to rip it all apart and move on to someone different with the sole goal of fixing the technique.
The other thing I don’t ever see considered is, which coach at this point could possibly feel more invested and more committed to her and her success, to take her on? Its pure risk…
kwanfan1818
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There have been coaches who have sent their skaters to other coaches/specialists where they have weak spots and where their students have been faltering. Including the coaches of more than one Olympic medalist who were also family. You don’t have to move to get that, given the number of specialists that are on the east coast Amtrak corridor, let alone accessible in NJ via bus or commuter rail.
AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)
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???
I pretty much think of her as always being on the podium, except for worlds two years ago, where she was what fourth?
Let’s see, she medaled at all of her challengers last year, both her Grand Prix, the Grand Prix final, I think. She medaled at nationals, then medaled at worlds, I can’t think of many podiums that she has not been on….
People say that her technique is holding her back. Not really… As much as some don’t like her technique it’s not holding her back ….she’s the current world silver medalist just behind Kaori. She seems elite and world class enough to me. There’s only one title she’s missing …. the world gold medal. I mean I don’t understand all of the talk about her.
Frau Muller
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I like the floating lyricism of Isabeau but not her jumps since becoming senior. She’s trying her best but it doesn’t seem to come naturally. She needs to “Kaori” her way to the future - have solid lone triples and one solid 3-3 combo, allowing PCS to carry her through to a medal. Her lyricism is her hallmark.
mtnskater
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Weighing in on Isabeau, I personally preferred her Swan Lake short program because she is one of the few, if not only, current female elite skaters that can do classical music justice right now. She really stands out in the field with her style. Many judges tend to reward skaters who do classical music well. Maybe bring Swan Lake back or a version of it for the Olympic year. But that being said, I thought the new Audrey program was very good and she expressed the music very well for such a new program. I love how she packs her programs with unusual moves in between and in and out of jumps and spins. How she finishes everything. Love her simple black dress. Her lines are so good she needs simple and elegant costumes like a ballet dancer. I like her in shorter skirts like her white dress from last year that the Ohio designer made for her.
I too consider her among the top in the world like ANL. She has some stiff competition coming up in the U.S. and elsewhere, but she has usually been a gamer, so I still expect her to be vying for the podium.
If I could be dictator of skating I would send her to Malinina/Skornikov to really work that flip and lutz technique. And I would love to have her work with Lori Nichol or Massimo Scali for choreography. But I do give credit to her coach for doing a heck of lot right with her in her skating. And her coach mostly choreographs really top programs that for me have been memorable and that I really enjoy.
I think her flip and lutz hold her back a bit. She doesn’t usually get the highest GOE for her jumps. And she has lost some consistency in them. But being the reigning world silver medalist is a huge accomplishment for any skater. The judges clearly like and reward her overall skating. She is very motivated to make the Olympics in Italy next year and I expect to see her there.
I too consider her among the top in the world like ANL. She has some stiff competition coming up in the U.S. and elsewhere, but she has usually been a gamer, so I still expect her to be vying for the podium.
If I could be dictator of skating I would send her to Malinina/Skornikov to really work that flip and lutz technique. And I would love to have her work with Lori Nichol or Massimo Scali for choreography. But I do give credit to her coach for doing a heck of lot right with her in her skating. And her coach mostly choreographs really top programs that for me have been memorable and that I really enjoy.
I think her flip and lutz hold her back a bit. She doesn’t usually get the highest GOE for her jumps. And she has lost some consistency in them. But being the reigning world silver medalist is a huge accomplishment for any skater. The judges clearly like and reward her overall skating. She is very motivated to make the Olympics in Italy next year and I expect to see her there.
AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)
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At this point, I’m not sure if fixings jumps is something that’s achievable, she’s the world silver medalist I still have her going to worlds representing the US this season. I don’t think the jumps could be reworked. Her jumps are her jumps. That missed jump in the short program to me seems like she had the Twisties, landing forward. She seemed like she didn’t know where she was in the air. Her jumps are going to be her jumps. I’m not worried really. It’s her spins I worry for.
I don't think it was the twisties. She wouldn't be landing her other jumps if she had the twisties. When you see the set up for the flip in that program, it probably makes it more difficult for her to do the flip. It's one jump, one time, in a program that obviously is very new since she didn't do it at Cranberry last month. Now is the time for her to discover the problems with the program and address them. Considering how new the program is, I think it looks good. IMO, it has a lot of promise.
Rukia
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lol I feel like every year we go through this with Isabeau for the past couple years. Look, I don't think her jump technique is super sound, and it may be catching up with her, or it may just be her usual early season jitters and she'll shake it off later in the season.
And I don't think her jump issues are as simple as "send her to a specialist." To me, it feels like she doesn't quite trust them sometimes. That's part of why I think she slows way down going into them (I say this because I don't trust any aspect of my skating and always try to slow down going into things lol). Usually some amount of speed helps you get up and around, but she really depends on using her entire body to go up and has to torque her torso a little weirdly to do that and get around. It's worked mostly successfully for her in the past, and it may or may not continue to. But that's not going to be something easy to fix. If she even has to fix it remains to be seen.
The only possible issue I can see is if she has a weaker gp season and some of the other us women have stronger ones, then she's going to have to have a strong nationals to keep in the mix. However, this is just the start of the season, there is a lot of time, ice is slippery, etc etc. There's really no way to predict what's going to happen.
And I don't think her jump issues are as simple as "send her to a specialist." To me, it feels like she doesn't quite trust them sometimes. That's part of why I think she slows way down going into them (I say this because I don't trust any aspect of my skating and always try to slow down going into things lol). Usually some amount of speed helps you get up and around, but she really depends on using her entire body to go up and has to torque her torso a little weirdly to do that and get around. It's worked mostly successfully for her in the past, and it may or may not continue to. But that's not going to be something easy to fix. If she even has to fix it remains to be seen.
The only possible issue I can see is if she has a weaker gp season and some of the other us women have stronger ones, then she's going to have to have a strong nationals to keep in the mix. However, this is just the start of the season, there is a lot of time, ice is slippery, etc etc. There's really no way to predict what's going to happen.
mtnskater
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Anyone found a link to Elyce’s 71 point short program at Nebelhorn? I have only been able to find Isabeau on YouTube.
AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)
Get it Amber 😝
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AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)
Get it Amber 😝
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Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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So, uhm... Anyone who was screaming last week about Elyce getting the SkAm host TBD spot over Sarah care to revisit their pronouncements about who has GPF-qualifying potential and DESERVES a 2nd GP?
That's an impressive 213.33 Elyce just scored at Nebelhorn.
That's an impressive 213.33 Elyce just scored at Nebelhorn.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
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