U.S. Women [#5]: Remain on the Dance Floor

[Vagabond]

yeah, but then you should apply your same theories and principles to everyone… Years of Lindsay and inability to rotate triple jumps… She got lucky in Japan.

You do realize that Amber Glenn is six years older than Lindsay Thorngren, don't you?

 

[jiejie]

yeah, but then you should apply your same theories and principles to everyone… Years of Lindsay and inability to rotate triple jumps… She got lucky in Japan.

What "years of Lindsay" are you talking about? Lindsay is 18 and in only her 2nd full season as a senior...with growth spurt in those years to boot. Amber is 24 and in her 8th or 9th senior season. Nice try though.

 

[bladesofgorey]

Depending on how the placements go at both events this has the potential get messy when the World team is decided. Really surprising choice, but relieved to hear she's not injured!

 

[Debbie S]

Good to know Ava's NHK win will qualify her for A envelope (I thought you needed to medal at Nats and/or make the World team).

 

[Karen-W]

yeah, but then you should apply your same theories and principles to everyone… Years of Lindsay and inability to rotate triple jumps… She got lucky in Japan.

LMAO - how many years now has Amber been trying to rotate a clean 3a? How many competitions over those years has she been clean in both the SP & FS? Your clear bias is showing through here and you know the biggest threat to your girl making another Worlds team is Lindsay, especially since Ava just WD from Nats.

 

[Rukia]

I find this whole back and forth hilarious because none of them are very consistent at anything lolol

 

[Karen-W]

I find this whole back and forth hilarious because none of them are very consistent at anything lolol

Huh? Lindsay's been pretty consistent this season...
199.16 - Cranberry
189.52 - SCI
198.73 - NHK

Glenn a little less so...
189.63 - SkAm
185.39 - GP Espoo
177.51 - Golden Spin

Ziegler a bit more up and down...
183.79 - Cranberry
157.39 - Lombardia
173.60 - Finlandia
200.50 - NHK

I think it's a huge gamble for her to put all her eggs in the 4CCs basket and hope she can replicate her NHK result. I'd actually understand Thorngren or Glenn taking that gamble more. NHK was a perfect storm result for her that probably won't happen again - and if she winds up having a Lombardia-type competition, she'll probably finish between 10th-12th. The one thing she has in her favor for next season is that she's currently sitting at 11 on the SB list and I don't think there are 13 women below her who are capable of scoring 200+ and knocking her out of the Top 24, so she'll be guaranteed at least one GP initially and probably will get 2 (all but guaranteed if she can climb her way into the WS Top 24 also).

But back to Nats and the 2nd Worlds spot - who knows what will happen? Presuming the whole field performs as they have internationally this fall, Lindsay & Amber would be the leading two candidates to nab that spot and it's likely to be a close decision. My money is on Lindsay but I can respect anyone who bets on Amber next week.

 

[Frau Muller]

Ava Marie Ziegler has withdrawn from nationals and has been replaced by Brooke Gewalt

https://x.com/anythinggoe/status/1748028178210152651?s=46&t=t-qfJxDjad9-j4B-GsMqGg

NOOOOOOOO!!!! ?

 

[zigzig]

Weird. She hasn't really established herself beyond a flukey win at a bizarre NHK so the decision def raises some red flags.

 

[Private Citizen]

This is definitely one of the most bizarre choices I've seen. I'm not sure how to read it, other than Ziegler and her team think she's unlikely to be top two at Nationals and are taking her out of consideration for Worlds?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the USFS has never waited until 4CC to name the World team (despite what many fans wish!). And there are plenty of skaters who are choosing to do both, so I don't see why Ziegler should get extra consideration for having skipped Nationals.

Maybe it's addressed elsewhere (sorry!), but how did the US get into this scheduling issue anyway? Were the Nationals dates locked before either the 4CC dates or the Youth Olympics dates? Why not have Nationals a week or even two weeks earlier? Is there a gentleman's agreement not to have Nationals during the same week as Canadian Nationals or Euros due to the number of coaches who need to be in both places?

 

[On My Own]

This is definitely one of the most bizarre choices I've seen. I'm not sure how to read it, other than Ziegler and her team think she's unlikely to be top two at Nationals and are taking her out of consideration for Worlds?

This person sometimes has insider knowledge:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1748175783779057837

So it makes sense not to strain her body too much because those two competitions are placed so close together.

I think Ziegler has great potential - I hope she's recovered by 4CC and does well next season.

 

[Frau Muller]

I’m thrilled - go for 4 Cs and Worlds, Ava Marie! Maybe both Isabeau and Ava Marie will head into Worlds with big parallel wins…then they’ll meet together in a new “Roz vs Elaine” fight-out? WOWEE!

 

[Spikefan]

I find this whole back and forth hilarious because none of them are very consistent at anything lolol

You would think we were discussing Kwan, Lipinski, Hughes.

 

[airgelaal]

Lee (like Mihara) was already beaten by Ava at NHK

So what? Last season she lost to many skaters in the fall, which did not stop her from winning the championship

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

So glad to have Ziegler to argue about. With Nats so late we`ve a very large gossip gap to fill.

 

[Karen-W]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the USFS has never waited until 4CC to name the World team (despite what many fans wish!). And there are plenty of skaters who are choosing to do both, so I don't see why Ziegler should get extra consideration for having skipped Nationals.

No, they haven't ever used 4CCs as a skateoff or factor in determining the Worlds team - and their selection doc for this season does not mention it at all. Worlds team is supposed to be named next weekend after Nats.

My guess is that whatever the USFS has said publicly probably differs from what has been said privately. I mean, sure, this doesn't, technically, take Ava out of consideration for the Worlds team, but it isn't going to help her chances of being selected.

Maybe it's addressed elsewhere (sorry!), but how did the US get into this scheduling issue anyway? Were the Nationals dates locked before either the 4CC dates or the Youth Olympics dates? Why not have Nationals a week or even two weeks earlier? Is there a gentleman's agreement not to have Nationals during the same week as Canadian Nationals or Euros due to the number of coaches who need to be in both places?

I know it was discussed somewhere but I can't recall where. The ISU selected Shanghai for 4CCs back in April or May 2022. The USFS announced Columbus as host for Nats last January. So, in theory, they would have known the turnaround time was going to be tight.

Also, recall, a year ago, Budapest was supposed to be hosting Euros and it WAS supposed to be this week. When Budapest withdrew and the ISU reopened the bids, Kaunas put in for a week earlier. So, you could be onto something about there being a gentleman's agreement to not schedule on top of Euros or Canadians.

 

[On My Own]

You would think we were discussing Kwan, Lipinski, Hughes.

I take offense to this as a Sasha Cohen stan. She was consistently inconsistent, give her some credit, for f*ck's sake.

 

[her grace]

If Ziegler’s injured, then that makes the decision make more sense.

Huge opportunity for Thorngren if she can show her steady consistency from this season. Also another opportunity for Glenn to show she can put two good programs together.

 

[BittyBug]

The ISU selected Shanghai for 4CCs back in April or May 2022. The USFS announced Columbus as host for Nats last January. So, in theory, they would have known the turnaround time was going to be tight.

They would have known since the ISU announcement but that doesn't mean they could have moved the timing for Nats despite the advance notice.

While the selection of Columbus was announced a year ago, the RFP for bids, which would have included the dates, would have been sent 2+ years prior. Bids include preliminary arena and hotel contracts, and depending on the locations submitting bids, they would likely be working around competing events such as NBA or NHL games, conventions, and concerts, so it may not have been possible for their selected location to move the date of the event.

And planning for Nationals - forming an LOC, recruiting volunteers, ticket sales, etc. - starts more than a year in advance of the event, so if their chosen location couldn't move the date, switching to a different location with only a year's notice would be difficult given lack of lead time (not to mention they'd have to resolicit bids, etc.).

 

[Sarah]

Without knowing anything, my guess is that this decision was made in consultation with US Figure Skating. Some skaters seem to do well with back to back events, other don't. Some skaters are injured a lot, others aren't. I know nothing here, could it be that Ava is recovering from an injury and her team doesn't feel that she could get through 2 intense competitions back to back? This schedule is rough. I anticipate seeing a lot of tired skaters at Four Continents. And if any of of them don't think they can do both and stay healthy, they should pull out--of one or the other. Health is more important than my disappointment.

I can't see US Figure Skating being OK with a skater saying, Four Continents is more important so we're just blowing off Nationals. Thanks for the assignment! There has to be more to the story that we're not getting. This is why I suspect a discussion was had and they all agreed that she could pull out of Nationals.

What this means for the rest of the season? No idea.

 

[Frau Muller]

I can't see US Figure Skating being OK with a skater saying, Four Continents is more important so we're just blowing off Nationals. Thanks for the assignment! ….

Similar to Jacob Sanchez being sent to the Youth Olympics…

Hey - same coaching team for both Jacob and Ava Marie: Selezneva & Makarov. Just an odd coincidence. USFS’ Far-East Team.

 

[Karen-W]

Similar to Jacob Sanchez being sent to the Youth Olympics…

Hey - same coaching team for both Jacob and Ava Marie: Selezneva & Makarov. Just an odd coincidence. USFS’ Far-East Team.

Uhm, wrong. All of the skaters sent to the WYOG knew they would have to miss Nationals - agreeing to forego Nats this year was part of the selection process.

It seems pretty clear that Ava had no intention of missing Nats until very recently.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

You do realize that Amber Glenn is six years older than Lindsay Thorngren, don't you?

I’m not an ageist. And I don’t comment on womens age or appearance.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

What "years of Lindsay" are you talking about? Lindsay is 18 and in only her 2nd full season as a senior...with growth spurt in those years to boot. Amber is 24 and in her 8th or 9th senior season. Nice try though.

all the ones on juniors, Queen‘s gambit, last year. I mean it’s not like she just popped on the scene on September 15.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

LMAO - how many years now has Amber been trying to rotate a clean 3a? How many competitions over those years has she been clean in both the SP & FS? Your clear bias is showing through here and you know the biggest threat to your girl making another Worlds team is Lindsay, especially since Ava just WD from Nats.

There you are. Oh man, I waited so long last night waiting for you to chime in. In fact, most of my posts in this thread just so I can poke the bear lol

let’s see… what else can I add in here… ?? I think I’d rather see someone with clean, triples and powerful jumps then someone who goes to review on almost 75% of the jumps.

 

[happycamper2554]

let’s see… what else can I add in here… ?? I think I’d rather see someone with clean, triples and powerful jumps then someone who goes to review on almost 75% of the jumps.

Nothing to review when amber does single jumps in the second half of the program…..

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Nothing to review when amber does single jumps in the second half of the program…..

Exactly. Clean as a whistle. ??

 

[skatfan]

Maybe it's addressed elsewhere (sorry!), but how did the US get into this scheduling issue anyway? Were the Nationals dates locked before either the 4CC dates or the Youth Olympics dates? Why not have Nationals a week or even two weeks earlier? Is there a gentleman's agreement not to have Nationals during the same week as Canadian Nationals or Euros due to the number of coaches who need to be in both places?

I think US and Canada try not to overlap - which is harder in an Olympic year - remember 2014 Davis and White when got to have Marina with them and Virtue/Moir didn't?

US Nationals is usually this same week in non-Olympic years - it was exactly the same last year in San Jose. Last year, 4CCs was Feb 7-12 last year, and my hazy memory is that it usually is in February in non-Olympic years. It's 4CCs that has moved - I don't remember it happening this early except in an Olympic year.

 

[Frau Muller]

I hope that coaches Selezneva and Makarov are ready for their Far East Tour!

 

[sk9tingfan]

Update on Ava Marie Ziegler; thank goodness she's not unjured:

Ava Ziegler withdraws from figure skating nationals to focus on Four Continents

Ava Ziegler, the U.S.' No. 2 women's singles skater this season, will miss nationals.

www.nbcsports.com