Russian women news & updates, 2021-22 season

[rfisher]

Didn't mishin trash someone (Nugmanova?) for leaving and then blocked her from going to another group?

Yes

 

[AxelAnnie]

Note: Raf had to keep Nathan Chen's mother from coming to competitions so she would not interfere with what Nathan needed to do in his programs. You can read an interview of Raf saying that Nathan's mother in the 2018 Olympics decided what jumps Nathan put in his SP, which was not practiced. Raf knew Nathan needed to do only what he had practiced due to the pressure of the Olympics. He knew when Nathan told him what jumps he would do, that there would be no chance of a medal. Raf was right. Raf knew what was needed for that - or any - competition. Eteri does also. Keeping parents out of practice is not abusive.

And with good reason.

 

[Sylvia]

Note: Raf had to keep Nathan Chen's mother from coming to competitions

Clarification: He never forbade Nathan’s mom from attending competitions in person. He has spoken highly of her role in his success overall.

 

[hanca]

That wasn't as bad as I was imagining.


I can name two right off the top of my head... Mishin and Moskvina. I'm sure I could name others if I thought about it.

You see, you named only two and you are already wrong. Mishin spoke in interview very badly about Nugumanova. He also kicked her out of his group and withdrew her from the nationals where she qualified.
And he ended career of Alisa Lozko. Alisa didn’t do anything wrong, except of trying to leave his group and went to Tutberidze. Not only he stopped the transfer, he made sure no one would take her on. She eventually ended her skating career because she struggled to find a coach, thanks to him.

I am not sure whether Moskvina ever did speak about anyone badly, but if she didn’t, she is one of the very few!

 

[starrynight]

She was dissatisfied in the US and went back to Russia because it wasn't enough to be coaching those who could pay and didn't work up to her standards.

Oh yes, of course Tutberidze preferred what she could do in Russia with the machinery of the Russian system at her back. I’m sure that prime picks of 100s of screened skaters with full government backing is a coaching dream. Sure beats teaching adult skaters and some kids as a hobby.

I was more trying to look to the future. Where does this go? Putin most likely will not back down in Ukraine… takes the whole country… imprisons or murders the president… leaves a huge trail of destruction… perhaps threatens other nations… Sanctions continue, Russia introduces martial law, economy is ruined,Russia remains isolated from the world. I do think it will be a long time until Russia is welcomed back into the global community if this continues.

Whether Tutberidze and others stay loyal to the Russian system in the long term is an interesting question. Most prominent Russian coaches (with the exception of Mishin) have all left at some point. And they were still able to coach internationally, it was more that conditions, ice etc was sub optimal post Soviet era.

Also as another thought.. if we end up with a quadrennial without Russian skaters it is highly likely that the sport will evolve in different ways. Probably there will be a different scene and power structures when they return. It’s just hard to say how long all of this will last.

 

[Evgeniafan]

Didn't mishin trash someone (Nugmanova?) for leaving and then blocked her from going to another group?

Alisa Lozko. Her spins were fast and centered.

 

[hanca]

Oh yes, of course Tutberidze preferred what she could do in Russia with the machinery of the Russian system at her back. I’m sure that prime picks of 100s of screened skaters with full government backing is a coaching dream. Sure beats teaching adult skaters and some kids as a hobby.

I am sorry but this is quite an ignorant statement. When Tutberidze started coaching after her return, she had to work her way from the bottom. She got where she is through a lot of work and learning from her own coaching mistakes. Her first semi-decent skater - Shelepen- did not just fall into her lap. She was not chosen out of hundreds screened skaters. Neither was Lipnitskaya. It was only when Tutberidze started being successful that the crowds started rushing to her school and she could start choosing who they want to take. I also don’t think they do much of the measurements otherwise I don’t know how Khromykh and Tsurskaya slipped through their selection. I think they are choosing the ones who work hard. I read it already several times - she invites the new skater into her group, look at them for a short while and disappears. Lipnitskaya was left without any coaching input for a few hours! I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere hidden out of view she was checking how long the skater will motivate himself/herself to skate hard, if he/she thinks that no one is paying attention anyway.

 

[starrynight]

Yes but all of what happened previously isn’t so relevant now.

I’m reading that these sanctions are here for the long term - maybe even a decade. I think that the more interesting question is ‘what next?’

 

[Scott512]

Abuse can depend on culture, perception, etc. Also the era. Some of the things Moskvina did to motivate her skaters could be viewed as abusive now, certainly in the USA.

Didn't mishin trash someone (Nugmanova?) for leaving and then blocked her from going to another group?

Alisa Lozko. She was one of the best junior girl spinners I have ever seen and she tried to leave the professor to go to TT and be blocked her and ruined her career. This girl was Alina's best friend as a child in tartarland. A lot of the Russian girls careers ended too soon for a variety of reasons. Which is why it's a minor miracle Nastya still has a career and she had to transfer countries to continue. I feel for Anna F and Liza B. I don't know how these young talents have a long term career staying in Russia with that massive amount of competition among the ladies.

 

[Scott512]

If you agree, they why did you post that you didn't think calling an athlete a "lazy ass" wasn't abuse?


I sincerely doubt that she does.



You don't need to explain to me how abusive coaches justify what they do.

Because when I played sports in high school in college I was called a lazy a** and worse and while it p***** me off me off I did not take it as abuse. I took it as most of these coaches mean it a motivational tool. Coaches know how to coach they think they know how to motivate they can be great at coaching but maybe not at life and relationships.

 

[Bigbird]

Dare I say it, TT's harshness is an established norm in figure skating circles within Russia. So yeah you want to be champion all of this is what it takes. The ambitious results driven Type A personalities stay those who are different leave. Why are we so concerned? If Valieva's mother came to her defense with this Grandpa fable and considering the other drugs, Lipnitskaya on her powder diet, Sinkats practically training on crutches, honestly, why should we care? Seeing the reaction to Valieva and the comments of Zhulin and others why not just appreciate the efforts of clean athletes and leave the others to play with themself and such....blablabla.

 

[hanca]

Lipnitskaya was on powder diet, but her mother was a part of her coaching team! Surely one can argue it is responsibility of the parent to make sure their child has adequate nutrition. It is not as if Tutberidze took Lipnitskaya away from her mother, locked her somewhere without other adults present (such as US gymnastic training camp) and prevented her from accessing food. Lipnitskaya lived with her mother, so her mother would feed her breakfast and dinner, and she would also be ideally placed to oversee what Lipnitskaya was eating for lunch. It seems to me there is a bigger case for an abuse from a parent rather than the coach!

 

[hanca]

….. Sinkats practically training on crutches, ……

Not quite sure why Sinitsina/Katsalapov skating injured bothers you so much, when I don’t see you bothered by Virtue/Moir competing while Virtue was struggling to even walk. And how it is any different from Hanyu competing despite his injuries? And Sui/Han with their injuries? One year (I don’t remember when this was) Sui had to get the injections to be able to compete. Some problems with her legs or feet. So what makes it any different if Sinitsina/Katsalapov skate injured? Is it healthy? Of course not, but then again any elite sport is not healthy.

 

[Bigbird]

Not quite sure why Sinitsina/Katsalapov skating injured bothers you so much, when I don’t see you bothered by Virtue/Moir competing while Virtue was struggling to even walk. And how it is any different from Hanyu competing despite his injuries? And Sui/Han with their injuries? One year (I don’t remember when this was) Sui had to get the injections to be able to compete. Some problems with her legs or feet. So what makes it any different if Sinitsina/Katsalapov skate injured? Is it healthy? Of course not, but then again any elite sport is not healthy.

It was really cringey seeing how much pain she was in at a Russian competition in 2021 or 2020? The tears. I wondered if she had a choice. Ilinykh disclosed that both partner and coach took offence to her not doing as many run throughs when she dislocated her shoulder. So it raised certain questions in my head. For Tessa and Scott I honestly forgot about them because I never saw Tessa in as much pain as I saw Victoria. As for Hanyu I'm just not invested. I think he's nuts.

Maybe also for V/M they rarely spoke about it or they sucked it up until they couldn't. But Zhulin seemed to mention Sinkats being injured almost every, season, like it was some badge of honor. I mean many other teams have niggling injuries right? Maybe all this info played tricks on my mind. Or maybe as a P/C uber I just really admire their poise and how they handled their health issues and burn out. They just stepped away took care of themselves and they seemed to come back stronger. So maybe that just made it seem reckless by comparison.

 

[Bigbird]

Lipnitskaya was on powder diet, but her mother was a part of her coaching team! Surely one can argue it is responsibility of the parent to make sure their child has adequate nutrition. It is not as if Tutberidze took Lipnitskaya away from her mother, locked her somewhere without other adults present (such as US gymnastic training camp) and prevented her from accessing food. Lipnitskaya lived with her mother, so her mother would feed her breakfast and dinner, and she would also be ideally placed to oversee what Lipnitskaya was eating for lunch. It seems to me there is a bigger case for an abuse from a parent rather than the coach!

Yeah. You make my point. Why should we really care? Many parents see these strategies as a means to an end, nothing more. It just boggles the mind the lengths that we will go to for material success.

 

[MacMadame]

You see, you named only two and you are already wrong.

I only named two because I didn't feel like working too hard. As I said, they were off the top of my head.

I have read many interviews from Russian coaches and while they are blunt, they don't trash their skaters, saying they don't work hard or are Momma's Girls.

 

[caseyedwards]

It was really cringey seeing how much pain she was in at a Russian competition in 2021 or 2020? The tears. I wondered if she had a choice. Ilinykh disclosed that both partner and coach took offence to her not doing as many run throughs when she dislocated her shoulder. So it raised certain questions in my head. For Tessa and Scott I honestly forgot about them because I never saw Tessa in as much pain as I saw Victoria. As for Hanyu I'm just not invested. I think he's nuts.

Maybe also for V/M they rarely spoke about it or they sucked it up until they couldn't. But Zhulin seemed to mention Sinkats being injured almost every, season, like it was some badge of honor. I mean many other teams have niggling injuries right? Maybe all this info played tricks on my mind. Or maybe as a P/C uber I just really admire their poise and how they handled their health issues and burn out. They just stepped away took care of themselves and they seemed to come back stronger. So maybe that just made it seem reckless by comparison.

V/m spoke about her compartment syndrome all the time! They talked about it so much I learned about it from them

 

[nlloyd]

I only named two because I didn't feel like working too hard. As I said, they were off the top of my head.

I have read many interviews from Russian coaches and while they are blunt, they don't trash their skaters, saying they don't work hard or are Momma's Girls.

Other coaches would also not divulge confidential medical information about their students against the parents' wishes, as Tutberidze did with Tsurskaya (and also a young male student, if I recall correctly).

The problem is that coaches worldwide do not receive the kind of training teachers do, for the most part, and can thus exercise many types of dysfunctionality with impunity - lack of professionalism, poor boundaries, vindictiveness etc.

For me, it was the recent four-part interview with Tutberidze that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Medals are of paramount importance to her and she will do almost anything to get them. She openly states that her skaters train from 9 a.m. to 9 p.m.

Moreover, there is not a hope in h*ll that Russia would allow her to leave, in my opinion. Her success contributes to Russian nationalism, and her leaving Russia would have huge symbolic significance.

 

[overedge]

Because when I played sports in high school in college I was called a lazy a** and worse and while it p***** me off me off I did not take it as abuse. I took it as most of these coaches mean it a motivational tool.

Just because you didn't see it as abuse doesn't mean it wasn't abuse. Or that it wouldn't be perceived as abuse by someone else.

Coaches know how to coach they think they know how to motivate they can be great at coaching but maybe not at life and relationships.

If the only way they know how to coach people is by being abusive, then no, they don't know how to coach.

 

[MacMadame]

Just because you didn't see it as abuse doesn't mean it wasn't abuse. Or that it wouldn't be perceived as abuse by someone else.

And if the abusive behavior is "just their culture" that also doesn't make it not abuse. There are definitely cultural practices that are abusive such as FGM.

(Not that I think what she does is "just the culture" because other Russian coaches have made comments that show they don't approve of what is going on at Sambo-70 but feel constrained from saying so directly.)

 

[starrynight]

Moreover, there is not a hope in h*ll that Russia would allow her to leave, in my opinion. Her success contributes to Russian nationalism, and her leaving Russia would have huge symbolic significance.

I think you are highly likely to be correct.

Although it’s hard to know what the future holds for Russian skating and coaching if it is going to be domestic competitions only for likely years.

 

[Japanfan]

I do agree that they should be investigated. Definitely! I just don’t think it has been proven (yet) that they abuse children. There are definitely things that raise concern, but all those bits taken out of interviews, it doesn’t really gives the full accurate picture. When you investigate something, you hear something and ask many questions to clarify whatever was said, to get the most accurate picture of what’s going on. In interviews, they don’t ask those questions so it can be easy interpreted wrongly or take out of context.

I remember that Eteri was proud that Lipniskaya was able to live on protein power for a time. Then the girl ended up having to get treated for an eating disorder.

No, Eteri was not responsible for the skater's diet. However, her being proud of a girl who was starving to death at the time certainly made me suspicious of her.

 

[miffy]

I got the impression that Plushy may have learned from his mistakes, as when Trusova and Kostornaya both went back to TT (am I the only one who still thinks Tatiana Tarasova when I see TT in a Russian thread?!) he seemed fairly gracious in his statements IIRC.

I never thought I would be nice about Plushy. What’s happened to me

 

[rfisher]

Other coaches would also not divulge confidential medical information about their students against the parents' wishes, as Tutberidze did with Tsurskaya (and also a young male student, if I recall correctly).

The problem is that coaches worldwide do not receive the kind of training teachers do, for the most part, and can thus exercise many types of dysfunctionality with impunity - lack of professionalism, poor boundaries, vindictiveness etc.

For me, it was the recent four-part interview with Tutberidze that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Medals are of paramount importance to her and she will do almost anything to get them. She openly states that her skaters train from 9 a.m. to 9 p.m.

Moreover, there is not a hope in h*ll that Russia would allow her to leave, in my opinion. Her success contributes to Russian nationalism, and her leaving Russia would have huge symbolic significance.

Well, that "training" includes their academic tutoring, off ice training, ballet, modern dance, and lots of other activities. Sambo70 has everything in one place. That didn't mean the students were on the ice that long. The fact the center offers all these are one of the reasons parents and skaters want to go there.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Based on his history, when Mishin did trash Nugumanova to the press, it was discussed here with serious surprise, because it seemed so antithetical to his behavior until then. It also wasn't, at least yet, part of a pattern.

 

[screech]

am I the only one who still thinks Tatiana Tarasova when I see TT in a Russian thread?!)

Hey, whenever I see mention of Tarasova/Morozov, I still think of when Tatiana Tarasova and Nikolai Morozov were a coaching team, and have to remind myself that it's a pairs team.

 

[Sylvia]

I recently saw a tweeted practice clip of 13-year-old Alisa Dvoeglazova (3rd in Junior at the Russian Cup Final) landing a 3A with both arms overhead, just like her training mate Kamila Valieva.

Team Tutzberidze’s official Instagram account has announced April dates for their “Champions on Ice” tour in 6 cities (Minsk BLR, Moscow, Krasnoyarsk, Samara, Nizhny Novgorod, Tashkent UZB): https://www.instagram.com/tv/Ca4c5gcAnvR/

 

[Sylvia]

It is being reported that Trusova will not compete at the Channel One Cup: https://tass.ru/sport/14042083

Silver medalist of the Olympic Games in Beijing Alexandra Trusova will miss the Cup of the First Channel in figure skating. This was reported to TASS by a source at the Khrustalny school.
"Trusova is not going to participate in the upcoming tournament," the source said.
...
The First Channel Cup will be held from 24 to 27 March in Saransk.

 

[Ananas Astra]

It is being reported that Trusova will not compete at the Channel One Cup: https://tass.ru/sport/14042083

Another coaching change incoming?

 

[Karen-W]

It is being reported that Trusova will not compete at the Channel One Cup: https://tass.ru/sport/14042083

Another coaching change incoming?

I'd rather she was making a trip to visit her good friend, Diana, in Michigan...