U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

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But she has large financial backing and systems that support her. It makes it easy to cast a net and recruit top talents. There’s nothing like that in the US. Raf could only realistically have that with a wealthy financial backer, or by returning to Russia. Otherwise he has to wait and see who comes to him.

Though, I think it should be everyone. Chen’s quads are so efficient. Everyone should be itching to learn jump technique from Raf.
Mia Kalin has quads already. She just needs everything else. I wonder what Raf could do with her.

Isabeau Levito has been attempting quads but so far, they have been two-footed and/or under-rotated. I wonder if Raf might be able to help her.

I don't think that Raf is the only one who can teach quads either, as several of the Colorado coaches have taught quads to their men and even Laura Lipetsky managed to teach one to Alysa Liu (before she grew).

When I think of American ladies (in the past) with quads, I think of Sasha Cohen. Her coach, John Nicks, seemed to strongly discourage her from trying the quads in competition after she blew a couple of long programs trying to land one cleanly. They showed her landed quads (done in the practice) on the broadcast footage and they looked like beauties. Sasha would just get too nervous/excited/over-eager to land them cleanly in the actual competition.

Alysa Liu's quad was of the same kind as many of the Eteri girls...only doable while she remained tiny. That technique is no longer working for her.

I hope that some (American) coach somewhere can teach a physically mature American woman a quad that she can "grow into" and keep, the same way that the American men do.

Several American women look like they might be able to do quads.

Karen Chen gets the required height and air time but she will need to start rotating a lot sooner (and pull in tighter), if she is to add another revolution.

Gracie Gold also gets the required height and air time but she will also need to adjust her technique to snap into the rotation quicker and pull in tighter.

Amber Glenn, with the right instruction, looks like she might be able to get a quad too. She would need to jump higher though.

Isabeau's quad looks the closest (to being completed cleanly). Her quad reminds me a lot of Sasha Cohen's. I think Isabeau needs more height and spring to complete the rotations cleanly, but if Sasha Cohen and Sasha Trusova can do it, then I think Isabeau can too.
 
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Good point that we have a tiny sample of female skaters to this point who have quads. And that great jump coaches like Raf have tended to get skaters when they're older and need help. And that Cohen could do them (note: gymnastics-friendly body).

Looking at the gymnastics model might be useful. However, skating is (I assume) MUCH more expensive - ice time & upkeep, etc, versus a bunch of kids' parents' sharing training time costs in a gym. Suni Lee's family certainly is not rich! But US skating will have to be more focused than it has been - zeroing in on young skaters (up to age 12, say) with naturally small bodies. I remember reading how Olga Korbut's coach looked at birth records and parents to try to predict which girls would stay small. Funnel the tall girls into dance. ;-)
 
Agnes Zawadzki left the sport because of funding issues, if I recall. She was a true talent, and one whose situation and end of her career broke my heart.
I thought she was kind of burnt out? But don't know if finances also played a role.
 
Yes, my guess is that if a skater with the talent and goid basics/technique came to him at age 11-12, he could probably work with them to get them the 3A and quads by the time she is 14-15.

You'd think, with the talent pool in the LA area alone that there would be at least one or two ladies working with him by now to get those jumps by the time they need them for Jr & Sr international competition.
Ilia Malinin apparently has a 6 year old sister who skates, just saying
 
While watching "Meddling", I noticed Marina Anissina had mob ties that helped her get a bronze in 2002/Salt Lake.
Do any of our female skaters currently have mob ties to get one of our ladies an Olympic medal?
Do you think USFSA should hire mobsters to help get our US Ladies a skating medal?
Which mobster/mob family do you recommend for helping our US Ladies succeed?
 
Anissina was Olympic Champion in 2002.
You are right. So you do you think that the US should hire a mobster/mob family to get one of our ladies a skating medial for this Olympics or for future Olympics?
Do you have any recommendations for mobsters/mob families that could to the job?
 
Short interview with Mariah Bell for Russian press (in Rus)

She basically says that the Fed has not made a final decision about the Team Event yet, but of course she is ready to skate
 
Amber Glenn, with the right instruction, looks like she might be able to get a quad too. She would need to jump higher though.
Amber is a very nervy skater. Although she's been practicing the 3a for some time, she rarely tries it in competition, and when she does, it's <<. This season, she hasn't even been doing the 3f+3t that she's had for years. Amber is also rather tall for a skater: nearly 5'6" with a muscular build. Kalin, Levito and Sasha Cohen are all petite.
 
He has publicly complained that he hasn’t had this opportunity, that most skaters come to him to fix their technique, and by then it’s too late to teach women a quad or 3axel.
I don't think it's too late for Alysa. She's been very close to landing triple Axels and the quad Lutz, albeit with not the best speed or technique. But some have alleged or suggested on other sites that Raf wouldn't take on Alysa because of Mariah. I wonder if he would consider taking Liu on after the Games? Wouldn't hurt at this point.
 
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He has publicly complained that he hasn’t had this opportunity, that most skaters come to him to fix their technique,
I love Raf's outlook to say nothing of his brilliance. I think what he says is absolutely correct.
fixing is different that re-learning.

He has said that he does not go to skaters. He is willing to work with anyone who is willing to work.
Fact Check: What is the percentage of woman skaters who learned the quad before puberty and the percentage of those who learned it after puberty? I suspect doing a quad with hips and boobs is pretty different than slim hips and lots of upper body strength.

I watched an interview with Isabeau. She was asked something along the lines of how is she so consistent. She said that if she makes a mistake in a run-through of her program she has to do it again. Tracy said...Oh you go back and do the element you missed? Isabeau said, No....I have to go back to the beginning and do it again. She is going to go far.

We shall see how this shakes out.
 
If it's true Raf wouldn't take Alysa due to having Mariah, that's another thing that needs to change in US figure skating. Russia has coaches who juggle multiple competitors and it drives them to improve.

And Vagabond, I thought about that crime family suggestion, but this particular family tends to wreck things
 
The rumor was that Raf wouldn’t take her because of her father. He has seen what overly involved parents can do with Nathan. It also seems that he would be looking to take on someone younger, as it takes years to solidify his technique. It’s not too late for her to improve by any means, but if he wasn’t willing to take her 2 years ago, I doubt he would be willing after the Olympics.

And no, I don’t buy that he wouldn’t take her because of Mariah. He had no problem coaching two top ladies when Ashley was there, so that shouldn’t be an issue. And a Soviet trained coach like him would probably see the internal competition as an advantage, not a hindrance.
 
Defector just uploaded a very indepth article on this subject. They interviewed Raf and Karen, among others.

Some of Karen thoughts:
While talking about her struggle in training her triple axel, Karen Chen said she wished she’d focused more on building the right basics when she was a younger skater learning all her jumps. “I think what is truly important when it comes to these women doing quads, is they have really, really amazing, like perfect technique when it comes to their triples. What’s been a struggle for me, I am going to be perfectly honest, is breaking bad habits that I have developed over the years as I skated. From juvenile, I had a really bad wrap [leg position in the air] and I actually rotated like this [she held one arm up like a goal post and one arm down]. I didn’t know what was right and what was wrong and I didn’t have that guidance.”
 
Sorry for some reason it won't let me quote this part from you @sheetz for some reason?

"While talking about her struggle in training her triple axel, Karen Chen said she wished she’d focused more on building the right basics when she was a younger skater learning all her jumps. “I think what is truly important when it comes to these women doing quads, is they have really, really amazing, like perfect technique when it comes to their triples. What’s been a struggle for me, I am going to be perfectly honest, is breaking bad habits that I have developed over the years as I skated. From juvenile, I had a really bad wrap [leg position in the air] and I actually rotated like this [she held one arm up like a goal post and one arm down]. I didn’t know what was right and what was wrong and I didn’t have that guidance.”

My god, I can't believe she had coaching that didn't correct her arm position, holy cow....Karen is so gifted to be overcoming such bizarre technical deficits from a lack of good teaching early on.
 
Very surprising that coaches have to clear certain training methods with rink directors! (at least that's what I concluded from Raf's comment). If I were independently wealthy, I'd help Raf finance his academy. Not sure there is the will in USFSA to do that.

Although I don't think the uber-strict coaching style of Eteri would fly in the US, two things would really help with the 3axel/quad drought: START SKATERS YOUNG and train in groups. Both of which Raf could do, and could train other coaches to do.

US women are regressing! And I can just see USFSA hyping Levito and other up and comers just like they did for Gold. Thereby vastly increasing the pressure on them...
 
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