From Russia With Love [#38]: Fall/Winter 2020

[Ananas Astra]

Coach by the name of Amir Khabibullin, who was working at "Angels of Pluschenko" and was the primary coach of young Alex Pluschenko (Gnom-Gnomych), has now joined Khrystalniy (Sambo-70).

Тренер из Академии Плющенко перешёл в Хрустальный

Этот год принёс нам немало новостей. Особенно удивило лето, когда спортсмены стали удивлять и даже шокировать своими заявлениями о переходах к другим тренерам. В это межсезонье даже тренеры переходили в другие школы, когда, казалось, всё было идеально. Недавно Хрустальный, а если конкретно, то...

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I've been wondering for a couple of months what might've happened to him since he hasn't been featured in Alex' Plushenko's Instagram content for quite some time.

Joining Eteri's team now just adds more fuel to the "war" between Plush and Team Tutberidze.
May someone hand me the popcorn, please?

 

[syzygy]

Maybe there was less pressure back then but I wouldn't judge that on the size of the athletes. USA gymnastics has girls of all different shapes and sizes and B.K. called every single one of them fat when they ate (or just walked thru the gym doors).

^^ this.

People can have eating disorders, body dysmorphia, disordered eating, or other weight/food related mental problems at any weight. It's not just a "skinny" person issue. The vast majority of people with eating disorders and disordered eating actually aren't underweight (just food for thought). Even if skinny isn't the ideal, there are tons of other food and weight related mental illnesses that do not revolve around the urge to be thin. Additionally, even if the standards weren't present in figure skating specifically, there is always beauty standards from the general public. The 60s were the age of Audrey Hepburn and Twiggy.

 

[lala]

I've been wondering for a couple of months what might've happened to him since he hasn't been featured in Alex' Plushenko's Instagram content for quite some time.

Joining Eteri's team now just adds more fuel to the "war" between Plush and Team Tutberidze.
May someone hand me the popcorn, please?

Some weeks ago Segei Dobrin said in his interview Amir works in Svetlana Panova's group. Where does that group work?
Dobrin: https://matchtv.ru/figure-skating/m..._Sergej_Dobrin__o_skandalnyh_perehodah_sezona

Maybe Amir moved to Eteri or it was just a picture with Alina...What Tinami showed was just writing by a blogger who wanted to make sensation from a photo. So the moving is not sure yet, but we are going to know soon.

 

[Natanielle825]

Japan also has their nationals over the Christmas period.

right but most of japan isn't christian

 

[Natanielle825]

This made me so ill so I'm not actually recommending anyone with a heart watch it. Just saying if you think these top athletes lead wonderful charmed lives and their coaches aren't monsters, you're wrong.

That is why Russia always wins in rhythmic gymnastics.

Russian School Of Rhythmic Gymnastics Rhythmic Gymnastics TrainingПочему Россия всегда побеждает в художественной гимнастике?Music: Sia - Unstoppable

youtu.be

 

[Sylvia]

People can have eating disorders, body dysmorphia, disordered eating, or other weight/food related mental problems at any weight. It's not just a "skinny" person issue. The vast majority of people with eating disorders and disordered eating actually aren't underweight (just food for thought).

For @anikacanaxel and anyone else interested in watching a 12-minute TSN feature titled "Disorder" with Kirsten Moore-Towers and Rachel Flatt: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...-discussion-thread.107347/page-2#post-5889356

ETA:

Mikhail Kolyada scored 102.53 in his Minsk Ice Star SP (here's the video from the livestream that was posted in the competition thread in Kis & Cry): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGNt95cuPEM

 

[kalle]

Here is the latest from Ice Age, frigging pink dress with dots ....

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGkTR4Ap1Ku/

What! Was the purpose of this nonsense of a dress to make Alina look like a candy floss !?
Such a gorgeous girl deserve better

 

[lala]

This made me so ill so I'm not actually recommending anyone with a heart watch it. Just saying if you think these top athletes lead wonderful charmed lives and their coaches aren't monsters, you're wrong.

That is why Russia always wins in rhythmic gymnastics.

Russian School Of Rhythmic Gymnastics Rhythmic Gymnastics TrainingПочему Россия всегда побеждает в художественной гимнастике?Music: Sia - Unstoppable

youtu.be

Interesting I also just found this video on YT.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Interesting I also just found this video on YT.

Me too! A few days ago...

I wasn't sure what to make of it... comments are disabled though so no discussion on it either.

It does make me wonder, how does stretching for a sport like Rhythmic Gymnastics work elsewhere? Is there a particular country or training school where it doesn't look so... torturous?

 

[hanca]

What! Was the purpose of this nonsense of a dress to make Alina look like a candy floss !?
Such a gorgeous girl deserve better

I don’t think that’s the worst one. All Alina’s dresses from this show are quite awful looking. Hopefully it will be her learning experience. The next time before she will sign the contract, she may insist on having there inserted clause that she will have the right to veto whatever she is asked to wear.

 

[hanca]

Me too! A few days ago...

I wasn't sure what to make of it... comments are disabled though so no discussion on it either.

It does make me wonder, how does stretching for a sport like Rhythmic Gymnastics work elsewhere? Is there a particular country or training school where it doesn't look so... torturous?

I doubt it. There is no way around it, stretching hurts.

 

[Japanfan]

I doubt it. There is no way around it, stretching hurts.

I think the issue is forcing little girls to stretch so much they are in pain and in tears.

 

[AxelAnnie]

What! Was the purpose of this nonsense of a dress to make Alina look like a candy floss !?
Such a gorgeous girl deserve better

She is simply gorgeous. And it should be illegal to put her in that dress and then go out in public

 

[taz'smum]

I think the issue is forcing little girls to stretch so much they are in pain and in tears.

I agree with @hanca - to get the degree of stretch you need for this type of gymnastics, there is not a lot of choice but to stretch to the point that it is extraordinarily painful.

 

[Japanfan]

I agree with @hanca - to get the degree of stretch you need for this type of gymnastics, there is not a lot of choice but to stretch to the point that it is extraordinarily painful.

Fair enough. But is it alright to force young girls to do that type of stretching, to the point where they are in tears?

I couldn't imagine myself doing that. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I was a poor person in a poor country for whom having a child become an athlete was my ticket to freedom. But I don't think so.

 

[syzygy]

Me too! A few days ago...

I wasn't sure what to make of it... comments are disabled though so no discussion on it either.

It does make me wonder, how does stretching for a sport like Rhythmic Gymnastics work elsewhere? Is there a particular country or training school where it doesn't look so... torturous?

My best friend does rhythmic gymnastics in the US. No one sat on her in splits. Stretching hurts, sometimes there are tears. But slow and steady will win the race. Any physical therapist or exercise scientist will tell you that you can reach extraordinary levels of flexibility with minimal pain compared to the way Russians do it.
Edit: keywords are "compared to the way Russians do it." There's gonna be pain.

 

[lala]

Me too! A few days ago...

I wasn't sure what to make of it... comments are disabled though so no discussion on it either.

It does make me wonder, how does stretching for a sport like Rhythmic Gymnastics work elsewhere? Is there a particular country or training school where it doesn't look so... torturous?

I believe extra flexibility cannot be achieved with just such exercises and starting at such a young age. Back to the Fs I have experiences every FS fans like Lipni or Valieva's flexibility but don't like to see how they achieve it.

 

[hanca]

Fair enough. But is it alright to force young girls to do that type of stretching, to the point where they are in tears?

I couldn't imagine myself doing that. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I was a poor person in a poor country for whom having a child become an athlete was my ticket to freedom. But I don't think so.

I don’t think there is any middle ground. You don’t become more flexible by stretching only to the point where it is comfortable. You become more flexible by carefully pushing the limit, to go to the stage where it is painful. I understand that it is really awful seeing children in pain, but it the only alternative is to completely ban the rhythmic gymnastics. Then again, is skating any different? Learning to jump means many falls, and they are pretty painful too. And even worse learning throw jumps, twist or lifts. Falls from those, I am pretty sure the skaters are crying too.

I attended some gymnastic classes for adults. It was run by Russian coaches, which I didn’t know before I enrolled. We were the first year of those adult classes, so they were quite flexible with their approach towards us. We were asked what we want to do (I don’t think such democracy is common with classes run by Russian coaches, but as we were the first year, it is possible that they didn’t have the experience to know what can be done with adults). Everyone wanted to learn to work on those various gymnastic equipments. I was the only one who wanted to do rhythmic gymnastics because I wanted it for better spirals at skating. They looked at me as if I was mad and said that as an adult I was far too late for rhythmic gymnastics, but they could help me with my flexibility; they warned me it would hurt a lot and there is no way to avoid the pain. They were not lying - it was painful! I was advised to breathe, because then it hurts less. (It really does, but it still hurts a lot!) At times I was crying. Tears were ignored; at first I was embarrassed for it and then I realised that it was something so common for them that they either didn’t even acknowledge it, or had very factual approach to it (e.g. advised me that when I cry, I am 1. wasting my energy, 2. I am not breathing properly and 3. my body get tense - all those make stretching more painful.) Getting such an advice may feel quite uncaring, although looking at it when I am not emotionally involved, it is all true. And they did warn me it would hurt. There was nothing they could do about the pain. They only did what they were paid for - they were making me more flexible, and it was working. After the classes I struggled to walk even the hundred metres to get to the car. When I got home, all I managed was hot bath, ibuprofen and bed. The following days I was a little bit sore (but not so badly sore that it would prevent me skating) and the day after I was absolutely fine. Anyway, within three or four weeks I was able to do full split. I also improved my side-split but did not manage to get the full side split. I was advised that the position of my hips will make that impossible. After about three months I decided that I got what I needed from my classes so I stopped. It was a really interesting experience. I don’t regret doing it. Not sure if I would put my child through it though. If I did, it would have to be the child wanting it, there would be no pressure from me going through this.

 

[hanca]

My best friend does rhythmic gymnastics in the US. No one sat on her in splits. Stretching hurts, sometimes there are tears. But slow and steady will win the race. Any physical therapist or exercise scientist will tell you that you can reach extraordinary levels of flexibility with minimal pain compared to the way Russians do it.
Edit: keywords are "compared to the way Russians do it." There's gonna be pain.

How can you say that Russians don’t do it slow and steady? The video clip doesn’t suggest otherwise. In fact, it doesn’t show the technique at all. But even slow and steady hurts. Bottom line is, stretching hurts. You may be looking at a clip where someone sits on the person to stretch them, but it hurts the same as if you let the gravity do the job or if you use any equipment to help you to stretch.

 

[syzygy]

How can you say that Russians don’t do it slow and steady? The video clip doesn’t suggest otherwise. In fact, it doesn’t show the technique at all. But even slow and steady hurts. Bottom line is, stretching hurts. You may be looking at a clip where someone sits on the person to stretch them, but it hurts the same as if you let the gravity do the job or if you use any equipment to help you to stretch.

Because my experience with Rhythmic Gymnastics goes way further than one three minute video.

 

[Bigbird]

I believe extra flexibility cannot be achieved with just such exercises and starting at such a young age. Back to the Fs I have experiences every FS fans like Lipni or Valieva's flexibility but don't like to see how they achieve it.

I actually find it jarring to look at Valieva. It looks rather strange rather than interesting, IMHO.

 

[kwanfan1818]

right but most of japan isn't christian

Most religiously affiliated Russians are Russian Orthodox and celebrate Christmas around Jan 6-7, following the Ju!ian calendar.

 

[Cherub721]

For those who would like to see Elena Ilinykh on the stage, here’s the full recording of ‘Rasputin’ performance in London, May 2019. Will be available for 48 hours

SERGEI POLUNIN in RASPUTIN, London FULL SHOW

Happy world ballet day everyone! As a special gift on this celebration of ballet I will be sharing with you the whole performance of Rasputin from our London...

youtu.be

Silly me forgot to save this in time. Did anyone download it?

 

[muffinplus]

Alina picked her own outfits for Ice Age apparently

 

[Alilou]

How can you say that Russians don’t do it slow and steady? The video clip doesn’t suggest otherwise. In fact, it doesn’t show the technique at all. But even slow and steady hurts. Bottom line is, stretching hurts. You may be looking at a clip where someone sits on the person to stretch them, but it hurts the same as if you let the gravity do the job or if you use any equipment to help you to stretch.

I would claim from personal experience that it certainly doesn't have to though I'm not under any pressure to achieve any particular position for any up-coming competition or whatever. I just work slow and steady at my own pace.
I've always been flexible (as in more flexible than most ordinary - non athletic - people). When Covid started I got more serious about stretching, and stretch almost every day. Seven months ago doing a hamstring stretch my head was a good 10 inches from my leg. Now it's about 2 inches tho I could probably touch if I wanted to. Not once has it ever hurt.
I understand these kids are on a race to achieve perfect positions as soon as possible, but by definition stretching doesn't have to hurt to achieve results.

 

[alexikeguchi]

Alina picked her own outfits for Ice Age apparently

Your post just gave me a flashback to this old Wendy's commercial.

 

[hanca]

I would claim from personal experience that it certainly doesn't have to though I'm not under any pressure to achieve any particular position for any up-coming competition or whatever. I just work slow and steady at my own pace.
I've always been flexible (as in more flexible than most ordinary - non athletic - people). When ********* started I got more serious about stretching, and stretch almost every day. Seven months ago doing a hamstring stretch my head was a good 10 inches from my leg. Now it's about 2 inches tho I could probably touch if I wanted to. Not once has it ever hurt.
I understand these kids are on a race to achieve perfect positions as soon as possible, but by definition stretching doesn't have to hurt to achieve results.

You may be flexible more than the average non athletic person, but are you sure you can say you know how to get as flexible as the top rhythmic gymnasts? Because their flexibility is just insane, and while it may not be painful to do what you are doing, I would guess you are quite far away from where the rhythmic gymnasts need to get, and you don’t really know whether your way you could ever get there. The same way as learning to play the piano can be done by practising one hour per day, but playing like the people who get the International classical music award may need the person to practice 8 hours per day.

 

[Alilou]

You may be flexible more than the average non athletic person, but are you sure you can say you know how to get as flexible as the top rhythmic gymnasts? Because their flexibility is just insane, and while it may not be painful to do what you are doing, I would guess you are quite far away from where the rhythmic gymnasts need to get, and you don’t really know whether your way you could ever get there. The same way as learning to play the piano can be done by practising one hour per day, but playing like the people who get the International classical music award may need the person to practice 8 hours per day.

OMG I never claimed my way could work for a rhythmic gymnast! I simply said by definition stretching doesn't have to hurt to achieve results. What part of that didn't you understand?

 

[hanca]

OMG I never claimed my way could work for a rhythmic gymnast! I simply said by definition stretching doesn't have to hurt to achieve results. What part of that didn't you understand?

Well, if you look at the discussion, someone criticised that the children in the video are in pain and crying. I responded that there is usually pain involved in the stretching. You are arguing that there doesn’t have to be, because stretching your way it is slow and painless. I would like to point out that those children in the video are not doing it just for fun; they are aiming to become elite in rhythmic gymnastics. They are not a random group of kids in ‘let’s stretch a bit and have a fun’.

The same way was there is a difference between someone who goes to ice skating rink public session once a week and has fun skating around, compared with someone else who practices hard five times a week, learning jumps and suffering through the falls. Both of them may call it it skating, but the former does it for fun, the latter does it for the skills and suffers through the pain that is involved.

 

[Aerobicidal]

Let me break this down for a moment in case anyone else reading this thread feels like their brain is going to explode.

hanca seems to be making two arguments:

A. In order to be a competitive rhythmic gymnast, one must undergo a stretching routine that is necessarily painful.

B. There is a difference between stretches one must do to be a competitive rhythmic gymnast and the stretches an adult who wants to be healthy might do.

B is supported by an analogy that there's a difference between someone who goes ice skating for fun and one who wants to train to be a competitive figure skater.

Now, where it gets confusing to me is that hanca is repeatedly implying that someone is trying to dispute these claims.

For A, the opposing argument would be that it is possible to do the stretches necessary to be a competitive rhythmic gymnast without experiencing pain.

Since I know virtually nothing about stretching and even less about competitive rhythmic gymnastics, I am not in a position to make that argument. However, I am quite confident that no one has made that argument in this thread, and I would wager that no one has ever seriously made that argument on FSU.

For B, the opposing argument would be that there is no difference between the stretching one needs to do to be a competitive rhythmic gymnast and the stretching an adult interested in keeping healthy but not competing in any type of athletic contest needs to do. And, for the analogy to B, that there is no difference between skating for fun and training to be a competitive figure skater.

Either of those two opposing arguments would be ridiculous, and certainly have never been made in this thread.

Finally, I don't want to suggest this is the only place where someone is inventing arguments that don't exist in order to disprove them. That seems to happen quite frequently, but I suppose our current times and continuing news and experiences may be at least partially to blame.

I would like to add, on a semi-topical note, that I am interested to see the junior ice dance team who represent Cyprus (but are originally from Russia) progress and glad they did well in at Ice Star.