From Russia With Love [#38]: Fall/Winter 2020

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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64,405
Nobody was demanding she do anything. :lol: Apparently her coach is fine with her. Tuk's problem isn't her weight. It's the same problem she's had forever: her spins are slow and weak and she's slow and doesn't cover much ice. She never has. She dislocated her shoulder a few weeks ago and I'm sure that impacted her jumps last weekend, but even if she'd landed them all perfectly, Anna and Daria would still have outscored her with their superior spins, transitions and footwork. I think it's just easier for other coaches to essentially put the blame on Liza than on Mishin because none of his skaters excel at spins and footwork. :lol: He teaches jump technique. He was handed a gift with Kolyada who already had all that and needed to improve his jump technique and competitive nerves. win-win for both skater and coach. But, the press loves to get other coaches to say things to create drama and get clicks on their articles. The older smarter ones tend to avoid that trap.
 

Marco

Well-Known Member
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14,688
Nobody was demanding she do anything. :lol: Apparently her coach is fine with her. Tuk's problem isn't her weight. It's the same problem she's had forever: her spins are slow and weak and she's slow and doesn't cover much ice. She never has. She dislocated her shoulder a few weeks ago and I'm sure that impacted her jumps last weekend, but even if she'd landed them all perfectly, Anna and Daria would still have outscored her with their superior spins, transitions and footwork. I think it's just easier for other coaches to essentially put the blame on Liza than on Mishin because none of his skaters excel at spins and footwork. :lol: He teaches jump technique. He was handed a gift with Kolyada who already had all that and needed to improve his jump technique and competitive nerves. win-win for both skater and coach. But, the press loves to get other coaches to say things to create drama and get clicks on their articles. The older smarter ones tend to avoid that trap.
Exactly. Whether intentional or not, putting the focus on the wrong issue isn't going to help Tuktuk. I actually think she skated really well, all things considered. She landed the 3axel and 3lutz3toe in both programs, upgraded her BV and attempted all her triples, showed a new 3 jump combo, etc. But unless she fixed her spins or PCS components, she wasn't going to be competitive with skaters who had a better package and also landed a decent amount of triples.

I was trying to think of a relatively less flexible skater who showed good spins (quality and difficulty) for her to follow suit - but could only think of Kozuka... If she couldn't achieve the pretzel positions, she really needed to focus more on speed at least.
 

Weve3

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,301
Nobody was demanding she do anything. :lol: Apparently her coach is fine with her. Tuk's problem isn't her weight. It's the same problem she's had forever: her spins are slow and weak and she's slow and doesn't cover much ice. She never has. She dislocated her shoulder a few weeks ago and I'm sure that impacted her jumps last weekend, but even if she'd landed them all perfectly, Anna and Daria would still have outscored her with their superior spins, transitions and footwork. I think it's just easier for other coaches to essentially put the blame on Liza than on Mishin because none of his skaters excel at spins and footwork. :lol: He teaches jump technique. He was handed a gift with Kolyada who already had all that and needed to improve his jump technique and competitive nerves. win-win for both skater and coach. But, the press loves to get other coaches to say things to create drama and get clicks on their articles. The older smarter ones tend to avoid that trap.
Zhulin should have taken a pass; of course, he didn't, so I have felt the need to chastise him repeatedly (tongue-in-cheek, obviously) and summon Maya (again) for a good old-fashioned caboose kicking (good, clean fun). It's all very :drama: considering he is the coach to one of my favorite ice dance teams. So, I have to cut him some slack no matter his propensity to burp-up gibberish.

Still, coaches will be coaches, and they are very competitive. Case in point, Zhulin is talking smack about Liza, coached by Mishin, whose methods and techniques are considered to be too relaxed, which is a legitimate issue.

🧐 (skating) life in the trenches. :saint:
 

mjb52

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,478
I too cut Zhulin a bit of slack because of S/K (and Usova/Zhulin were a huge favorite of mine as well) even though I know I probably shouldn't. The heart has its weaknesses. I do give him credit in that I think he learns from his mistakes a bit... he just may have enough to learn in the first place that it is a time-delayed process. :)
 

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
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2,186
When I was a child, I fell in love with skating and ice dance because I imprinted on U/Z and K/P in Albertville. U/Z are still one of my favorite teams ever, and so I also cut Zhulin some slack. I would be amused if someone could interview Usova and get her to give some shade towards him.

He does seem to (eventually) learn from mistakes though. It's more than I can say for many.
 

Ka3sha

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7,224
I think it has become something like a mantra people keep repeating 'Liza has bad spins and poor ice coverage, she is always skating to the same thing and the only good thing about her is her lutz'.
While it's not completely untrue, we also probably should appreciate the fact that she is actually working on her flaws - she has new spins positions this year, she got the biellmann back (at 23yo and with chronic back problems, no less). She is trying hard with choreography and ice coverage - her last year SP to Florence&The Machine and this year's 'Spartacus' are a prove to that. I, personally, was pleasantly surprised with her ice coverage at this year test skates in comparison with Russian Cup final a year and a half ago, for example (I was sitting at the same part of the rink, so was easier to compare).

Anyway, the problem is not with Tuktamysheva's scores being too low - they seem okey to me. The problem is that all the others are not flawless skating goddesses (Kostornaia aside, probably) themselves. And no matter how good their spins could be, a skater with 3Lz(e)-2Lo should never be ahead of someone with 3A and 3-3 combo :rolleyes:
 
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Ka3sha

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David Avdysh passed away. He was mostly known as Plushenko's choreographer, but also did choreo for other Mishin's students and some pair teams (if i remember correctly)
 

hanca

Values her privacy
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10,766
Anyway, the problem is not with Tuktamysheva's scores being too low - they seem okey to me. The problem is that all the others are not flawless skating goddesses (Kostornaia aside, probably) themselves. And no matter how good their spins could be, a skater with 3Lz(e)-2Lo should never be ahead of someone with 3A and 3-3 combo :rolleyes:
Actually, the problem is that Tuktamysheva never maximises her points. All Tutberidze’s girls have always managed to figure out how to squeeze even the tinies extra point from the scoring system. It is pretty clear that Tutberidze’s team reads the rules very carefully and always spends time thinking how to get the maximum. Most of Russian senior ladies are aiming for a free program with seven triples. The reason is, only two triples can be repeated and if they don’t have the triple axel, the maximum amount of triples is seven. If one does have the triple axel, then the maximum amount of triples is eight. Tuktamysheva has the triple axel, and yet I haven’t seen her skate a FS with eight triples. I don’t know why, whether she doesn’t manage physically, but it is possible to train stamina. If Panenkova and Zagitova could learn to put all triples to the second half of the program and still land the jumps, I don’t believe that Tuktamysheva can’t learn to manage a program with eight triples - if she can do the jumps, she needs to use them. There is no point doing the triple axel, and then leaving another triple out, because then the point advantage from having triple axel is minimal and someone can easily catch up with high GOE and PCS. Whereas having and extra triple which the majority can’t do is a huge advantage and could be putting her ahead the same way as Trusova/Scherbakova’s quads do for them.
 
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Frau Muller

Everything is beautiful at the ballet!
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12,236
Because Tarasova is an expert on healthy weight. As her own weight proves.

I remember one year Tarasova was on a diet, and during the Russian nationals, in between talking about skaters she shared plenty of what she had eaten, what she would like to eat, what she should be eating... it was seriously weird doing it while she was paid to be a commentator for the competition. It was like a cross between competition and cooking/healthy eating program.

Tarasova talked about her diet during Zamboni re-icings. Not a big deal.
 

Ka3sha

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7,224
And some good news, Ksenia Sinitsyna is recovering from an injury, she is back on the ice. Too soon to talk about potential events, but she is eager to come back.
 

Bigbird

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Tarasova talked about her diet most of the time. during zamboni time, during warm up, in between the skaters skating... in fact, she also helpfully provided a few recipes. Sadly her attempt for healthy eating did not last very long.
Misery just loves company. The wise know when to use the ignore button.
 

Bigbird

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I can’t see the wisdom behind unwillingness to listen to others.
Well that's one way to look at things. But some advice is not worth the aggravation. These are highly talented young people with limitless options. If you cannot be thin enough to please specialists, I say move on, let it go. In the long run it will not be worth it.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
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10,766
Well that's one way to look at things. But some advice is not worth the aggravation. These are highly talented young people with limitless options. If you cannot be thin enough to please specialists, I say move on, let it go. In the long run it will not be worth it.
I am not saying that one has to do what others say. One needs to use their own brain to figure out which advice is worth following. But putting people on ignore is not thing I want to start doing.
 

anikacanaxel

Active Member
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125
I was watching Ice Star Junior Rhythm Dance. The Russian couples were amazing. Shichina / Khubulov had such good presentation and their twizzles were to die for. Grigovera / Frolov had amazing musicality and the skating skills were good though it looked like posture might not be a strong suit. Zhdanova / Blinov worked very well together, I don't know how long they've been skating together but they knew each other's skating like the back of their hand. Some of the moves looked like falls though.
Sadly can't watch Senior because I have work :(
 

Ka3sha

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7,224
For those who would like to see Elena Ilinykh on the stage, here’s the full recording of ‘Rasputin’ performance in London, May 2019. Will be available for 48 hours
 

alchemy void

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24,268
I remember one year Tarasova was on a diet, and during the Russian nationals, in between talking about skaters she shared plenty of what she had eaten, what she would like to eat, what she should be eating... it was seriously weird doing it while she was paid to be a commentator for the competition. It was like a cross between competition and cooking/healthy eating program.
Was this the year she was obsessed with blinis? I vividly remember her excitingly paging through a blini cookbook for at least 15 minutes, becoming more aroused with each passing page. Even not understanding a word of Russian it was much more memorable than any of the skating from that event.

The problem is that all the others are not flawless skating goddesses (Kostornaia aside, probably) themselves. And no matter how good their spins could be, a skater with 3Lz(e)-2Lo should never be ahead of someone with 3A and 3-3 combo :rolleyes:
micdrop.gif :respec:

Not to mention the 3Lz(e)-2Lo had a stepout on the loop!
 

Moka-Ananas

Why, thank you, Thing!
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10,288
Was this the year she was obsessed with blinis? I vividly remember her excitingly paging through a blini cookbook for at least 15 minutes, becoming more aroused with each passing page. Even not understanding a word of Russian it was much more memorable than any of the skating from that event.
That was the year Russian Nats were in Saransk for the first or second time and someone gifted her a Mordovian cookbook she was happily and eagerly presenting throughout the entire competition.
 

hanca

Values her privacy
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That was the year Russian Nats were in Saransk for the first or second time and someone gifted her a Mordovian cookbook she was happily and eagerly presenting throughout the entire competition.
I am glad that I was not the only one on whom it left a deep impression. Why watching only a skating competition, when you can watch a skating competition AND a cookery/healthy lifestyle program in one. That’s like two for the price of one.
 

anikacanaxel

Active Member
Messages
125
I don’t believe that Tuktamysheva can’t learn to manage a program with eight triples - if she can do the jumps, she needs to use them. There is no point doing the triple axel, and then leaving another triple out, because then the point advantage from having triple axel is minimal and someone can easily catch up with high GOE and PCS. Whereas having and extra triple which the majority can’t do is a huge advantage and could be putting her ahead the same way as Trusova/Scherbakova’s quads do for them.
It's exactly that. Even if she fell on the triples that she replaced the double with, her score could possibly still be higher if it didn't affect her PCS much. She can do them, so falling shouldn't even be a thought, but even if it was, the triple is still a better option.
I am glad that I was not the only one on whom it left a deep impression. Why watching only a skating competition, when you can watch a skating competition AND a cookery/healthy lifestyle program in one. That’s like two for the price of one.
It's like a crossover episode, figure skating edition.
 

lala

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4,808
David Avdysh passed away. He was mostly known as Plushenko's choreographer, but also did choreo for other Mishin's students and some pair teams (if i remember correctly)
OMG! I loved that man. He was in very good condition 2 years ago.....
https://www.instagram.com/p/Blj4HEvl_cP/ he was in training camp with the angels
 
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Tinami Amori

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19,610
Re earlier comment about Tarasova and her weight during skating. Tarasova's weight and shape was normal for the times and compared to other pairs skater she competed with.

Re Zhulin's remark. I think he uses "skating terms and context" to express his own desires for what female figure should look like, on ice and off ice. Few years ago he also said that the age limit should be raised so we can see "feminine figures" (not "female") on the ice, meaning more "breasts and round rear-end". I am sure what he (in him mind) meant about Liza is not that she "needs to lose weight" for skating, but "do something to have an hour-glass figure". It is true, Liza has "stocky" waist line, but it has NOTHING to do with weight. Zhulin yet again passed his "visual desires" into "skating context".
 

Aerobicidal

Thrust it!
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10,919
It was mentioned a couple of pages ago that Shcherbakova and Kostornaia were awarded titles by the Russian Ministry of Sports, but I don't think anyone has mentioned this: Team Tutberidze posted the award on Instagram except they edited out Kostornaia's name! And it looks like whoever did it had about the same computer programs and graphic design skills as I do.

I don't have a better source from this than Reddit, unfortunately, but considering the extreme pettiness and social media shit slinging going on among Team Eteri, Team Plush, etc., I'm going to choose to believe this.
 

Tinami Amori

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Tarasova/Morozov plan to debut @ Russian Cup Kazan. As well, Stepanova/Bukin will also participate.
 

Bigbird

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It was mentioned a couple of pages ago that Shcherbakova and Kostornaia were awarded titles by the Russian Ministry of Sports, but I don't think anyone has mentioned this: Team Tutberidze posted the award on Instagram except they edited out Kostornaia's name! And it looks like whoever did it had about the same computer programs and graphic design skills as I do.

I don't have a better source from this than Reddit, unfortunately, but considering the extreme pettiness and social media shit slinging going on among Team Eteri, Team Plush, etc., I'm going to choose to believe this.
Some people or things should just crawl back under the rock they came from. I also saw it and thought, I wouldn't dare mention it. How undigified...silence is golden.
 

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