The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[sharsk8s]

The first practice is almost done in Japan this twitter account has been providing updates. Unlike the other disciplines it looks like almost everyone is here. The Russians weren't at practice but I know S/B have been in Japan for a few days now so they must be training at some other facility.

 

[puglover]

It should be a very interesting competition in ice dance. Gold medal aside - anything could happen from silver to top ten. I kind of hope things are determined by fractions of a point.

 

[starrynight]

Rumor has it that the first part of the pattern dance will be a Finnstep, followed by whatever the ice dancers want.

The hippy hoppy part of the Finnstep is why I love it so much, and I fear that I'll set myself up for heartbreak every time the ice dancers start finnstepping and then switch over to some boring move that doesn't hippy hop. But it still leaves me hopeful that the musical selections will be on the bouncy side, and that only the freedances will be turgid.

Quoting this over from the thread about Broadway music choices.

So does this mean that the iconic Finnstep part will not be included: this is the bit I’m talking about

That’s a shame. It’s my favourite part of the pattern.

 

[sharsk8s]

Curious to see if ice dance will get any icescope like the other disciplines, although I am not sure what they would measure

 

[yurokis40]

Curious to see if ice dance will get any icescope like the other disciplines, although I am not sure what they would measure

i guess the twizzles.

 

[deegee]

Curious to see if ice dance will get any icescope like the other disciplines, although I am not sure what they would measure

how far donohue travels in the stationary lift?

 

[Debbie S]

Technical Controller Mr. David MOLINA FRA
Technical Specialist Ms. Ayako HIGASHINO JPN
Assistant Technical Specialist Mr. Denis SAMOKHIN RUS

Uh oh....RUS on the tech panel. RUS is also on the 9-person judge panel.

USA and CAN have no judges. No North American on tech panel either. Hmm....

Judges: France, Germany, Ukraine, Russia, Turkey, Poland, Hungary, China, Australia. Referee is Canada.

 

[aftershocks]

Please can someone explain what kind of racket ice dance is? Obviously the SinKats have improved, but they have NOT improved to 83+ points in the RD. Even their 77+ at GPF was overly high.

Neither Russian team are better than H/D, C/B or W/P!!! And it's even pushing it to suggest they are better than G/P and H/B. The two Russian teams may be on a par with the Italians (G/F) and the third Canadian team, but not the other top teams. What a freakin' lie! This sport is so full of it!!! And everyone is simply going to accept this push to get both Russian teams on the podium!!!

And the 88+ for P/C is quite laughable too. Where are these high numbers coming from??? What was the quid-pro-quo for bunching up the Russians with the North American teams, but keeping both Russian teams on top? It makes the improvements the Russians have actually made seem like a lie too, by over-f'ing rewarding them.

Can someone who truly understands ice dance break this down for me if you feel it's something other than politics which warrants those scores for the Russians! I know there is not a lot that separates the top teams, but I do NOT see either Russian team as having gotten that good to suddenly be receiving such high scores. Even Bukin's eyes were popping out of his head when their marks came up. What a complete lie, and a farce.

All the ice dancers are acting pretty cool about it. I guess they understand and accept the politics! It's so full of shit. Let the Russians actually earn their scores! So what happened at 4CCs to H/D is definitely being used as a cudgel to get both Russia teams on the podium.

 

[Bigbird]

Please can someone explain what kind of racket ice dance is? Obviously the S/K have improved, but they have NOT improved to 83+ points in the RD. Even their 77+ at GPF was overly high.

Neither Russian team are better than H/D, C/B or W/P!!! And it's even pushing it to suggest they are better than G/P and H/B. The two Russian teams may be on a par with the Italians (G/F) and the third Canadian team, but not the other top teams. What a freakin' lie! This sport is so full of it!!! And everyone is simply going to accept this push to get both Russian teams on the podium!!!

And the 88+ for P/C is quite laughable too. Where are these high numbers coming from??? What was the quid-pro-quo for bunching up the Russians with the North American teams, but keeping both Russian teams on top? It makes the improvements the Russians have actually made seem like a lie too, by over-f'ing rewarding them.

Can someone who truly understands ice dance break this down for me if you feel it's something other than politics which warrants those scores for the Russians! I know there is not a lot that separates the top teams, but I do NOT see either Russian team as having gotten that good to suddenly be receiving such high scores. Even Bukin's eyes were popping out of his head when their marks came up. What a complete lie, and a farce.

All the ice dancers are acting pretty cool about it. I guess they understand and accept the politics! It's so full of shit. Let the Russians actually earn their scores! So what happened at 4CCs to H/D is definitely being used as a cudgel to get both Russia teams on the podium.

Relax. No need for any extra excitement, S/K and S/B were just fantastic tonight, very confident and very sharp tonight and the panel helped them to relax I think. Maybe the others were a bit tight, maybe the others will rebound tomorrow? Just let it play out Tomorrow they will pronounce them to be the second coming of G/P or U/Z, right? This couldn't have happened at a better time for MFD, Patch and Haggie, they had better take a leaf out of Zhao Hongbo's book and prep for next season and the next. Haha...

 

[illyria]

Please can someone explain what kind of racket ice dance is? Obviously the S/K have improved, but they have NOT improved to 83+ points in the RD. Even their 77+ at GPF was overly high.

Neither Russian team are better than H/D, C/B or W/P!!! And it's even pushing it to suggest they are better than G/P and H/B. The two Russian teams may be on a par with the Italians (G/F) and the third Canadian team, but not the other top teams. What a freakin' lie! This sport is so full of it!!! And everyone is simply going to accept this push to get both Russian teams on the podium!!!

And the 88+ for P/C is quite laughable too. Where are these high numbers coming from??? What was the quid pro quo for bunching up the Russians with the North American teams, but keeping both Russian teams on top? It makes the improvements the Russians have actually made seem like a lie too, by over-f'ing rewarding them.

Can someone who truly understands ice dance break this down for me if you feel it's something other than politics which warrants those scores for the Russians! I know there is not a lot that separates the top teams, but I do NOT see either Russian team as having gotten that good to suddenly be receiving such high scores.

All the ice dancers are acting pretty cool about it. I guess they understand and accept the politics! It's so full of shit. Let the Russians actually earn their scores! So what happened at 4CCs to H/D is definitely being used as a cudgel to get both Russia teams on the podium.

To be honest all of the top 8 were all very overscored. It was an extremely generous tech panel, but not surprising since controller is good friends with Gadbois, Japanese tech specialist was same specialist as 2016 Worlds which had lots of level 4s, and assistant tech specialist is Russian and friends with Morozov.

H/D, C/B, and Weapo were actually the most overscored to me and should have been behind G/F, who had an extremely strong Tango Romantica pattern, clearly hit all the edges, and would have gotten level 4 under any panel imo. H/D nearly collided on the twizzles and their GOE was too high. They were also very nervous performance wise. And all level 4s after the low levels they've been getting all season is interesting. I don't think Madi H should have been given TR 1, KP 1 because her RBI looked flat. C/B I found level 4 on the 2nd pattern very generous. Madi Chock had the worst RFO-Three Turn of the night and yes on TR 2, KP 1 was very questionable. That exit edge was not good at all. Weapo's GOE and levels on the twizzles were generous as well. Kaitlyn pirouette the forward outside twizzle, but still got level 4 instead of level 3.

S/K content and choreography wise have the strongest RD in the world. I am not a fan of them as people, but their RD is incredible. They skate very close together in the tango romantica, they have very good edge quality, Vika has become very strong skating skills wise this season, their gancho work is insane, and that midline stsq is super complex with 6 difficult steps/turns instead of 5, the clapping matched to the music, and the gancho work.

S/B are great performers and crowd favorites. They also had the best twizzles (along with G/F) and the best RD lift of all the teams. The curve lift has complex entry, difficult position from both partners, matches the music, and difficult exit. They also did their best job all season on the tango romantica pattern. All of the key points, especially in pattern 2 looked good.

My ranking would have been: 1. P/C, 2. S/K, 3. S/B, 4. G/F, 5. Weapo, 6. C/B, 7. H/D, 8. G/P

 

[sharsk8s]

What was with all of those L4s?? After this season I thought we wouldn't see any perfect TR patterns. I think the technical panel just checked out for the whole last flight completely

 

[starrynight]

What was with all of those L4s?? After this season I thought we wouldn't see any perfect TR patterns. I think the technical panel just checked out for the whole last flight completely

So odd that after a season of really up and down levels and disproportionate GOE that we get to Worlds and the judges just give straight level 4s and basically the same scores to the top 8 teams.

For the teams that have always demonstrated the ability to do that tango romantica at harsher judged competitons it must be a bit disappointing that they get no benefit at Worlds.

But also interesting that the teams who in earlier parts of the season got big GOE despite low levels have now got the level 4s but the same GOE and scores as the rest of the pack.

All very interesting.

I suppose the judges will just be hoping teams make mistakes in the free dance?

Did they not want to create a controversy which would push for changes to the judging system? They can point to this competition and argue that everything is working just fine I guess?

 

[aftershocks]

the panel helped them to relax I think

Of course the panel helped the Russian skaters to relax. Rigged panel if you ask me. It takes more than confidence and sharpness to actually jump to those level of scores. The whole thing is ridiculous. Everybody was gasping or widening their eyes at their scores in the kiss 'n cry, with either acceptance or in the case of S/B, with delight. S/K looked slightly surprised, but then quickly nodded like it was their due.

The only question was whether the judges were pushing to give S/K the gold. Apparently, the eye-popping 88+ for P/C tells us the judges weren't gonna go that far. AT LEAST, NOT YET!

I'm asking for knowledgeable and unbiased ice dance aficionados to weigh in on this, not fans of the Russian teams.

To be honest all of the top 8 were all very overscored.

My thoughts exactly!!! And the utter nonsense started with that WTF 83.94 score for S/K.

 

[starrynight]

What is the story with Hubbell/Donohue? Earlier in the season if they got level 4s their scores would have been up in the stratosphere. But here they get all level 4s at last but yet they are basically tied with 7 teams?

 

[illyria]

So odd that after a season of really up and down levels and disproportionate GOE that we get to Worlds and the judges just give straight level 4s and basically the same scores to the top 8 teams.

For the teams that have always demonstrated the ability to do that tango romantica at harsher judged competitons it must be a bit disappointing that they get no benefit at Worlds.

But also interesting that the teams who in earlier parts of the season got big GOE despite low levels have now got the level 4s but the same GOE and scores as the rest of the pack.

All very interesting.

I suppose the judges will just be hoping teams make mistakes in the free dance?

Did they not want to create a controversy which would push for changes to the judging system? They can point to this competition and argue that everything is working just fine I guess?

From memory, I can say that G/F and Weapo had extremely strong Tango Romantica patterns and were clear on all the key points and I believe would have gotten level 4 on both even under a very harsh panel. S/K, H/K, and F-B/S also had very good patterns today and in general had good levels on their patterns all season. Some things I noticed were overlooked that probably wouldn't be overlooked by a tougher panel were Madi Chock's RFO-Three Turn in TR 2, KP 1; Piper's RFO-Three Turn in TR 2, KP 1; Kaitlin Hawayek's RBI in TR 1, KP 1; and Madi Hubbell's RBI in TR, 1, KP 1.

 

[illyria]

What is the story with Hubbell/Donohue? Earlier in the season if they got level 4s their scores would have been up in the stratosphere. But here they get all level 4s at last but yet they are basically tied with 7 teams?

Their twizzles were off and they nearly collided in the 2nd set. Tho they did actually get very good GOE still and are in the top 4 and ahead of Weapo, C/B, and G/F when imo they should not be for the performance they showed today.

 

[aftershocks]

To be honest all of the top 8 were all very overscored. It was an extremely generous tech panel, but not surprising since controller is good friends with Gadbois, Japanese tech specialist was same specialist as 2016 Worlds which had lots of level 4s, and assistant tech specialist is Russian and friends with Morozov.

H/D, C/B, and Weapo were actually the most overscored to me and should have been behind G/F, who had an extremely strong Tango Romantica pattern, clearly hit all the edges, and would have gotten level 4 under any panel imo. H/D nearly collided on the twizzles and their GOE was too high. They were also very nervous performance wise. And all level 4s after the low levels they've been getting all season is interesting. I don't think Madi H should have been given TR 1, KP 1 because her RBI looked flat. C/B I found level 4 on the 2nd pattern very generous. Madi Chock had the worst RFO-Three Turn of the night and yes on TR 2, KP 1 was very questionable. That exit edge was not good at all. Weapo's GOE and levels on the twizzles were generous as well. Kaitlyn pirouette the forward outside twizzle, but still got level 4 instead of level 3.

S/K content and choreography wise have the strongest RD in the world. I am not a fan of them as people, but their RD is incredible. They skate very close together in the tango romantica, they have very good edge quality, Vika has become very strong skating skills wise this season, their gancho work is insane, and that midline stsq is super complex with 6 difficult steps/turns instead of 5, the clapping matched to the music, and the gancho work.

S/B are great performers and crowd favorites. They also had the best twizzles (along with G/F) and the best RD lift of all the teams. The curve lift has complex entry, difficult position from both partners, matches the music, and difficult exit. They also did their best job all season on the tango romantica pattern. All of the key points, especially in pattern 2 looked good.

My ranking would have been: 1. P/C, 2. S/K, 3. S/B, 4. G/F, 5. Weapo, 6. C/B, 7. H/D, 8. G/P

Uh huh, okay. And if you are unbiased, what's your actual background expertise which gives you this knowledge, as well as your country of origin?

All very interesting.

All very f'ing ridiculous, suspicious and rigged.

 

[mjb52]

Uh huh, okay. And if you are unbiased, what's your actual background expertise which gives you this knowledge, as well as your country of origin?

also are you or are you not A COMMUNIST lol

 

[Orm Irian]

So odd that after a season of really up and down levels and disproportionate GOE that we get to Worlds and the judges just give straight level 4s and basically the same scores to the top 8 teams.

While I'm sure this was probably a more generous panel than some previous competitions, as people have said (I don't really track the names of callers, judges etc so I can't judge for myself there!) it's also the case that all of these teams have had one to two months to go back and really work on those patterns since their last big competitions. You could see some of them actively being a bit slower and more careful on the first pattern in particular to make sure they got the levels up, including P/C. Looks like getting the dance right first and then fine-tuning the pattern in time for Worlds ended up paying off for many of them - it was the inexperienced teams and those with fewer resources for training that were still getting the lower levels (eg F/G - overall skating great other than the twizzle error, but this is only the third pattern dance he's ever done and there was only so much ground they could hope to make up on a pattern like the TR). And even there I saw some improvements, eg Manni and Roethlisberger getting actual levels and not Base levels.

 

[starrynight]

I guess on the upside no one has been sunk or dumped... just tied??

 

[illyria]

Uh huh, okay. And if you are unbiased, what's your actual background expertise which gives you this knowledge, as well as your country of origin?



All very f'ing ridiculous, suspicious and rigged.

I am American. I am just a fan that knows steps, turns, pattern dances, and the technical handbook well.

Also I am not an authority on anything. I am just giving my opinion and explanation of the RD today. And you asked for opinions about it.

Of course everyone should learn steps, turns, pattern dances, key points, etc. to help form their own opinions and my opinion shouldn't be taken as a fact.

I don't see individual program videos online yet, but here are some examples of what I was talking about.

Madi Chock RFO-Three Turn exit: https://66.media.tumblr.com/6754f135dc548f21c5d04070a8d7bf03/tumblr_pordgs9LiL1u604cmo1_1280.png

This RBI exit should be a clear right back inside edge, but it is flat. This is part of lady step 29, which is included in section 2, key point 1.

It would be better to see in motion, but here is screenshot of how close and out of sync H/D got on the 2nd set of their twizzles
https://66.media.tumblr.com/02011a4d2052cc4f905cdd9332776ee2/tumblr_pordgs9LiL1u604cmo2_1280.png

 

[cocotaffy]

I'm not surprised at all at S/K's scores, I was expecting this at Euros tbh if not for the twizzles disaster. Their tango has been strong from the get go with good levels on the pattern. It is the most intricate one out there step wise and she has improved tremendously which can not be said for Stepanova. S/B were on the other hand overscored imo the Italians should have certainly be above them. S/B are slower than the top teams, especially her, it's evident during the midline and her posture...
Otherwise, yes, it was a lenient tech panel but they were kind of lenient with everyone so.
H/D and C/B didn't skate as well as expected too. H/D twizzles were close to a disaster and I found the scoring generous there. C/B lacked sharpness. I thought their 4CCs performance was better.
As for P/C they have been hovering close to 85 all season with missed levels so I was fully expecting a 87/88 if they could skate their RD to the fullest which they absolutely did. The first pattern was great and everything else spot on.

 

[PRlady]

At least this photo is useful for those like me who can’t tell two slim pretty Russian blondes apart. https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1108996544701841408?s=21

 

[mjb52]

I know that it's fashionable (at least online) now to talk about how an image looks like a Renaissance painting but Cizeron has the most fascinating look I've ever seen, he truly looks like he has emerged from a pastoral scene painted of ancient Greece. It's ironic that Papadakis is the one with Greek heritage b/c there is something so faun-like about him to me, he really looks like he is from another time.

 

[Ladida]

Can someone please explain me the rise of Polish team? I don´t get it at all

 

[cocotaffy]

Can someone please explain me the rise of Polish team? I don´t get it at all

Oh no you did it now and open up a whole can of worms Basically they are the one uniting force of FSU in that most are as astonished as you are.

 

[yuna13fr]

Can someone please explain me the rise of Polish team? I don´t get it at all

I'm waiting for nathalie pechalat commentary.
At EC she was very vocal how insane it was to have the pol in the final group.
She explained how in TES they are behind teams like the spanish teams.

 

[MarieM]

Can someone please explain me the rise of Polish team? I don´t get it at all

Don't get me started on that team. Don't.

 

[Colonel Green]

So basically the tech panel punted to the judges, and the judges punted to the free dance.

 

[barbarafan]

Can someone please explain me the rise of Polish team? I don´t get it.
Seriously