U.S. Pairs 2018 - News & Updates, Part VIII

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overedge

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@skatingguy Nothing is out of context in what I cited. Also this,

My apologies to them if they didnt want the news spread. Wishing them much health and sucess this season.

Likewise, if the skaters haven't announced the news themselves, it would seem that they "didn't want the news spread". So then don't spread it and apologize afterwards.
 

happycamper2554

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You removed the whole context when you quoted part of a sentence - the definition of taking something out of context - 'don't quote me on this' is not intended to be taken literally in the context of what @happycamper2554 posted which is clear when you read the whole quote.

Thanks for the support, i don't know why this person feels the need to attack my posts.
 

jkl

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Kate Finster and Balazs Nagy were recently added to USFS' ISP (I believe they got the ISP Junior score at Cup of Colorado last week) and so they could get assigned to the 4th and final JGP for pairs in Ostrava.
So glad to read this. I was very impressed with Finster and Nagy at Skate Detroit. Very nice debut. I do hope they get a JGP invite. They have another year of eligibility after this year so the International experience will truly help this new team.
 
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Cleo1782

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@skatingguy Nothing is out of context in what I cited. Also this,



Likewise, if the skaters haven't announced the news themselves, it would seem that they "didn't want the news spread". So then don't spread it and apologize afterwards.

To be fair @happycamper2554 just linked something TSL decided to spread. Someone would have brought it over here eventually anyway.
 

el henry

#WeAllWeGot #WeAllWeNeed
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No one, but no one, has shot more arrows at Dave Lease and TSL than me.:cool:

But 1) they announce coaching changes, where they are right 99% of the time and 2)they have traditionally had spies at Champs Camp.

Skaters can make announcements when and if it suits them, but if they make a coaching change at Champs Camp, chances are TSL will find out and announce it when they find out. And once they say it, it’s out there.

Just life in the (not) big city rink.:D
 

Cleo1782

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No one, but no one, has shot more arrows at Dave Lease and TSL than me.:cool:

But 1) they announce coaching changes, where they are right 99% of the time and 2)they have traditionally had spies at Champs Camp.

Skaters can make announcements when and if it suits them, but if they make a coaching change at Champs Camp, chances are TSL will find out and announce it when they find out. And once they say it, it’s out there.

Just life in the (not) big city rink.:D

You are right. Most of his info is generally true. I don't think he posts things without several verifications from 'spies' or whatever. I think it's his posting/blogging style that is more offensive than anything. I just think putting the 'scoop' out there a few days before the skaters were was silly. Obviously, more than 1 person knew this was happening and kept quiet and didn't feel the need to announce it the minute they heard just to prove they are an 'insider'. Does anyone really care if you are a skating insider lol? I think Dave gets off on having some good sources in skating, but it is such a niche sport that it really doesn't make you important. I think he thinks he is because he was basically just a fan/adult skater and now has some cache to get some scoop. He's not TMZ. I appreciate the fact he puts content out there fairly consistently, but eventually if he keeps leaking news like this his insiders are going to turn on him. Oh well, we are all giving TSL too much time and energy.
 

RoseRed

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You are right. Most of his info is generally true. I don't think he posts things without several verifications from 'spies' or whatever. I think it's his posting/blogging style that is more offensive than anything. I just think putting the 'scoop' out there a few days before the skaters were was silly. Obviously, more than 1 person knew this was happening and kept quiet and didn't feel the need to announce it the minute they heard just to prove they are an 'insider'. Does anyone really care if you are a skating insider lol? I think Dave gets off on having some good sources in skating, but it is such a niche sport that it really doesn't make you important. I think he thinks he is because he was basically just a fan/adult skater and now has some cache to get some scoop. He's not TMZ. I appreciate the fact he puts content out there fairly consistently, but eventually if he keeps leaking news like this his insiders are going to turn on him. Oh well, we are all giving TSL too much time and energy.
I kind of doubt it. His sources clearly know he's going to post it and are fine with that. I doubt he heard it from the actual skaters. It's what he does, and they are still telling him stuff. And despite all the fan complaints, he's still getting great interviews, so I doubt anything changes anytime soon.
 

Cleo1782

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I kind of doubt it. His sources clearly know he's going to post it and are fine with that. I doubt he heard it from the actual skaters. It's what he does, and they are still telling him stuff. And despite all the fan complaints, he's still getting great interviews, so I doubt anything changes anytime soon.

Maybe? Maybe not? I am sure there will always be people willing to spill info, but the more bridges he burns the lower he is going to have to go for sources and his info will be more and more sparse. His interviews are good. No problem with them, but at some point if someone pisses off enough people the sources dry up. At least the best ones. I doubt he heard it from Tarah and Danny personally, but maybe the better route would have been to somehow contact them and get an interview or statement instead of just spilling the info. Neither here nor there what's done is done. He seems to be laying low on social media so maybe he got some heat from this.
 

aftershocks

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Here’s an idea. If we would all quit reading, listening, supporting trash talking then it wouldn’t really matter what he posts.

Let this be a lesson and quit supporting things like TSL.

It's important to stop watching, true. But I have to say that he's still there and he's still afloat because the TSL platform and archives are valuable and are giving him leverage. He did not build the platform by himself, but he apparently has full control over it. And, there are apparently still top people in the sport supporting him and coming on the show, perhaps because they are unaware of the extent of his nasty comments and 'me-me' behavior. Those who have blogs might also consider deleting links to TSL.

The problem is that the TSL archives are valuable. At least his press credentials were pulled. But it's going to take many more people being aware of the infective invective he spouts and deciding to cut him off. And even more than that is needed too. A random, unknown number of fans and skaters ignoring him is not enough.

No one, but no one, has shot more arrows at Dave Lease and TSL than me.:cool:

But 1) they announce coaching changes, where they are right 99% of the time and 2)they have traditionally had spies at Champs Camp.

Skaters can make announcements when and if it suits them, but if they make a coaching change at Champs Camp, chances are TSL will find out and announce it when they find out. And once they say it, it’s out there.

Just life in the (not) big city rink.:D

It doesn't matter if DL turns out to be right or not. He breaches confidences when he decides that he has to be the first to scoop the news. Yes, there is a general problem today with info being leaked prematurely in the age of social media. The issue with DL is that he thinks it's all about him. He is part of the problem, not the solution.

I kind of doubt it. His sources clearly know he's going to post it and are fine with that.

Uh, unless you are one of his sources, I'm not sure you can say that is the case across the board. :)

And now, back to U.S. Pairs. Figure skating really is NOT about you know who.
 
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Carolla5501

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To be fair @happycamper2554 just linked something TSL decided to spread. Someone would have brought it over here eventually anyway.

And they would have been guilty too. If you spread gossip you have to accept the consequences. Saying "someone else did it too" is generally a defense that should be abandoned after about 4th grade.
 

RoseRed

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Maybe? Maybe not? I am sure there will always be people willing to spill info, but the more bridges he burns the lower he is going to have to go for sources and his info will be more and more sparse. His interviews are good. No problem with them, but at some point if someone pisses off enough people the sources dry up. At least the best ones. I doubt he heard it from Tarah and Danny personally, but maybe the better route would have been to somehow contact them and get an interview or statement instead of just spilling the info. Neither here nor there what's done is done. He seems to be laying low on social media so maybe he got some heat from this.
I just don't see him posted this as burning a bridge. I'd assume that whoever told him about the move knew he'd share it (because you would know that if you've payed attention at all this offseason), so isn't upset. If you want a move kept private, you don't tell TSL, so source likely didn't care about it being made public.

And you talk about his sources drying up, but he's had a lot of scoops this summer, so I doubt he's concerned.

Note, this is not me defending TSL, but I just don't see this as something that would really hurt him at all. I feel bad for Tarah and Danny not getting to share the news themselves.
 

aftershocks

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I'd assume that whoever told him about the move knew he'd share it ... so isn't upset.

As you indicate, you are making 'assumptions,' which actually are your own presumptions, unverified. There's a lot regular fans don't know about that goes on behind-the-scenes, in terms of the genuine cooperation and regard skaters and coaches have for one another. That's part of DL's problem. He thinks since he's made a number of contacts on the back of Jenny Kirk, that now he's somehow important in the skating world. At the same time, he totally abuses his insider connections. Whereas the truly kind, sincere movers and shakers in the sport, including skaters, coaches, and fans who help cover the sport like @Sylvia, @N_Halifax, @clairecloutier, Jackie Wong, P.J. Kwong, et al, have shown themselves to be motivated and guided by a love of the sport and respect for their compadres.
 
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MrMystery

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It today's social media day and age, it's nearly impossible to protect skaters music, coaching changes, etc. Wrong, right, of indifferent, if a skater wants to announce something first, and break their own news, they pretty much have to do so immediately.

Also, remember earlier in this thread when I talked about Dalilah wanting to get her hands on a team that could challenge for the top of the Nationals podium, and that this could happen once she started working with K&O? And I got some slack for it?
 

jmtfti

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Speaking as someone who's not at all a fan of TSL and its methods:

Other skaters swiftly validated the tweet by responding to it in a positive way, similar to what we saw happen when TSL leaked the Gadbois moves this off-season. Skaters are certainly at liberty to ignore these coaching change reports -- a "neither confirm nor deny" scenario -- which would at least keep them in a sort of limbo until official announcements are released. That's not what tends to happen.
 

Spiralgraph

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It today's social media day and age, it's nearly impossible to protect skaters music, coaching changes, etc. Wrong, right, of indifferent, if a skater wants to announce something first, and break their own news, they pretty much have to do so immediately.

Also, remember earlier in this thread when I talked about Dalilah wanting to get her hands on a team that could challenge for the top of the Nationals podium, and that this could happen once she started working with K&O? And I got some slack for it?


I had an issue with your post because you implied that Dalilah was kind of underhandedly taking away K/O from Jim Peterson. That is your speculation, as we have no confirmed information. I prefer to wait until more facts are in before I badmouth Dalilah or anybody. The split between Peterson and K/O may have been amicable as a poster up thread has indicated. I hope it was. The last thing all USA pairs and their coaches need is backstabbing and in fighting.
 

Cleo1782

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It today's social media day and age, it's nearly impossible to protect skaters music, coaching changes, etc. Wrong, right, of indifferent, if a skater wants to announce something first, and break their own news, they pretty much have to do so immediately.

Also, remember earlier in this thread when I talked about Dalilah wanting to get her hands on a team that could challenge for the top of the Nationals podium, and that this could happen once she started working with K&O? And I got some slack for it?

Congrats on speculating on that correctly? But even this post makes it sound like Dalilah was doing something sinister trying to steal Tarah and Danny. Why don't we wait for the skaters and the USFS to make an official statement? It really doesn't matter who posted it when. It happened. Best of luck to them. I hope Tarah's injury heals and she is healthy this season.
 

MrMystery

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A.) I like K&O and I hope that she is recovering well, and that the move will be good for them (I think it will be).

B.) I like Dalilah, as a person and as a coach.

C.) Skaters and USFS' statement is going to be similar to most when a skater changes coaches, they thank Jim, he's helped get them where they are, they are making the change to take their skating to the next level, etc.

D.) A coaching split can absolutely be amicable and still be something more prolonged and planned out.
 

aftershocks

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It today's social media day and age, it's nearly impossible to protect skaters music, coaching changes, etc. Wrong, right, of indifferent, if a skater wants to announce something first, and break their own news, they pretty much have to do so immediately.

Also, remember earlier in this thread when I talked about Dalilah wanting to get her hands on a team that could challenge for the top of the Nationals podium, and that this could happen once she started working with K&O? And I got some slack for it?

I thought you might be back with your, "I told you so!" And unsurprisingly, here you are. Yet it appears more than highly likely that you are still off base regarding intentions and motivations of those involved.

Whatever regarding the social media age. :blah: The point is that DL feels like he has to constantly prove he's in-the-know by speaking out first about something that a number of insiders were aware of when it happened but they did not break confidence out of respect for Jim, Tarah/Danny, and Dalilah. As others have shared, the news was going to be reported shortly but DL wanted to be first, heedlessly and needlessly.

What's done is done and it's probably time for all of us to move on in this thread, though I'm not holding my breath. :drama:
 

aftershocks

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^^ I agree with you @Dobre. I would NOT miss DL. I just miss in-depth coverage and interviews, but he and cohort are absolutely not the greatest interviewers in the world! It's the guests that matter! It's the guests I will miss, and in fact I already miss. As much as I love Raf, I could not sit through that interview. DL and fawning cohort have completely turned me off. They had the nerve to go from the Aliona interview to that distasteful Asian Open, etc disfest, on the very same day.

It's not like figure skating is covered much in the mainstream media, USFS press releases come weeks after major news happens

^^ Yep, I've already said that quite a few times in this thread and elsewhere. We know that. It doesn't excuse anything. But of course, there will continue to be sad business as usual, because I doubt that many people in the sport have time to waste energy on trying to stop DL's infective influence, and some people may actually like some things about him, and simply shake their heads at his over-reaching offenses, or maybe not even know the full extent of his worst behavior. Plus, no one seems willing or able to find the resources to take a next level step toward more professional, in-depth figure skating coverage. It's always fans who go the extra step to provide the coverage that's needed and not being provided by established media. Unfortunately, DL is not the nicest fan -- forget about him being respectful or professional.

Speaking as someone who's not at all a fan of TSL and its methods:

Other skaters swiftly validated the tweet by responding to it in a positive way, similar to what we saw happen when TSL leaked the Gadbois moves this off-season. Skaters are certainly at liberty to ignore these coaching change reports -- a "neither confirm nor deny" scenario -- which would at least keep them in a sort of limbo until official announcements are released. That's not what tends to happen.

True, but it's DL stirring the pot and wringing the heck out of the platform he has control over now, largely as a result of Jenny Kirk's status and connections (and because she apparently left it all to him). Stirring the pot is all part of DL's infective influence right now, which is a shame. I used to be one of those who enabled DL by tsk-tsking yet still engaging and tuning-in because of the dearth of figure skating coverage, and because of TSL's overall value (which has little to do with DL at all).

The problem is that DL has never changed and he's never learned from his mistakes, nor has he learned anything by the fact that a number of people have kept trying to give him chances. Yes, a lot of people are not fully aware of all of DL's egregious and petty offenses. There's more than one reason why Jenny exited TSL, not all of those reasons had to do with her going to law school. DL is definitely burning his bridges and turning off a lot of people, but he's being kept afloat by the platform, by his bullish tenacity, and unfortunately by those continuing to give him chances. There are also people who may in fact not care about DL's addictive bent for scooping and the petty nastiness of his digs and slams.

I would also point out that seemingly DL has access to a number of sources within rinks and well-placed sources in the community that he's acquainted with. Therefore, he has access to gossip which he can then float by others. Even if he gets a noncomittal response, he's like a tabloid leech able to sniff out skinny and go with it even if he's asked to hold off a bit from tweeting anything. Social media itself then of course begins to lend itself to insider cryptic tweets that ordinarily might remain harmless and cryptic, but not in our current environment of no viable, in-depth fs coverage coupled with information-starved fans.

And anymore about DL and TSL I would suggest we take to the appropriate thread.
 
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MrMystery

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^^ I agree with you @Dobre. I would NOT miss DL. I just miss in-depth coverage and interviews, but he and cohort are absolutely not the greatest interviewers in the world! It's the guests that matter! It's the guests I will miss, and in fact I already miss. As much as I love Raf, I could not sit through that interview. DL and fawning cohort have completely turned me off. They had the nerve to go from the Aliona interview to that distasteful Asian Open, etc disfest, on the very same day.



^^ Yep, I've already said that quite a few times in this thread and elsewhere. We know that. It doesn't excuse anything. But of course, there will continue to be sad business as usual, because I doubt that many people in the sport have time to waste energy on trying to stop DL's infective influence, and some people may actually like some things about him, and simply shake their heads at his over-reaching offenses, or maybe not even know the full extent of his worst behavior. Plus, no one seems willing or able to find the resources to take a next level step toward more professional, in-depth figure skating coverage. It's always fans who go the extra step to provide the coverage that's needed and not being provided by established media. Unfortunately, DL is not the nicest fan -- forget about him being respectful.



True, but it's DL stirring the pot and wringing the heck out of the platform he has control over now, largely as a result of Jenny Kirk's status and connections (and because she apparently left it all to him). Stirring the pot is all part of DL's infective influence right now, which is a shame. I used to be one of those who enabled DL by tsk-tsking yet still engaging and tuning-in because of the dearth of figure skating coverage, and because of TSL's overall value (which has little to do with DL at all).

The problem is that DL has never changed and he's never learned from his mistakes, nor has he learned anything by the fact that a number of people have kept trying to give him chances. Yes, a lot of people are not fully aware of all of DL's egregious and petty offenses. There's more than one reason why Jenny exited TSL, not all of those reasons had to do with her going to law school. DL is definitely burning his bridges and turning off a lot of people, but he's being kept afloat by the platform, by his bullish tenacity, and unfortunately by those continuing to give him chances. There are also people who may in fact not care about DL's addictive bent for scooping and the petty nastiness of his digs and slams.

And anymore about DL and TSL I would suggest we take to the appropriate thread.

Very much agreed. The only thing that will "put him out of business" is a legit news outlet that is going to report on the sport, and do so in a standup way that garners the trust of the skaters and coaches and officials which leads to them going to the outlet to break news. Unfortunate as it is, I don't particularly see something like this happening any time soon.
 

aftershocks

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Very much agreed. The only thing that will "put him out of business" is a legit news outlet that is going to report on the sport, and do so in a standup way that garners the trust of the skaters and coaches and officials which leads to them going to the outlet to break news. Unfortunate as it is, I don't particularly see something like this happening any time soon.

That is the state of affairs. Someone has to be bold, and as I said it usually comes from fans who love the sport. DL used Jenny to get where he is, and the platform is extremely valuable, largely due to the archives. I think DL knows that and he's all about taking advantage of everything at his disposal. Plus he blocks criticism on the platform, and then he's slippery about not owning up when he's called out elsewhere for his offenses. Again, he doesn't even learn anything from his guests who admonish him that they aren't there to dump on people in the sport.

The guests go on because of the platform and the archives, and the fact as I said before and as you have reiterated, there's a dearth of viable outlets. And that's even more the case with the demise of IceTalk and IN. However, Jackie Wong may be returning soon with another version of IceTalk. But we need something beyond Wong & Co too. More people have to begin to care enough to not just ignore DL, but to call him out in an organized and united way. But again, who has time for that? Skaters and coaches surely do not. Unfortunately, some fans may sneakily agree with DL or enjoy his petty approach in a guilty pleasure way. Not me, I never did. I only cared about the positive coverage, but the bad is now far outweighing the good. I can't turn my head and hold my nose any longer.

I'm taking this to the appropriate thread. Let's stop discussing it here.
 

aftershocks

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Getting back to U.S. pairs, it was brought up earlier that the Knierims resemble Gregory Peck and his second wife, Greta Kukkonen:
https://i.pinimg.com/474x/38/f6/c7/...2457bc2762--marriage-vows-hollywood-stars.jpg
https://www.instagram.com/p/BmB-zbEgTuW/?taken-by=chris_knierim

Yes, the facial resemblances are striking, especially between Chris and GPeck. With that in mind, I can see the Knierims skating to these GPeck movie soundtracks: :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYAJT5OLx2Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrDC_LuifkU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t98LWNwUhI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6N6AKI3f70
 

Willin

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D.) A coaching split can absolutely be amicable and still be something more prolonged and planned out.
ITA with this. This split seemed incredibly amicable. It seems like the team in Florida and Dalilah know their strengths and weaknesses and recognize which skaters need to switch between them or spend a few weeks at the other coach’s rink to work on a skill.
While their teams do compete, I think they both want to improve US pairs in general and are willing to do what it takes to improve the teams including shuffling skaters around.

While volunteering at Nationals I saw that while their teams practiced the top pairs coaches were swapping ideas and discussing their pairs teams.
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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A.) I like K&O and I hope that she is recovering well, and that the move will be good for them (I think it will be).

B.) I like Dalilah, as a person and as a coach.

C.) Skaters and USFS' statement is going to be similar to most when a skater changes coaches, they thank Jim, he's helped get them where they are, they are making the change to take their skating to the next level, etc.

D.) A coaching split can absolutely be amicable and still be something more prolonged and planned out.

Talk about U.S. Pairs' musical chairs.

Given that the Knierims used to take from Dalilah, maybe Tarah & Danny should bypass Sappenfield and go straight to Aliona, too.
 
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Sylvia

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I was very impressed with Finster and Nagy at Skate Detroit. Very nice debut. I do hope they get a JGP invite. They have another year of eligibility after this year so the International experience will truly help this new team.
:)
3 spots being used at Czech JGP. Is this the last JGP that has pairs?
Yes.

The 3 pairs listed for Ostrava are:
Sarah FENG / TJ NYMAN USA (#4 Vancouver is their first assignment & 3rd JGP pairs comp. of 4)
Kate FINSTER / Balazs NAGY USA (JGP debut)
Laiken LOCKLEY / Keenan PROCHNOW USA (#2 Linz is this week)

ETA: A second JGP for Feng/Nyman and Lockley/Prochnow likely will depend on their respective performances in their first assignment.
 
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maureenfarone

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:)

Yes.

The 3 pairs listed for Ostrava are:
Sarah FENG / TJ NYMAN USA (#4 Vancouver is their first assignment & 3rd JGP pairs comp. of 4)
Kate FINSTER / Balazs NAGY USA (JGP debut)
Laiken LOCKLEY / Keenan PROCHNOW USA (#2 Linz is this week)
This should be a good competition....I can hardly wait!
 
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