U.S. Pairs 2017 - News & Updates, Part VII

[Cleo1782]

^^ I agree with you @Cleo1782, but D/F seem to be gaining more confidence, and Haven doesn't seem to be wearing the knee wrap anymore. Hopefully, she's built up more strength, but they need to steadily build their confidence. They were previously in general okay on sbs jumps, but not always consistent early on in their career. D/F's strengths are their lifts, and their throws were generally good too. But their throws and sbs jumps definitely required rebuilding after Haven's comeback from surgery. Still, the Knierims really have had serious problems with landing their sbs jumps too, no matter how much that tends to get overshadowed by their other strengths.

Tarah and Danny were very consistent on sbs jumps prior to Tarah's injuries, but they have needed to work on speed and aesthetic refinement. I don't like saying that last because I think it's so snobby, but we know the status quo think. I like K/O's spark and athleticism, and they are very well matched. Good luck to them.

It would really be fun to see Deanna and Nathan skate a blinder at Nats. Give the judges and USFS something to think about eh! C/T can't go to the Olympics, but hopefully they will find themselves prepared and gritty enough to make noise, and as they said, have USFS wishing they could send them. I'm interested to see whether Ashley can fix those URs and throw landings. C/L do have promise. It's always steady as they go for everyone. I'd love to see everyone shine at U.S. Nationals and just be happy with what they put out, including C/S, P/S, S/R, et al.

Haven was very solid with her sbs before her injury and with Daniel Raad when they skated together. She just lost a lot of momentum with her injury. I would like Nationals to go off what looks to be the most 'prepared' team with the Olympic selection, however they body of work plays in. I would not just send Chris and Alexa if they look awful at Nationals. If they win great-go, but I would rather see a team peak at the Olympics then send one team that has the "body of work" for a potential score.

 

[Bellanca]

It is common knowledge that pairs remain the red-headed stepchildren among the four disciplines. Sadly, it's been that way for far too long - and they know it. There are no easy answers, but giving a damn would be a nice start. For the longest time (and probably the foreseeable future) the emphasis and support will continue to go in another direction. Until we have a team that makes it to the World or Olympic podium ... support, meaningful support, will be tepid, at best.

 

[Carolla5501]

That was a really lovely sp for Haven and Brandon at SC. Kudos to them for landing really nice sbs triples, and skating beautifully overall. I thought the judges were very stingy on the scores for them. Haven and Brandon were clearly better on everything than the two pairs preceding them in the sp. For how well Haven and Brandon performed they should have been at least two points higher IMO. The judges simply have low expectations for some skaters. Politics is so rampant. I really enjoy both of D/F's programs this season.

I agree it was a lovely program. Unfortunately that's all it was there is absolutely nothing special about it


This team seems perfectly nice but rather boring. And without some fire and "wow" I just don't think you're going to get the higher score.

 

[Carolla5501]

It is common knowledge that pairs remain the red-headed stepchildren among the four disciplines. Sadly, it's been that way for far too long - and they know it. There are no easy answers, but giving a damn would be a nice start. For the longest time (and probably the foreseeable future) the emphasis and support will continue to go in another direction. Until we have a team that makes it to the World or Olympic podium, support, meaningful support, will be tepid, at best.

One solution might be to start rewarding what the skaters put on the ice at the event instead of the "body of work". We sent skaters last year to worlds based on "body of work". I don't think it worked out the way we wanted it to


I have a feeling that we already know who's going to Olympics for the US and it won't matter what they put on the ice in January. Which is sad.

 

[oleada]

One solution might be to start rewarding what the skaters put on the ice at the event instead of the "body of work". We sent skaters last year to worlds based on "body of work". I don't think it worked out the way we wanted it to


I have a feeling that we already know who's going to Olympics for the US and it won't matter what they put on the ice in January. Which is sad.

I would argue that it did - the Knierims were the highest finishing US teams and did about as well as they could. The US would've been a lot worse off without them. It was Denney/Frazier who did not do well, and they won at Nationals. It wasn't like Nationals was a well skated event, and none of the other teams were consistent throughout the season. It was unfortunate that D/F did not make the free but any of the other US pairs was just as likely to do poorly. The two teams that went were the top two US teams at 4CC.

 

[Cleo1782]

I would argue that it did - the Knierims were the highest finishing US teams and did about as well as they could. The US would've been a lot worse off without them. It was Denney/Frazier who did not do well, and they won at Nationals. It wasn't like Nationals was a well skated event, and none of the other teams were consistent throughout the season. It was unfortunate that D/F did not make the free but any of the other US pairs was just as likely to do poorly. The two teams that went were the top two US teams at 4CC.

I would agree we were in a rock and a hard place at Worlds. There was a possibility of D/F not making the free, as Nationals was not a good event, nor were the US pairs at 4cc's, but who else were we going to send? I don't think C/T or C/L had a better chance to make it to the free then D/F. They could have if they skated well, but I wouldn't have bet on them over our US champs. The only other team with prior World Championship and multiple 4cc's experience (together) was K/O and they were out with injury. Without Alexa and Chris we could have had two teams not reach the free, but in the end we would have earned a spot at Nebelhorn for the Olympics, but at least with Alexa and Chris skating we got two world spots.

 

[aftershocks]

This is cool from Ash and Timothy. Is it from a feature in Skating Magazine, I wonder?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BapKlcDjs5g/?hl=en&taken-by=icegirlash

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ba2fjVQjmOi/?hl=en&taken-by=icegirlash

Meet Ashley Cain and Timothy LeDuc: Rewriting Their Story (U.S. Figure Skating Twitter)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_NF9ZL1xWo
Ahhh sweet, there's no reason not to set lofty goals and try to reach for the stars! Good luck Ash & Timothy!

And thanks to @Josh78 for retweeting! https://twitter.com/skatefan78

 

[Sylvia]

This is cool from Ash and Timothy. Is it from a feature in Skating Magazine, I wonder?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BapKlcDjs5g/?hl=en&taken-by=icegirlash

Yes. Link: http://content.digitalpub.blue-soho...SKATING/html/index.html?page=32&origin=reader

I hope Cain/LeDuc will have an enjoyable and productive Grand Prix debut this week!

 

[AKA]

When do we know which teams (novice-senior) are competing at sectionals? Any pair teams have a bye to Nationals?

 

[aftershocks]

Yes. Link: http://content.digitalpub.blue-soho...SKATING/html/index.html?page=32&origin=reader

I hope Cain/LeDuc will have an enjoyable and productive Grand Prix debut this week!

Thanks @Sylvia for posting the link to the Skating mag feature. I'd seen the pic of the guys previously on Instagram, but I hadn't checked for the source. Thanks again. I think the Skating mag pictures of top skaters in the 'personal style' feature are really nice and better than the Olympic session photos, as the skaters seem a bit more relaxed and into it. Aside from Jason who always looks relaxed and into it, as he seems to be able to live fully in each moment.

I would agree we were in a rock and a hard place at Worlds. There was a possibility of D/F not making the free, as Nationals was not a good event, nor were the US pairs at 4cc's, but who else were we going to send? I don't think C/T or C/L had a better chance to make it to the free then D/F. They could have if they skated well, but I wouldn't have bet on them over our US champs. The only other team with prior World Championship and multiple 4cc's experience (together) was K/O and they were out with injury. Without Alexa and Chris we could have had two teams not reach the free, but in the end we would have earned a spot at Nebelhorn for the Olympics, but at least with Alexa and Chris skating we got two world spots.

Agree. I don't think there's any getting around the fact that the main issue for U.S. pairs over the past season has been injuries and health issues hampering momentum and results of the top teams (S-K/K, D/F, and K/O). And then the two newest and very promising partnerships (C/L and S-D/B), although both teams advanced very quickly especially with courageously incorporating the essential throw 3-twist, they were still new teams who could not be expected to challenge veteran teams internationally to spectacular results.

Still, I would not say that U.S. Nats was completely disastrous for our pairs in 2017. I wish NBC had broadcast the sp event and then only shown highlights of the free programs last January. It would have made for better television and also been a more accurate portrayal of the teams' strengths and weaknesses. There were some very uplifting and dramatic moments in the sp at 2017 U.S. Nationals, pairs discipline. Not everything was moan and groan, no matter the overall downturn in momentum re the free program performances. And without question, USFS members could have and should have made better decisions re event assignments. They should have brought the skaters and their coaches into aspects of the decision process. But, oh well, that's not the way USFS floats their boat (so it sunk and has to be refurbished). The perennial question is: What has USFS learned in the process? Anything?

Another question: Who will consider bringing back/ updating this gem?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvp96fqlRTk
Great story-based/ character-based choreo for a pairs team.

And even if it's not brought back in this form exactly, it should DEFINITELY serve as inspiration. This indeed, is part of what I'm talking about when I mention learning fs history, making connections between past & present, and gaining inspiration.

 

[Sylvia]

Any pair teams have a bye to Nationals?

Only Senior teams have byes to Nationals this year (7): Denney/Frazier, Castelli/Tran, Cain/LeDuc, Stellato/Bartholomay, Pfund/Santillan, Knierims, Liu/Johnson.

I believe that leaves less than 12 Senior pairs (I count 8 eta: 9) for Sectionals so they can elect to compete or not.

There could be up to 14 or 15 Junior teams and maybe up to 15 Novice pairs; I don't know yet when any of the 3 Sectionals will publish numbers/their names.

 

[pairskatingfan]

Only Senior teams have byes to Nationals this year (7): Denney/Frazier, Castelli/Tran, Cain/LeDuc, Stellato/Bartholomay, Pfund/Santillan, Knierims, Liu/Johnson.

I believe that leaves less than 12 Senior pairs (I count 8) for Sectionals so they can elect to compete or not.

There could be up to 14 or 15 Junior teams and maybe up to 15 Novice pairs; I don't know yet when any of the 3 Sectionals will publish numbers/their names.

So we should expect 15 senior teams this year?

 

[Sylvia]

So we should expect 15 senior teams this year?

Up to 16. I missed counting Kayne/O'Shea earlier.

 

[Cleo1782]

Up to 16. I missed counting Kayne/O'Shea earlier.

There is also a possibility that a team could get Golden Spin (that doesn't already have a Challenger) and get a bye correct?

Although that wouldn't change the number of teams just the byes.

 

[Sylvia]

Being assigned to Golden Spin isn't likely to give anyone a bye because it takes place 3 weeks after Sectionals, but it shouldn't matter since there currently appears to be fewer than 12 pairs registered for Sectionals.

The 9 Senior pairs in my count are: Kayne/O'Shea, Calalang/Sidhu, Smith/Reiss, Fields/Stevens, Digerness/Neudecker, Deardorff/Settlage, Yao/Simon, Allison Timlen/Justin Highgate-Brutman, Jade Esposito/Rique Newby-Estrella.

 

[aftershocks]

... Until we have a team that makes it to the World or Olympic podium ... support, meaningful support, will be tepid, at best.

I'm not in opposition to your thinking. But OTOH, without way much more than 'tepid' support, increased resources and development, as well as more competitive opportunities, making it to World and/or Olympic podiums for U.S. pairs can't really happen without some kind of miracle or hugely naturally talented team with great coaches suddenly materializing out of thin air. Can it? See the last several pages and my previous posts #1186 and #1191 in particular.

Absent more focused energy, support, involvement and enthusiasm by USFS, we're left with the tough row to hoe that's already happening: our teams doing the best they can with what's currently available to them, and trying to improve incrementally (whilst praying for no more injuries and health setbacks). The most important thing at the moment is for teams to stick together through thick and thin (the splitsville hemorraghing/ recurrent partner-switching has to stop). Increased fan support and understanding, with less aimless criticism might also be a boon.

I'm serious about hoping to see someone bring back or be inspired by Peter Oppegard's The Sorcerer's Apprentice program for a pair team. Probably Oppegard's permission would be needed to take liberally from the original choreo. It might be cool to see John Z and John Kerr adapt it for a team. Again, the choreo and concept might look good on U.S. teams such as Cain/LeDuc, K/O, Dear/Settl, Diger/Neu, and maybe Cala/Sid. And internationally: Sav/Mas or James/Cipres perhaps. I'm quite certain if the Russian team Tar/Mor had a free program of this nature, they would likely deserve their humongous overscores on composition and interpretation. The crap programs T/M have been putting out for far too long do them absolutely no justice. I would hate to see T/M on the Olympic podium at all with that horrid dumbed-down Candyman shock-trocity. Surely there's a way to update The Sorcerer's Apprentice under IJS/COP.

Interestingly, there's a move that Stieg/Zim do @2:19 in this program that's ahead of it's time -- shades of Sav/Szol's Pina moves that spawned the leans, angled slides and backward leaning head holds we are seeing in many programs these days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvp96fqlRTk

 

[Sylvia]

Th Knierims are featured in the second part of IN's "Ice Talk" podcast today and mentioned near the end that they have decided to return to last season's "Come What May" SP. Their first GP is NHK Trophy next week.

 

[aftershocks]

I just saw this 23 Questions with the Knierims (& cameo from Karen Chen). I don't know if it was already posted earlier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aBY1frMfn8

I love Alexa with her cats in the enclosed baby carriage. She must take them for walks that way. Since cats have a mind of their own, I suppose that's one way to protect them from the huge doggies, and to corral them for the camera (although we don't get a good look at the cute kitties )

Maybe the St. Bernards are good with cats. But some huge dogs (especially hunting variety like German Short-haired Pointers and even Weimaraners) are real predators to small furries.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

Th Knierims are featured in the second part of IN's "Ice Talk" podcast today and mentioned near the end that they have decided to return to last season's "Come What May" SP. Their first GP is NHK Trophy next week.

Not surprising since this is the nightmare season of all things Moulin Rouge.

 

[clairecloutier]

Not surprising since this is the nightmare season of all things Moulin Rouge.

And of program repeats.

I did have a feeling this would happen, as they didn't seem fully comfortable yet with the "Paint It Black" SP at U.S. Classic (as Chris himself commented).

 

[el henry]

And of program repeats.

I did have a feeling this would happen, as they didn't seem fully comfortable yet with the "Paint It Black" SP at U.S. Classic (as Chris himself commented).

Thx for the info @Sylvia . Bummed, since I liked Paint It Black, but I got the impression from their interview with Ted Flett that Rohene’s process may not have been their process (and that was completely conjecture and body language reading on my part, and nothing they actually said.) Also bummed since I like Rohene programs.

Does anyone know of any reasons given?

And I have to say, two lovey dovey programs might not be my first choice for the season. But they gotta do what they feel comfy with!

 

[lmarie086]

I'm disappointed - I thought the "Paint it Black" SP had loads of potential, though it definitely was pretty raw at US Classic. I mean the important thing is for them to feel comfortable, but was hoping for this new SP to grow as the season went on.

 

[chachacha]

I'm disappointed - I thought the "Paint it Black" SP had loads of potential, though it definitely was pretty raw at US Classic. I mean the important thing is for them to feel comfortable, but was hoping for this new SP to grow as the season went on.

I'm a big fan of Chris and Alexa but to go back and repeat two programs shows they have not grown in their skating and can really only rely on one Chandra of music. But so many Moulin Rouge this season! But hopefully it will allow them to be comfortable in there skating so they can skate to their full potential. Just would have liked them to have shown some growth in the music choices.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Th Knierims are featured in the second part of IN's "Ice Talk" podcast today and mentioned near the end that they have decided to return to last season's "Come What May" SP. Their first GP is NHK Trophy next week.

Oh Dear, thanks for the warning...

LOL, they said they wanted 2 new programs this year....blah blah LOL

Their best program was the Metallica SP so this lovey-dovey isn't their only genre..in fact the Paint It Black seemed right up Metallica's alley. Wish they woulda showed some diversity between their SP and free.

I think the real star of these Olympics Game ..... drum roll........ Nicole Kidman. who woulda thunk?

 

[Dobre]

I'm a big fan of Chris and Alexa but to go back and repeat two programs shows they have not grown in their skating and can really only rely on one Chandra of music.

I don't think so. The Metallica was one of their best programs.

Ditching both new programs is a shame (think of all the time and energy that never reached fruition). Last season's programs were a bit sugary sweet for my taste so I was looking forward to the new ones; but to be fair to Alexa & Chris, they only skated these programs twice due to her surgery last season. If anyone from U.S. Nationals had a valid argument for keeping their programs, S-K&K did.

(Though why oh why all the Moulin Rouge at U.S. Nationals?! Did no one foresee the collision of Karen, Vincent, Ashley, S-K&K, Manta & Johnson, and Torgashev as being a bit much?)

 

[chachacha]

I don't think so. The Metallica was one of their best programs.

Ditching both new programs is a shame (think of all the time and energy that never reached fruition). Last season's programs were a bit sugary sweet for my taste so I was looking forward to the new ones; but to be fair to Alexa & Chris, they only skated these programs twice due to her surgery last season. If anyone from U.S. Nationals had a valid argument for keeping their programs, S-K&K did.

(Though why oh why all the Moulin Rouge at U.S. Nationals?! Did no one foresee the collision of Karen, Vincent, Ashley, S-K&K, Manta & Johnson, and Torgashev as being a bit much?)

yes Metallica was excellent but the majority of the music they choose is love story's and they just are not showing they are able to pull off other music selections. But regardless of only showing their programs twice they had plenty of time to at least come out with 1 new program vs repeating two programs that are in the same Chandra but if it helps them hit their elements then so be it! Wishing them luck at NHK! Are there any other international top teams who kept both programs from last season?

 

[aftershocks]

Why the references to Moulin Rouge? Is Come What May part of MR? I thought it was from Ghost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEQULJOa7Ks Knierims Worlds 2017 sp Come What May

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY5PhofI290 Knierims SLC 2017 sp Paint It Black
(audio is bad on this clip)

I think Alexa & Chris made a wise decision to go back to the sp they skated at Worlds. Like @Dobre points out, they didn't get a chance to gain good use out of it and flesh it out more. They seem much more comfortable with it over Paint It Black choreo. Plus if they want to go back to the edgy genre, just bring back the Metallica which is better than PIB. They could use the Metallica sp in exhibition or something (since I'm not certain they are staying in after this season), .

 

[RoseRed]

Why the references to Moulin Rouge? Is Come What May part of MR? I thought it was from Ghost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEQULJOa7Ks Knierims Worlds 2017 sp Come What May

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY5PhofI290 Knierims SLC 2017 sp Paint It Black
(audio is bad on this clip)

I think Alexa & Chris made a wise decision to go back to the sp they skated at Worlds. Like @Dobre points out, they didn't get a chance to gain good use out of it and flesh it out more. They seem much more comfortable with it over Paint It Black choreo. Plus if they want to go back to the edgy genre, just bring back the Metallica which is better than PIB. They could use the Metallica sp in exhibition or something (since I'm not certain they are staying in after this season), .

Yes Come What May is from Moulin Rouge. Tessa and Scott use it in the second half of their free. Ghost is Alexa and Chris' FS I believe.

 

[Cleo1782]

Why the references to Moulin Rouge? Is Come What May part of MR? I thought it was from Ghost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEQULJOa7Ks Knierims Worlds 2017 sp Come What May

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY5PhofI290 Knierims SLC 2017 sp Paint It Black
(audio is bad on this clip)

I think Alexa & Chris made a wise decision to go back to the sp they skated at Worlds. Like @Dobre points out, they didn't get a chance to gain good use out of it and flesh it out more. They seem much more comfortable with it over Paint It Black choreo. Plus if they want to go back to the edgy genre, just bring back the Metallica which is better than PIB. They could use the Metallica sp in exhibition or something (since I'm not certain they are staying in after this season), .

Come what may is the popular love ballad sung by Nicole Kidman and Ewan McGregor in Moulin Rouge. It was their short last year. Ghost was their long last year as well, so they are basically going back to last year's programs.
I didn't like the cover they used for Paint it Black but I liked the idea.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

I prefer the Knierims' sappy programs to Metallica. I thought the faces in Metallica were too OTT. Their "Rise Up" exhibition was their best program for me.