2017 U.S. Stars on Ice (April 13 & May 4-21): publicity articles, fan reports & more

[twizzlesizzle]

No, I'm not that invested into youtube videos to figure out who owns what. I just thought it looked the same so it could have been it. But we can't really be sure other than from the info you provided about this problem poster.
I appreciate fans uploading videos. I have had videos of mine reuploaded by other posters and I don't really care if they "recycle" them because I feel any views gone towards skating is benefitting it in the long run. But that's my own opinion.

Your view is your view. I'm someone who lives in the world of a creative. If something is cited to the original source, I don't see an issue. They either got permission and/or are giving credit to the person that actually created the picture/video/recording (whatever it may be). It's when it's NOT credited that it becomes a problem.

Also, don't forget that it's against the Terms of Service of this forum to risk copyright infringement.

"You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws.

All Content you submit or upload may be reviewed by staff members. All Content you submit or upload may be sent to third-party verification services (including, but not limited to, spam prevention services). Do not submit any Content that you consider to be private or confidential.

We reserve the rights to remove or modify any Content submitted for any reason without explanation. Requests for Content to be removed or modified will be undertaken only at our discretion. We reserve the right to take action against any account with the Service at any time."

 

[Sylvia]

Here's a complete version of the finale in Hershey, PA to Timberlake's "Can't Stop the Feeling" (from the Trolls film soundtrack): < link to stolen/uncredited video uploaded by "Gracie Gold Fans Ecuador" on YT removed >

Thanks to @mollymgr for finding what looks to be the original video (uploaded 1 day earlier than the suspect one I linked to) with the caption "Great finale but missed part of it. Still enjoyable to watch!!!": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy8f52syhGo

Same person uploaded one more fan cam from Hershey - Davis/White's "Sax" (Fleur East): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BPPk_Mcu7Y

 

[mollymgr]

Your view is your view. I'm someone who lives in the world of a creative. If something is cited to the original source, I don't see an issue. They either got permission and/or are giving credit to the person that actually created the picture/video/recording (whatever it may be). It's when it's NOT credited that it becomes a problem.

Also, don't forget that it's against the Terms of Service of this forum to risk copyright infringement.

"You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws.

All Content you submit or upload may be reviewed by staff members. All Content you submit or upload may be sent to third-party verification services (including, but not limited to, spam prevention services). Do not submit any Content that you consider to be private or confidential.

We reserve the rights to remove or modify any Content submitted for any reason without explanation. Requests for Content to be removed or modified will be undertaken only at our discretion. We reserve the right to take action against any account with the Service at any time."

Shouldn't it be SOI's responsibility to do this since they are the ones whose copyright is being infringed upon? The original person was just filming the show and not really creating original content (shouldn't have been doing that in the first place). The original content is the skating show. If you want to get technical, both posters are in the wrong.

 

[twizzlesizzle]

Shouldn't it be SOI's responsibility to do this since they are the ones whose copyright is being infringed upon? The original person was just filming the show and not really creating original content (shouldn't have been doing that in the first place). The original content is the skating show. If you want to get technical, both posters are in the wrong.

Ha, then anything Sylvia's ever posted here is illegal under that logic.

 

[mollymgr]

Ha, then anything Sylvia's ever posted here is illegal under that logic.

Yes, all fan bootleg videos are. I have lost youtube accounts uploading Nationals videos which the USFS hates. I create disposable ones now.

 

[twizzlesizzle]

Yes, all fan bootleg videos are. I have lost youtube accounts uploading Nationals videos. I create disposable ones now.

If you have attended a SOI show, all they say is no flash photography. Depending on your arena you go to, they may have more strict rules, but all SOI says is no flash photos.

Now Japan has it right. Over there, they strip you of anything that can create media. If they catch you, your device has the memory card removed or erased on the spot.

 

[twizzlesizzle]

Yes, all fan bootleg videos are. I have lost youtube accounts uploading Nationals videos which the USFS hates. I create disposable ones now.

Videos such as that, USFS has the NBC contract/IceNetwork. Obviously you can see a reason for a conflict of interest there.

 

[mollymgr]

If you have attended a SOI show, all they say is no flash photography. Depending on your arena you go to, they may have more strict rules, but all SOI says is no flash photos.

Now Japan has it right. Over there, they strip you of anything that can create media. If they catch you, your device has the memory card removed or erased on the spot.

What I'm trying to say that it is not original content to be claiming copyright infrigement on. Here is the definition of what bootleg means. The only person who has a right to sue for that is SOI.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootleg_recording
A bootleg recording is an audio or video recording of a performance that was not officially released by the artist or under other legal authority.

Yes, if I uploaded another user's Nationals videos the USFS would be coming after me and the other user too. The other user has no right to claim copyright infrigement on something that doesn't belong to them in the first place.

On that note, thank you Sylvia for all the info on SOI. I hope more stuff shows up from the California shows.

 

[twizzlesizzle]

What I'm trying to say that it is not original content to be claiming copyright infrigement on. Here is the definition of what bootleg means. The only person who has a right to sue for that is SOI.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootleg_recording
A bootleg recording is an audio or video recording of a performance that was not officially released by the artist or under other legal authority.

Yes, if I uploaded another user's Nationals videos the USFS would be coming after me and the other user too. The other user has no right to claim copyright infrigement on something that doesn't belong to them in the first place.

Wow, we've resorted to using wiki? 'bout as good as people who hunt down videos and post them without really caring where they came from.

Also, this is the battle that reigns supreme in the Intellectual Property on Social media era. Trust me when I say that there were people at my SOI shows that recorded the whole show, beginning to end. So, if you want to keep this going, that's fine. I see no further point here when it's been determined by you that, well, everyone's guilty. Guess we should get the admin's to take down all the media then, right?

 

[Alilou]

So if you prefer not to do it, then maybe it's best to leave it alone and not post it. But hey, no one else knows how to search for anything on the web, right?

After all @Sylvia does for this board you go yapping on at her about a video not correctly accredited! Jeez!

 

[ZilphaK]

Stars on Ice allows camera/video without flash but also states that it's the venue that decides the photography/camera policies for professional shows, although Giant Center says the shows can modify their policy. Otherwise, Giant Center in Hershey is a no video venue. However, as a journalist, I'm invited to shows there and short clips for social media are generally encouraged. Disney On Ice, for example, says nothing about video, but didn't want me to photograph any of the merchandise. I've taken and posted videos to Facebook and Instagram of AHL hockey games and tagged AHL on it, and they were just hunky-dory with it.

In general, shows like the social media promo. Without contacting my attorney friend who I contact all the time to clarify and re-clarify, I'd hazard a guess and say that whoever made the "original" video is already skating on thin legal ice regarding claiming any copyright unless he/she were licensed by SOI to shoot the video or possibly if he/she were a member of the media invited to video the show. IOW, claiming "copyright" infringement because someone "stole" their video of an essentially unlicensed video of a pro show would be...bold.

As it is, however, I'd say that if YouTube pulled a video of an "original" or "stolen" unlicensed video, it would be to shut down nuisance complaints between people who both took what weren't theirs; ultimately, I'm guessing YouTube could make everyone sit in a corner and pull both videos, the "original" and the "stolen" for copyright infringement of music.

However, however, since social media is free advertising, SOI isn't going to complain about shared videos, as long as someone isn't in there with a pro camera taking video (which this wasn't, not by a long shot) and reselling it or making gobs of money off YouTube ads (which Justin Timberlake would never allow; he has more pull on this than SOI, the Giant Center or whoever is complaining about stolen content.) SOI allows it because they want people to share the content and create buzz...thus the hashtags, etc.

Which is all to say that I wouldn't hassle Sylvia over this.

 

[Prancer]

Also, this is the battle that reigns supreme in the Intellectual Property on Social media era. Trust me when I say that there were people at my SOI shows that recorded the whole show, beginning to end. So, if you want to keep this going, that's fine. I see no further point here when it's been determined by you that, well, everyone's guilty. Guess we should get the admin's to take down all the media then, right?

Um, mollymgr is actually correct about the copyright; SOI and only SOI holds that copyright and people are not supposed to record and upload videos of public performances. This is why we don't allow people to post video here directly; we (briefly) did in the past and we heard about it for hosting the video.

We are not, however, responsible for content posted on other sites, including YouTube, which is why we ask people to post links to video and images instead of embedding them in posts here. If SOI has an issue with the video Sylvia linked, SOI can have the video taken down and the links will no longer work. If anyone is concerned about property rights to video posted elsewhere, my suggestion is that you take it up with the site where it was posted rather than taking it up with people who post links to those sites here.

I changed the link in all relevant posts, but I did it because it was apparently an issue, not because I see any need to do so. If anyone has a problem with that, PM me.

Perhaps @antmanb would like to comment (or not).

Otherwise, let's move on.

 

[Sylvia]

San Jose fan cams from rather far away:

Gracie Gold - "Golden" (Ruth B): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvBJpbXy5FQ

Karen Chen - "Rise" (Katy Perry): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYmLgIt4-48

Nathan Chen - "Stole the Show" (Kygo): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbhegoPkLU4

Ashley Wagner - "Exogenesis: Symphony Part III" (Muse): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsz4JVazw34

 

[AxelAnnie]

Nathan and Karen were showstoppers. Karen's BUTTERFLY LOVERS was worth the price of admission''''' and the 3 hour snail paced drive down.

Both those kids had packed programs. And their connection to the music and audience impeccable.

Ashley was great. 8 nice jumps over the two programs. She jumps out in the group numbers. She has such a presence.

Adam....he was rather great. I thought he was 6' + tall. I was wrong. Really enjoyed him.

Our seats were on the ice. Fabulous.

Meryl and Charlie were their impeccable selves. Devine.

Chock and Bates tango with the chair exuded sex. Really great.

Hubble and Donahue...blah. but I think it was their first show.

Jeremy Abbott...his programs were esoteric and over my head. He did two back flips. That was at least fun.

And I think that leaves us with Gracie. I don't know what to say. She is a BIG girl. She did two double jumps over two programs. Lots of arm flailing. Her music choices were someone's idea of a statement...I am gold...doesnt matter what people say...etc. it was soooooo sad . Her face was sad when she skated past. Her lack of either conditioning or pride was most obvious in the group numbers. All the ladies legs up to 10 o'clock Gracie lifted hers to maybe 8 o'clock. Her arms were rarely in sync with the others. I don't think she will be a contender. I hope she puts herself out of what appears to be misery and finds something she loves.

I am buying tickets to Nationals in the AM.
Karen is a force to be reckoned with. I would never count Ashley out. And Polina.....who knows? Then you get to the galas who on any given day could spoil the party for everybody else. Marai and Mariah. Will be a fun year.

 

[jkl]

How was attendance in San Jose? Hopefully it was better than previous stops.

 

[kwanfan1818]

You'd have to ask. I think you'd be capable. I mean, you're on me about it. I'd actually love to be an intellectual property lawyer.

And why should anyone ask? It's between the "owner" and YouTube, plus Stars on Ice, if posting original or otherwise videos is prohibited, and the recording artists or rights owners, if posting videos with their music is prohibited unless permission is granted.

Any self-motivated asking, reasearch, and discretion is gravy.

 

[Sylvia]

Jeremy Abbott - "Land Of All" - Stars On Ice 2017 San Jose
(by Minori Y.): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_DYn9uZ6iI

 

[glorybox64]

Wow, not to be too harsh on Gracie, but remember when folks like Katarina Witt and Rosalynn Sumners would sometimes get flak for "only" doing a double axel or (in the case of Kat) sometimes a triple toe? They were both out-jumping (not to mention out-performing) what Gracie is currently capable of, apparently. And they were markedly older than Gracie when they were doing it.

It's very sad to see her in this state, and sadder yet to see that SOI in its current state thinks this is an acceptable level for the ticketbuyers. No wonder the tour is in shambles.

They need an international roster of talent mixing new/young faces with veterans, experimenting to a wide range of music (slow, fast, classical, electronic) that pushes people outside of their comfort zones. I know the economics of this are difficult, but surely (if done correctly) it could pull in more revenue to offset the additional cost and win back some fans?

 

[clairecloutier]

They need an international roster of talent mixing new/young faces with veterans, experimenting to a wide range of music (slow, fast, classical, electronic) that pushes people outside of their comfort zones. I know the economics of this are difficult, but surely (if done correctly) it could pull in more revenue to offset the additional cost and win back some fans?

I agree they could use some more international talent on the roster, a better mix of music ... They need more attention to showmanship, audience connection, personality, IMO. I keep wondering why Jason isn't on the tour--he's so great at connecting with audiences. (Maybe he chose not to do it?) And what about someone like Misha Ge? He'd be terrific. Or James/Cipres--they're training in America now. How about some more younger guest stars like the Parsons or McNamara/Carpenter. Either of them could've performed their SDs from this year, and that would've added a different energy. Someone like Deniss Vasiljevs or say Marchei/Hotarek. They may not be big names, but they can perform and be engaging ... Just some ideas.

 

[Jayar]

Attendance was not great. MANY open seats.

 

[Teamgracie]

I just don't understand why people continually criticize Gracie, and it's sad/scary because she is on social media and can read all the junk that is said. Why can't skating fans be kind and supportive? What has she ever done to deserve such comments? Would you want your daughter, niece, sister commented on this way, not to be harsh but?? She is a remarkable athlete and we don't know what may or may not be going on in her personal life, show some basic kindness, please

 

[Spun Silver]

I agree they could use some more international talent on the roster, a better mix of music ... They need more attention to showmanship, audience connection, personality, IMO. I keep wondering why Jason isn't on the tour--he's so great at connecting with audiences. (Maybe he chose not to do it?) And what about someone like Misha Ge? He'd be terrific. Or James/Cipres--they're training in America now. How about some more younger guest stars like the Parsons or McNamara/Carpenter. Either of them could've performed their SDs from this year, and that would've added a different energy. Someone like Deniss Vasiljevs or say Marchei/Hotarek. They may not be big names, but they can perform and be engaging ... Just some ideas.

Misha Ge would be incredible but that guy doesnt seem to have a minute free. He is always on the go and I have lost count of how many programs he has already choreographed for next season. And ITA re James-Cipres! Big missed opportunity.

Carreira and Ponomarenko or the Greens would be cool too. The Greens' hip hop program from this past season would be a crowd pleaser! I think the kids in the audience would enjoy seeing some really young, super-talented skaters along with the Stars.

 

[skatesindreams]

Teamgracie, this is an international message board.
You are going to hear a range of opinions; supportive and otherwise, here.

I'm sensitive to the fact that athletes could read what I post.
However, I don't expect others to feel the same.

 

[YukiNieve]

Stars on Ice has relationships with IMG, and I guess that might affect who will be in.

On another matter, I heard SAP Center in San Jose posted a note that camera lenses that are longer than 6 inches are not permitted and there was some enforcement about it. This is the place where US Nationals will take place next year, and I really hope that they will not be so strict for that event...

 

[WildRose]

Stars on Ice has relationships with IMG, and I guess that might affect who will be in.
..

Nope. Lots of skaters have performed on Stars on Ice over the years who have not been IMG clients. For example Kurt Browning & Elvis Stojko aren't IMG clients and they are both skating on the Canadian Stars on Ice tour this year.

 

[Teamgracie]

Teamgracie, this is an international message board.
You are going to hear a range of opinions; supportive and otherwise, here.

I'm sensitive to the fact that athletes could read what I post.
However, I don't expect others to feel the same.

Yes I understand, and I'm just expressing my opinions on comments that I feel can be harmful. I think it's okay that a voice for kindness can also be posted?
I may like some skaters more than others but I'm not posting things about the ones I don't cheer for that are hurtful to them as people.

 

[honey]

Nope. Lots of skaters have performed on Stars on Ice over the years who have not been IMG clients. For example Kurt Browning & Elvis Stojko aren't IMG clients and they are both skating on the Canadian Stars on Ice tour this year.

Kurt and Elvis are also two of the biggest stars on the tour and absolute icons in the country they are touring in. They have quite a bit of clout in terms of getting on the tour as a non-IMG client. Where the IMG relationship comes into play is for the lesser known skaters. If you look at who has gotten guest spots on tour (US and Canada)in the past, it's almost always gone to IMG skaters. My bet is that if they have to choose between two skaters with roughly equal medal hauls and relatively unknown status, they're picking the one who has an IMG agent.

 

[twizzlesizzle]

I agree they could use some more international talent on the roster, a better mix of music ... They need more attention to showmanship, audience connection, personality, IMO. I keep wondering why Jason isn't on the tour--he's so great at connecting with audiences. (Maybe he chose not to do it?) And what about someone like Misha Ge? He'd be terrific. Or James/Cipres--they're training in America now. How about some more younger guest stars like the Parsons or McNamara/Carpenter. Either of them could've performed their SDs from this year, and that would've added a different energy. Someone like Deniss Vasiljevs or say Marchei/Hotarek. They may not be big names, but they can perform and be engaging ... Just some ideas.

So, you're saying to get rid of Jeff Buttle? Agreed. There's so much more that could've been done with a theme of "In Dreams", but this years show is what we got instead. Interestingly, there's now becoming a divide on here. There's the crowd that wants the jumps and the other side that wants the showmanship. Sadly, there's very few that can pull off both.

It's very sad to see her in this state, and sadder yet to see that SOI in its current state thinks this is an acceptable level for the ticketbuyers. No wonder the tour is in shambles.

I just don't understand why people continually criticize Gracie, and it's sad/scary because she is on social media and can read all the junk that is said. Why can't skating fans be kind and supportive? What has she ever done to deserve such comments? Would you want your daughter, niece, sister commented on this way, not to be harsh but?? She is a remarkable athlete and we don't know what may or may not be going on in her personal life, show some basic kindness, please

Gracie was more than likely signed last year after the tour in anticipation for this year. The management basically had to deal with what they got from her for this years tour.

As far as criticizing GG goes, her performance(s) have been nothing short of atrocious. At SOI she wasn't even phoning it in. It was that bad. She didn't look happy, she wasn't having fun. You could see her trying to work, whereas everyone else was into their programs, knew what they were doing, and they were connecting and having fun. She's not.

She's not the same GG that ascended to the top of the ranks. She's got a long way to go to get back to that... if she chooses to.[/QUOTE]

 

[Sylvia]

2 more rather far away fan cams from San Jose:

2 minutes of Karen Chen's "Butterfly Lovers": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiiwIsDoHz4

2+ minutes of Nathan Chen's "Parachute": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24C68_hA_Hg

Vincent Zhou will make his SOI debut tonight in Anaheim (one show only).

 

[starrynight]

The concept of SOI basically relies a lot on star power. Because the show format (some quickly put together group numbers) and a bunch of random exhibition skates with dialled down tech content on small ice isn't particularly groundbreaking. You need lots of people who just want to go for the skaters themselves.

If there weren't any restrictions, I'd love to get the cast together and have them do something like Fairy Tales on Ice and have them all do programs depicting various fairytales (I could imagine Madison Chock and Evan Bates doing a good Aladdin program). But again the rehearsal time for this would be more significant and costs etc so that's why we have the format we have.

It's this cycle of 'we don't have money because we don't sell seats, so we can't spend money on production and rehearsal, so we don't sell seats so we don't have money...'