Oscars 2016

Yes politics - one needs to get on Harvey Weinsteins' good side.

I did see both Concussion and Creed. Michael B Jordan was way better than Smith. Not saying he deserved a nod, as I have not see all the other noms, but a Jordan would be more worthy to me. One of the young actors from 'Straight Outta Compton' would not have suprised me with a nom.
I have not seen Beasts of No Nation - but have heard good things about Idris Elba (and anything I have seen him in - he is amazing, way better actor than Smith). But isn't it a netflix movie or some other controversy around it?
Can't think of others right now. But every year there are always the 'snubbed' list in various publications.
This is creating dialogue and hopefully will result in forward movement.
If one black actor/actress was nominated this year - this conversation would most likely not be happening, and change might be slower. Trying to be optimistic, but change is slow.
 
I saw Carol last night. Enjoyable, both actresses were good. But Rooney Mara as 'supporting' - wtf - she is the lead. I love Blanchett - but her role could be considered supporting, but also as lead. I had seen Todd Haynes 'Far from Heaven' - which was visually a beautiful movie, very colorful. I found Carol a bit more 'bleak' in the colors. Appropriate for the story.

One observation - there are several scenes in hotel/motel rooms in both the Drake Hotel in Chicago (nice hotel) and motels outside metro areas (bland).
I found it interesting that it was 2 twin beds in the room. When did hotels/motels switch to to double/queen beds? Just something I noticed. I do not think I have a seen a twin bed in an American hotel/motel, except when I was a kid, but it was one double/queen and one twin squeezed in.
I love noticing things like that - little things that have changed over time, not the obvious - like all the smoking people did back then.
 
Japanfan said:
What black actors/actresses do you think should have received a nomination, but didn't?

The Oscars are always a very biased affair, but the nominations are supposed to be based on merit first, not to meet a certain standard of ethnic diversity.

That said, the Hollywood machine itself could be a lot more diverse. Native Americans are particularly underrepresented in Hollywood films and there is a lot of sexism as well.
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Later in my post (if you read the complete post; may be you just read the first paragraph and stopped reading) I did mention that there are not enough high quality roles for the minorities (paraphrasing myself). THAT is the systemic problem, and it was mentioned in the article I read.

This year there was no black actress with a deserving role, but there may have been black actors (I think 'Beast of ...' got a few nominations outside of the Oscars) that were deserving. Also an example from the recent past (last year?) was Selma not getting the recognition it deserved, and no nomination for the black actor who very effectively portrayed MLK. That was later in my post, so may be you didn't get to that point while reading.

I don't want to see actors being rewarded for what they didn't deserve either. You mentioned that the nominations are to be based on merit. What merit did you see in the past when someone like Sandra Bullock or Julia Roberts won best actress Oscars? The Oscars are more political than some other awards; they are not based purely on merit.
 
smurfy said:
Yes politics - one needs to get on Harvey Weinsteins' good side.

I did see both Concussion and Creed. Michael B Jordan was way better than Smith. Not saying he deserved a nod, as I have not see all the other noms, but a Jordan would be more worthy to me. One of the young actors from 'Straight Outta Compton' would not have suprised me with a nom.
I have not seen Beasts of No Nation - but have heard good things about Idris Elba (and anything I have seen him in - he is amazing, way better actor than Smith). But isn't it a netflix movie or some other controversy around it?
Can't think of others right now. But every year there are always the 'snubbed' list in various publications.
This is creating dialogue and hopefully will result in forward movement.
If one black actor/actress was nominated this year - this conversation would most likely not be happening, and change might be slower. Trying to be optimistic, but change is slow.
Click to expand...

I am considering seeing Creed, but if it's a boxing movie, I may not see it. I am sick and tired of movies about boxing and boxers (though there have been some good ones in the past). I am wondering if Silvestor Stallone really deserved his nomination (particularly over Jacob in 'Room') or is it going to be just a lifetime achievement type Oscar for him? He did win other awards, so may be he is deserving. I won't know unless I see the movie, but if they are just going to show boxing matches and people being bloodied, I would rather not see it.

I would have seen Beasts of No Nation because of its SAG nominations. I don't know what politics are involved where Netflix is concerned, and yes, it is a Netflix movie. I am not sure if it means one can only see it on DVD and not in theatres?

We as a nation have refrained from having open dialogues about controversial issues, particularly the race issue. IMO the first step is to open a dialogue, and go from there. Not everyone is going to be right when they protest against something, but more discussions can move us in the right direction.

As a side note, I would like to see the Oscar broadening the nominations and/or categories in major awards (e.g. 6 or 7 nominations for best actor/actress, supporting roles). They did it for Best picture, so why not for a few others? One thing that I don't want to see is a token black actor or actress being nominated, just to stop the dialogue.

I wouldn't mind a 'young actor' or 'comedy' category (as long as it is truly a comedy; not like seeing 'Martian' and 'Joy' in the Comedy category). In a certain year they may even omit that category if they cannot find at least 3 deserving candidates. Just a few ideas.
 
Michael Caine has weighed in:
“There’s loads of black actors. In the end you can't vote for an actor because he's black," he said. "You can't say, 'I'm going to vote for him, he's not very good, but he's black, I'll vote for him.'"

Caine cited Idris Elba's starring turn in Beasts of No Nation as a performance that deserved recognition. "Did he not get nominated?" he asked the host. "Well, look at me. I won [Best Actor at the European Film Awards] and I got nominated for nothing else."

"Be patient. Of course it will come. It took me years to get an Oscar, years.”
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...-should-be-patient-oscars-diversity/79169228/
 
Charlotte Rampling's eloquent words:

Q. This year the Oscars are beset by polemics: No black actor or actress in the selection for the second year in a row. Do you understand the anger of, for instance, Spike Lee, who called for a boycott of the ceremony?

A. No. I find that goes in the other direction: it’s racist against whites.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/m...cars-furor-is-racist-against-whites.html?_r=0

I hate it when celebs I admire disappoint me. Like when Emma Thompson and Natalie Portman signed that Roman Polanski petition.
 
I think their comments are useful because to me it reminds me why so many POCs become resigned and give up when trying to state their point-of-view. It also is a great illustration of people speaking when it's clear they don't have the same life experience, perspective, or understanding of the position many who are speaking out have. Not saying the people speaking out are right, but I think the privilege and sort of tone deafness with the above two actors' comments is pretty glaring and they are statements repeatedly echoed in reaction to the criticisms.
 
Vash - Re - Creed. I really like Michael B Jordan and his love interest played by Tessa Thompson. Stallone was very good, I have not seen all the nominees, but so far ok with his nom.
If you saw the original and enjoyed the story - go see it. There is boxing, but in any good sport movie, there is an important story that shines through.
I am not a boxing fan at all, but the boxing scenes - to me - were very good, I enjoyed the choreography of them.
I had posted earlier about Creed - in the same day I saw the movie, I watched an episode of the new Hawaii50 - and there was boxing in it (just a concidence)- and it made me appreciate what was done in Creed so much, the show was bad.
 
Black people in Hollywood are NOT poor and it's condescending and inherently racist to think otherwise. Great actors of any race and colour emerge and get rewarded for great performances.

So far in this thread, I could only see 'Selma' being used as a serious example of a snub, but... I just think it was bad timing because it came out straight after '12 Years a Slave' won all the awards and recognition and it was on the same topic and too similar (although infinitely better imo) to get rewarded. Anyway, 'Selma' is a great film, but not exactly SO amazing that it couldn't have been lost among many other good films.

I can't remember any outcry when Lupita completely undeservedly won her Oscar for '12 Years a Slave'. Now THAT was a joke.
 
Vash01 said:
I don't want to see actors being rewarded for what they didn't deserve either. You mentioned that the nominations are to be based on merit. What merit did you see in the past when someone like Sandra Bullock or Julia Roberts won best actress Oscars? The Oscars are more political than some other awards; they are not based purely on merit.
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In both cases, none whatsoever.

So far in this thread, I could only see 'Selma' being used as a serious example of a snub, but... I just think it was bad timing because it came out straight after '12 Years a Slave' won all the awards and recognition and it was on the same topic and too similar (although infinitely better imo) to get rewarded. Anyway, 'Selma' is a great film, but not exactly SO amazing that it couldn't have been lost among many other good films.
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I didn't see Selma, but heard it was very good. 12 Years a Slave was not that good and way over-hyped IMO.
 
Y ? Why that ciritque on her ? She is absolutely right. If we assume everyone is equal, no matter skin color ( for me it is) then oscars are nominated for good acting, not for skin color. And what the other side says is that those people are getting nominated only because they are white.
So is she right or is she not ? :cool: For me she is right.
 
Japanfan said:
I didn't see Selma, but heard it was very good. 12 Years a Slave was not that good and way over-hyped IMO.
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I saw both films. IMO, "12 Years a Slave" was a much better movie with significantly better acting. And I think both the movie and the acting categories were particularly strong last year. I don't think Selma or its actors were robbed. I do think "Glory" deserved its win for best song.

I haven't seen Concussion. I also haven't seen The Revenant. I don't know who deserves which nominations. (Though I do think that it's not a coincidence that the Smiths chose this year to boycott and that there's some self-interest involved with their decision, which unfortunately affects the way that some people respond to the call for a boycott and to complaints about racism affecting the nominees.)

But, I do think that, if the Academy membership does not include a diverse group of people from the industry (whether it's race, different socio-economic backgrounds, gender, etc), that may very well affect the nominations and wins.

Ultimately, though, I think the bigger problem is that there aren't nearly as many good roles created for or given to women and actors of color.
 
Artemis@BC said:
Ford is best known for his action hero movies, but he's had quite the range of non-action roles, perhaps even more than Cruise has. In addition to the ones you list, I also loved him in Working Girl (romcom is so under-rated, but a lesser actor would have butchered that), Regarding Henry, Sabrina (not a great remake but he was fabulous), and of course Witness.
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Ford's part was written as an immensely successful businessman, but Ford insisted that it be changed to a man who had a failure and needed a big win to reestablish himself.


screech said:
Morgan Freeman was cast as Red in the Shawshank Redemption. In the book, Red is a middle-aged Irishman with graying red hair. Despite this description, apparently they always wanted him for the role.

I know that this is definitely against the norm, though.
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Similarly in an ensemble role, Courtney Vance's character in The Hunt for Red October was a laid-back blond guy in the book.
 
handomi said:
Y ? Why that ciritque on her ? She is absolutely right. If we assume everyone is equal, no matter skin color ( for me it is) then oscars are nominated for good acting, not for skin color. And what the other side says is that those people are getting nominated only because they are white.
So is she right or is she not ? :cool: For me she is right.
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She is not right because she is not seeing things that are real. When there is discrimination against minority, the other side cannot claim discrimination; they are the beneficiaries.

Certainly any award- not just Oscars- is to be given on merit, but when there are other factors involved, it doesn't remain purely merit. It's only in recent years that women have started getting important roles; up till now those were the exceptions. It does help that there are separate categories for male and female actors. The black population in the USA is pretty large but we don't see that reflected in the number of really strong roles for them. Occasionally you do see a minority honored for outstanding work, but it is usually an exception rather than the rule.

The last thing I want to see is a nomination for a token black actor or actress. However, our history of racism is notoriously well known, and progress is needed in many areas, including the entertainment business.

I am fine with Will Smith not getting a nomination for 'Concussion'. I didn't feel he deserved one for that role.He was OK to good in a few scenes, but not really great. I liked the movie and perhaps it deserved a BP nomination. It addressed a very important problem and presented it well, IMO. It made an impact. When there is a borderline case, the minorities usually don't get it. It has to be a slam dunk for them, like e.g. Forest Whitaker in The Last King of Scotland (just an example).
 
One thing that gets me is that all the outcry is over the Oscars. This year there is one black film acting nominee (Idris) at the SAG awards, but last year there was not a single one. There was no outcry (that I recall) over that one, and the SAG are considered almost as prestigious as the Oscars, because they are chosen by the other actors (and it is actors who nominate other actors for the Oscars - the nominees are chosen by people in their category, i.e. the actors nominate actors, then every voting member of the Academy, in any category, votes on the winners). Where was the controversy there last year?
 
screech said:
One thing that gets me is that all the outcry is over the Oscars. This year there is one black film acting nominee (Idris) at the SAG awards, but last year there was not a single one. There was no outcry (that I recall) over that one, and the SAG are considered almost as prestigious as the Oscars, because they are chosen by the other actors (and it is actors who nominate other actors for the Oscars - the nominees are chosen by people in their category, i.e. the actors nominate actors, then every voting member of the Academy, in any category, votes on the winners). Where was the controversy there last year?
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There is no rule that there must be a minority actor or actress among the nominees, so when it happens once it can be considered normal. When it happens two years in a row, it points to a systemic problem. It doesn't always mean the actors were nominated because they are black, but rather they were either ignored while assigning the roles or during the voting. The bottomline is there could be a problem here and we need to look at it instead of pretending that it doesn't exist.

I find it surprising at times that people that have never experienced discrimination, and/or belong to the privileged group/majority/other, have difficulty understanding those who are being discriminated against. They vehemently deny it because they have never experienced it. When a minority (including all of its variations) moves up against the odds, some of them feel discriminated against. It takes understanding (not sympathy) of what is going on. I am not black, but as a woman in a man's field I have experienced plenty of discrimination. If I were a white male, I may still notice discrimination against a black person or a gay or a woman. Unfortunately those are very small in numbers, but those who have that understanding, work toward removing the barriers rather than complaining that they themselves are being discriminated against.
 
screech said:
One thing that gets me is that all the outcry is over the Oscars. This year there is one black film acting nominee (Idris) at the SAG awards, but last year there was not a single one. There was no outcry (that I recall) over that one, and the SAG are considered almost as prestigious as the Oscars, because they are chosen by the other actors (and it is actors who nominate other actors for the Oscars - the nominees are chosen by people in their category, i.e. the actors nominate actors, then every voting member of the Academy, in any category, votes on the winners). Where was the controversy there last year?
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There was controversy and tagline Oscar so white was used a lot. What we see this year is angry getting amplified.

I am not sure whether academy being too white friendly is the reason for the lack of diversity. The fact is there are no great roles for people of colour if there are it is limited to say one out of fifteen good acting roles. When it comes to the nomination is hard to get the nomination with that kind of odds. If it was say four roles out of 15 then chances of getting a nomination gets better for people of colour.
Now, what I think is the real issue. I believe studios are very happy changing the parts that could be played by non-white actors as a white-acting role. This whitewashing is possible the reason for low Oscar nomination for non-white actors. One example I can think of is the Prince of Persia movie; studios decided to cast Jake Gyllenhaal as the Prince???. Exodus is another film with a similar issue; I would not even go to post Rupert Murdoch's response to the criticism.

This kind of whitewashing has persisted through the history, hello how many times have we seen Jesus with white skin and blue eyes. The problem is a much deeper issue than just nominations. And I have to say the problem is not just limited to Hollywood alone. In India, when movies are made in my language, I see a lot of Christain and Muslim roles; my state has nearly 50% of the population belong to the minority community. However, when the same movie is remade in another language in India (India is linguistically divided into states), where the minority population is less than 15% all the parts are changed to Hindu characters.
 
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Domshabfan said:
There was controversy and tagline Oscar so white was used a lot. What we see this year is angry getting amplified.
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My comment had been that there is no controversy over lack of diversity when it comes to other awards shows, namely the very prestigious SAG awards. It's all Oscar focus.
 
I think it's because the Oscars are super symbolic. It's really being used to highlight the bigger problem. If anything, this shows the Oscars are still really relevant. It must be a relief to a lot of people who are fearing the Oscars are losing their cache. That said, if this sort of thing keeps up for years, they really have a real danger of losing relevancy.
 
Love the discussion here - so many things to think about.
Wow about Rampling.
And with so much discussion about the controversy - probably won't happen - but I would love it to get more people to go see more of the nominated movies and not just blockbusters. Obviously I love movies and go to see many, as many in this group do - I am always amused by friends that hardly go to the movies, watch the oscars and say they never heard of the films and have no interest in seeing anything nonHollywood Blockbuster or foreign.
Hope the ratings are good for the Oscars. And I hope Chris Rock does/say something memorable. He has a great platform.

I just saw 'The Danish' Girl' - what an amazing movie. Why didn't it get BP nom? Alicia Vikander is the lead - again wtf with supporting actress. She was excellent and should be best actress, not supporting. And what a year - with Testament of Youth and Ex Machina. Supporting actress category is very competitive - I have seen 3 (Vikander, Rooney and Winslett) - and any of them winning is deserving. Nothing against Blanchett and JLaw - but they both have an oscar or two, I wish they were not nominated and Rooney and Vikander had their slots.
Eddie R was very good, a very brave performance. He is deserving of his oscar nom. But I just want someone else to win, since he already has one.
The Danish Girl is such a lovely love story, the cinematography was gorgeous. Matthias Schoennarts - gorgeous man.
Tom Hooper also did Les Miserables - and one of my complaints with the movie was all the closeups - the story calls for beautiful panoramic shots. The Danish Girl had many panoramic shots that were just wonderful to see. Too bad it was not nom for cinematography.

AMC Theatre near me has a 2 day Best Picture Showcase of the BP Nominees. I have seen 3 of the 8 - and will see all at AMC later in Feb. Only have to see 'The Hateful Eight' - in order to make sure I see all the nominated actors/actresses before the Oscars.
 
smurfy said:
Love the discussion here - so many things to think about.
Wow about Rampling.
And with so much discussion about the controversy - probably won't happen - but I would love it to get more people to go see more of the nominated movies and not just blockbusters. Obviously I love movies and go to see many, as many in this group do - I am always amused by friends that hardly go to the movies, watch the oscars and say they never heard of the films and have no interest in seeing anything nonHollywood Blockbuster or foreign.
Hope the ratings are good for the Oscars. And I hope Chris Rock does/say something memorable. He has a great platform.

I just saw 'The Danish' Girl' - what an amazing movie. Why didn't it get BP nom? Alicia Vikander is the lead - again wtf with supporting actress. She was excellent and should be best actress, not supporting. And what a year - with Testament of Youth and Ex Machina. Supporting actress category is very competitive - I have seen 3 (Vikander, Rooney and Winslett) - and any of them winning is deserving. Nothing against Blanchett and JLaw - but they both have an oscar or two, I wish they were not nominated and Rooney and Vikander had their slots.
Eddie R was very good, a very brave performance. He is deserving of his oscar nom. But I just want someone else to win, since he already has one.
The Danish Girl is such a lovely love story, the cinematography was gorgeous. Matthias Schoennarts - gorgeous man.
Tom Hooper also did Les Miserables - and one of my complaints with the movie was all the closeups - the story calls for beautiful panoramic shots. The Danish Girl had many panoramic shots that were just wonderful to see. Too bad it was not nom for cinematography.

AMC Theatre near me has a 2 day Best Picture Showcase of the BP Nominees. I have seen 3 of the 8 - and will see all at AMC later in Feb. Only have to see 'The Hateful Eight' - in order to make sure I see all the nominated actors/actresses before the Oscars.
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ITA on everything you wrote. Regarding Mara and Vikander's 'supporting actress' nominations I want the Academy to take a strong stance against such cheating studios that undersell their actors. It's unfair to everyone. Two truly supporting actresses were robbed. Two leading actresses (Mara and Vikander) were robbed of the opportunity to win the best actress award which is more prestigious. Why such favoritism toward Blanchett? She already has two Oscars and I don't see her winning the third for 'Carol'. The academy loves Jen Lawrence but it would have been ok if she didn't make the nominations list this time.

I was very disappointed that the Danish girl didn't get a BP nomination. That movie made me cry, and not many movies do that to me. Vikander should have won the Best Lead Actress Oscar. I think it's almost criminal that the beautiful cinematography of that movie didn't get any nominations - not even. Golden Globe one.

I am not going to see the Hateful 8 and The Revenant. I don't go to movies to torture myself - LOL.I am curious as to what you think of Room. Just a hint : I loved it. :)
 
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screech said:
My comment had been that there is no controversy over lack of diversity when it comes to other awards shows, namely the very prestigious SAG awards. It's all Oscar focus.
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SAG is prestigious but no way near Oscars. Internationally you can see way more coverage for Oscar nomination and awards, SAG is mentioned just in passing. On a personal note, I would just look at SAG winners, Oscar I would try to watch it if possible.
 
manhn said:
Charlotte Rampling's eloquent words:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/m...cars-furor-is-racist-against-whites.html?_r=0

I hate it when celebs I admire disappoint me. Like when Emma Thompson and Natalie Portman signed that Roman Polanski petition.
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:wuzrobbed Horrible all around. :(

Xela M said:
So far in this thread, I could only see 'Selma' being used as a serious example of a snub, but... I just think it was bad timing because it came out straight after '12 Years a Slave' won all the awards and recognition and it was on the same topic and too similar (although infinitely better imo) to get rewarded.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen Selma yet, so I could be wrong, but isn't it about MLK and a civil rights march that took place in 1965? How can that be the same topic as a slavery experience in the 1800s?
 
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