What I learned from Kristi Yamaguchi (NYT)

[MsZem]

I think the point is the value of seeing someone like yourself make it. If folks cannot appreciate that skating is a VERY white sport and seeing someone of a different color achieve so much is significant to a minority little girl, gosh, can't help you.

Just because someone had some privileges that other white folks didn't doesn't mean there weren't barriers to overcome. To assume there were none is naive.

Exactly - and of course, a young girl who looked up to Kristi Yamaguchi as a role model certainly wouldn't have known about the economic situation of her parents (whatever it was). What matters is that she had found an inspiration and a role model whom she personally could look up to.

Skating is a more diverse sport than it used to be, and I think the successful and inspiring role played by Kristi Yamaguchi (as well as others) has definitely contributed to that. Which is good for skating, skaters, and fans.

 

[cheremary]

There are so many *other*, more legitimate things for which Yamaguchi deserves praise -- her work ethic, professionalism, etc. That doesn't mean that I want to erase Yamaguchi's ethnic heritage.... it just seems totally irrelevant to her own achievements. They'd be just as admirable in a person of any other color, including purple with green polka dots.

I think the very things you're arguing for are implicitly assumed by the author. If Kristi's work ethic and accomplishments weren't admirable to begin with, the author would've never looked up to her in the first place, whether she was purple or green.

As others have said, the point of the piece was to highlight that the author as an Asian American had someone who looked like her as a role model. Without that angle, the piece would simply be "my childhood hero was Kristi because she was a great skater." Nothing wrong with that, but also not very interesting and probably never would've been published.

 

[gkelly]

The article is not about Kristi Yamaguchi. It's about the author's experiences.

Its point is certainly not to pass value judgments on Yamaguchi as a person or an athlete or a role model.
But rather to discuss the value for Asian-American members of the public to see representations of prominent Asian Americans.

For this author, Yamaguchi happened to be the most important. But she's serving here as an example.

 

[kwanfan1818]

who were interned in concentration camps in the US (let's not pretty it up by calling her mother's experience anything but that)

They were for the most part concentration camps: FDR called them that in two speeches, until he was advised otherwise. Internment is the correct term for non-citizens, and the majority of people with Japanese ancestry who were sent to camps in the US were citizens. Others would have been citizens had there not been racist laws prevention them from becoming citizens.

A concentration camp may not have been a death camp, but Japanese Americans sent to camps were sent to concentration camps.

And to think that living a comfortable upper middle class life means not having to overcome direct racism and/or the impacts of familial trauma is naive, IMO.

 

[Vagabond]

But what does her ethnicity really have to do with why Yamaguchi is a good role model? If Yamaguchi were purple with green polka dots, would make that her any less of a good role model?

I hate the term "role model." But if you try using the word "inspiration" instead, perhaps you can see why her ethnicity matters.

People are more likely to be inspired if they see someone like them succeeding at something.

For many Jewish boys of a certain era, Hank Greenberg was more of an inspiration than any other baseball player of that period could ever have been.

For many American girls of a certain era, Sally Ride was more of an inspiration than any other astronaut of that period could ever have been.

For many Asian-American girls (and especially Japanese-American girls) of a certain era, Kirsti Yamaguchi was more of an inspiration than skaters like Nancy Kerrigan or, for that matter, Midori Ito could ever have been.

Perhaps it should be otherwise, but it isn't. :shrug:

 

[BittyBug]

Since this thread has taken a different direction, here is a NY Times clip that is part of their conversations about race series. This one features Asian-Americans sharing their experiences.

http://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000004308529/a-conversation-with-asians-on-race.html

 

[skategal]

The article is not about Kristi Yamaguchi. It's about the author's experiences.

Its point is certainly not to pass value judgments on Yamaguchi as a person or an athlete or a role model.
But rather to discuss the value for Asian-American members of the public to see representations of prominent Asian Americans.

For this author, Yamaguchi happened to be the most important. But she's serving here as an example.

Yes this x 1000!

When you are a POC raised without racial mirrors, especially in ones in your own family, as the author says she was, it is a very isolating experience.

Everyone needs to see people who look like them achieve great things so that they too can have a positive self-image and confidence.

The article is not really about Yamaguchi at all.

 

[dr.frog]

Everyone needs to see people who look like them achieve great things so that they too can have a positive self-image and confidence.

Talk about over-generalizations! Of course people -- *lots* of people -- grow up without seeing examples of others who look like them achieve things in their chosen careers. Somebody brought up Sally Ride earlier in the thread; *she* grew up to be a successful astronaut and clearly did not have or require the example of another woman in that career to have a positive self-image and confidence in her ability to do the job. Being a child of the 1960s, of course I wanted to be an astronaut when I grew up too, and it never occurred to me that I could not do so until the adults in my life (parents, teachers, etc) started a litany of "you can't do that because you're a FROG", which only made me more determined to show that yes, I *could* do that. I certainly had no role models either, nor did I need any. (Ultimately, I realized that being an astronaut was not really much fun as a job, and moved on to other career goals, but I never doubted that I could be anything I wanted to when I grew up.)

Of course I realize that the NYT article is about the author's experiences and that she was 9 years old at the time. But she's now a grown woman, and could have taken a more introspective approach; e.g., what qualities did Yamaguchi have that enabled her to be standing on the top step of the podium with everybody cheering for her? If it were not for the content of her character, she would not have been there at all for people to take note of the color of her skin! Yet all the NYT author apparently cares about is the most superficial aspect.

 

[kittyjake5]

Great read! Thank you for sharing.

 

[VGThuy]

Great read! Thank you for sharing.

It really was wonderful to hear someone put into words what I felt growing up, more-or-less. I'm happy the NYT and other mainstream media have been publishing more race-conscious pieces and allowing people like the author a broad avenue to express these feelings that hit home for many Americans rather than pretending that these genuine feelings are nothing or not worth paying attention to. Oftentimes these stories are not given much attention or people self-censor themselves because they're afraid of reactions from those who choose not to get it.

 

[overedge]

Of course I realize that the NYT article is about the author's experiences and that she was 9 years old at the time. But she's now a grown woman, and could have taken a more introspective approach; e.g., what qualities did Yamaguchi have that enabled her to be standing on the top step of the podium with everybody cheering for her? If it were not for the content of her character, she would not have been there at all for people to take note of the color of her skin! Yet all the NYT author apparently cares about is the most superficial aspect.

It might be superficial to you, but it's obviously not superficial to her. Knowing that there are people "like you" - whether the "like" is gender, ethnicity, hair color, height, whatever - and that they are successful can be very powerful for a young person.

This article made me think about a display I saw a few years ago of the Supremes' stage costumes. There was a quote in the display, from Andre Leon Talley (fashionista and former columnist at Vogue), saying that when he was a child in Mississippi, the Supremes on TV in their wonderful outfits were the only black women he saw who looked rich and glamorous. But even though they were the only ones, that showed him that there were possibilities for black people that he otherwise wouldn't have even known about. My experiences growing up are completely different from his, but I wouldn't say that his perspective is superficial just because it isn't mine.

 

[Simone411]

I loved this article a lot. Thank you so much for sharing it, @PRlady It's appreciated.

Just wanted to add that my grandfather whom I never had the pleasure of knowing came here to the US in the early 1900's. He was 18 at the time. He came from Syria where there was war going on. He came with a cousin.

My dad was half Syrian and had the same olive complexion as I have. When he went to school, he was called several different names including camel jockey, raghead ... and another name I won't say.

When my dad served in the Korean war, he and another marine went out into a mine field to rescue their sergeant. The sergeant's leg was blown off in that mine field, and no one else would go get him.

The sergeant just so happened to be one of those kids in high school that called my dad all those names. Needless to say, the sergeant and my dad became the best of friends after they came back from the Korean war. That same sergeant asked my dad to forgive him for all the name calling.

Things changed a lot when I went to school. That didn't happen to me. But I can just imagine how my dad must have felt whenever people called him that. You see, my dad's mother had Irish, English and Welsh in her. Her great great grandfather came from England on ship.

 

[VGThuy]

This article made me think about a display I saw a few years ago of the Supremes' stage costumes. There was a quote in the display, from Andre Leon Talley (fashionista and former columnist at Vogue), saying that when he was a child in Mississippi, the Supremes on TV in their wonderful outfits were the only black women he saw who looked rich and glamorous. But even though they were the only ones, that showed him that there were possibilities for black people that he otherwise wouldn't have even known about. My experiences growing up are completely different from his, but I wouldn't say that his perspective is superficial just because it isn't mine.

That's an absolutely beautiful story. Thanks for sharing that with us. I'm going to look up Andre Leon Talley later.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

To dr. frog:

Perhaps you haven't seen or heard Whoopi Goldberg state how inspiring and astonishing it was for her as a child to see Nichelle Nichols playing Lt. Uhura in the original Star Trek series - to see a woman of color have a valued role as an officer and scientific specialist on a starship.

Perhaps you haven't seen or heard Nichelle Nichols herself tell the story of how Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. persuaded her, when she was thinking of leaving the Star Trek series early on, that her continued presence on the show as Lt. Uhura was extremely important to give young people of color hope in seeing a future where their contributions were valued and rewarded and where people like them were part of a peaceful, productive future, working as respected members of a team along with others of diverse backgrounds.

Perhaps you haven't read of how African-Americans crowded around radios to listen to the play-by-play of Joe Louis's fights, because he was such a symbol of hope and pride for them during his career in the first half of the 20th century.

Not having known about at least one of these examples of motivation MIGHT just help me understand why you are so dismissive of the author's comments - but, in the end, I get the feeling that you would not value those examples any more than the contents of the article.

 

[PRlady]

It might be superficial to you, but it's obviously not superficial to her. Knowing that there are people "like you" - whether the "like" is gender, ethnicity, hair color, height, whatever - and that they are successful can be very powerful for a young person.

This article made me think about a display I saw a few years ago of the Supremes' stage costumes. There was a quote in the display, from Andre Leon Talley (fashionista and former columnist at Vogue), saying that when he was a child in Mississippi, the Supremes on TV in their wonderful outfits were the only black women he saw who looked rich and glamorous. But even though they were the only ones, that showed him that there were possibilities for black people that he otherwise wouldn't have even known about. My experiences growing up are completely different from his, but I wouldn't say that his perspective is superficial just because it isn't mine.

I love that story too. And I think back to being a child in the '60s, the one black woman I knew was the teenaged "mother's helper" my mom had to help as a babysitter and housecleaner, and seeing Diana Ross and her sisters in those sequins and wigs! They were so glamorous! It helped ME realize that not all black people were poor and living in North Philadelphia. When I found out that they had, in fact, grown up in a Detroit ghetto, it was a good lesson that some people can break through the barriers of race, gender and class.

And by the way, even though my own family (at that point) and most of the Jews I knew were safely middle-class, I also grew up knowing what had happened in Europe only 20 years earlier. Barbra Streisand -- my parents were so proud of her and made a point of telling me she didn't fix her nose. Leonard Bernstein was an idol in my house.

This is all by way of saying that it is not racist or ethnocentric, if you are a minority, to take pride in the accomplishments of your fellow whatevers and feel safer and more accepted because of their fame and general success, as everyone else here has posted.

 

[Prancer]

But she's now a grown woman, and could have taken a more introspective approach; e.g., what qualities did Yamaguchi have that enabled her to be standing on the top step of the podium with everybody cheering for her? If it were not for the content of her character, she would not have been there at all for people to take note of the color of her skin! Yet all the NYT author apparently cares about is the most superficial aspect.

It's the most superficial aspect to you; it's obviously important to the author, who was writing about her experiences and impressions.

 

[Coco]

And here I was thinking that the dream was that people should be judged by the content of their character instead of by the color of their skin....

I've always thought you were smart. So I have to ask if you are trolling people or do you genuinely not get it?

The author of the piece is not judging Kristi by the color of her skin, she's saying how meaningful Kristi's accomplishments were to her because they were the same "color."

Do you not see the distinction between A) people not judging others by the color of their skin, and B) non-whites being allowed to take pride in the barrier breaking achievements by people who look like them?

Or do you get this distinction but resent how non-whites are "allowed" to acknowledge someone's color and let it factor into their opinions of others?

 

[skatesindreams]

Thanks to all who have shared their stories in this thread.
They are enlightening and important.

 

[once_upon]

For me, the words in this article that say why it was important to see Kristi success: the author was adopted and her community was of Caucasian decent. The "seeing someone like me who was doing something I thought only..." really was a huge part of the experience.

As I read it, it's not about not being able to do something, it's about someone doing something you hadn't thought you could. The mind can be self limiting when you don't see others like you succeeding at something.

JMO

 

[Aerobicidal]

It might be superficial to you, but it's obviously not superficial to her. Knowing that there are people "like you" - whether the "like" is gender, ethnicity, hair color, height, whatever - and that they are successful can be very powerful for a young person.

I agree with this (and I like the Andre Leon Talley example) but I'd go even further and say that it's good for everyone if the media can include previously underrepresented people in numerous and--especially--diverse ways.

This is why I think anti-assimilationist politics are so important. When I was younger, I felt pressure to act gay in the same way guys were gay on TV: fabulous, every girl's dream best friend, lover of diva vocalists, desexualized, etc. Even though we see more heterogeneous--and I use that word advisedly--representations of gay men in today's media, I still think there's a risk of creating a binary between the "safe" (perhaps most clearly exemplified by Neil Patrick Harris) and the "abnormal/dangerous" (like Johnny Weir).

ETA: I am not saying that Johnny Weir is either abnormal or dangerous, but instead criticizing the use of those terms to police identity. For example, I think Weir gets a lot of vitriol from both straight and queer people for being seen as "too gay," whereas I find that extremely problematic and would never say anyone is too gay, too straight, not gay enough, or not straight enough.

I wish we could transcend normal versus abnormal and safe versus dangerous and just accept that queer people can act like and do anything, but that entails defeating pressures to assimilate, which often come from within the queer community.

Moving back to the article, I think the author makes a closely related point really well. It would be pretty depressing to conclude something like, "We've moved all the way from viewing Asian-Americans as subversive Others who need to be monitored and possibly incarcerated to--70 years later--a wonderful society with three Asian-American A-list celebrities and a widespread belief that all Asians are book-smart and docile!"

So I guess my opinion is that visibility is an important first step, not only to inspire people who are also Asian (or queer or whatever) but to make everyone realize that people deserve to be treated ethically and as individuals rather than stereotypes regardless of their race, ethnicity, sexuality, gender, etc. If having multiple and diverse representations in the media can actually help go from invisibility to visibility to transcending stereotypes and binaries--and I think it can, but doesn't always have that effect--then the implications are far from superficial, and indeed related to the content of our characters pretty substantially.

 

[PRlady]

(whole thoughtful and interesting post)

I am suddenly feeling dumber than a rock for teasing my gay male friend for not liking figure skating.

 

[once_upon]

I am suddenly feeling dumber than a rock for teasing my gay male friend for not liking figure skating.

And for me this is a reason for people to see role models and to relate to others why it was important to them. Stereotypes need to be broken.

I can only know different if I am shown different than what my mind has limited.

 

[dr.frog]

I've always thought you were smart. So I have to ask if you are trolling people or do you genuinely not get it?

I am not a troll. I have always believed that the content of people's character is what counts, not the color of their skin. I am not fixated on my own external appearance, I do not pick and choose my friends by their race or ethnic background, and in my colleagues and professional circle I'm only concerned with people's competence and ability to be good co-workers (reliable, easy to work with, good communicators, helpful, willing to do their share of the grunt work without complaining, that sort of thing).

The author of the piece is not judging Kristi by the color of her skin, she's saying how meaningful Kristi's accomplishments were to her because they were the same "color."

How is that not judging Kristi by her color? The clear implication is that her accomplishments would *not* have been meaningful to the writer if Kristi were a different color. It was the *color* that was meaningful, not the accomplishments, nor Kristi's work ethic or other qualities of character that made it possible for her to have such a successful career.

Do you not see the distinction between A) people not judging others by the color of their skin, and B) non-whites being allowed to take pride in the barrier breaking achievements by people who look like them?

There is no distinction here. The (B) case is people judging others by the color of their skin -- even if it happens to be the same color as their own. And why should only non-whites be allowed (B)? That's clearly racist all by itself. I mean, poor Hitler, not allowed to take pride in Sonja Henie's accomplishments as a role model of Aryan womanhood....

 

[meggonzo]

How is that not judging Kristi by her color? The clear implication is that her accomplishments would *not* have been meaningful to the writer if Kristi were a different color. It was the *color* that was meaningful, not the accomplishments, nor Kristi's work ethic or other qualities of character that made it possible for her to have such a successful career.

It was BOTH the color and the accomplishments.

 

[VGThuy]

I agree with this (and I like the Andre Leon Talley example) but I'd go even further and say that it's good for everyone if the media can include previously underrepresented people in numerous and--especially--diverse ways.

This is why I think anti-assimilationist politics are so important. When I was younger, I felt pressure to act gay in the same way guys were gay on TV: fabulous, every girl's dream best friend, lover of diva vocalists, desexualized, etc. Even though we see more heterogeneous--and I use that word advisedly--representations of gay men in today's media, I still think there's a risk of creating a binary between the "safe" (perhaps most clearly exemplified by Neil Patrick Harris) and the "abnormal/dangerous" (like Johnny Weir).

ETA: I am not saying that Johnny Weir is either abnormal or dangerous, but instead criticizing the use of those terms to police identity. For example, I think Weir gets a lot of vitriol from both straight and queer people for being seen as "too gay," whereas I find that extremely problematic and would never say anyone is too gay, too straight, not gay enough, or not straight enough.

I wish we could transcend normal versus abnormal and safe versus dangerous and just accept that queer people can act like and do anything, but that entails defeating pressures to assimilate, which often come from within the queer community.

Moving back to the article, I think the author makes a closely related point really well. It would be pretty depressing to conclude something like, "We've moved all the way from viewing Asian-Americans as subversive Others who need to be monitored and possibly incarcerated to--70 years later--a wonderful society with three Asian-American A-list celebrities and a widespread belief that all Asians are book-smart and docile!"

So I guess my opinion is that visibility is an important first step, not only to inspire people who are also Asian (or queer or whatever) but to make everyone realize that people deserve to be treated ethically and as individuals rather than stereotypes regardless of their race, ethnicity, sexuality, gender, etc. If having multiple and diverse representations in the media can actually help go from invisibility to visibility to transcending stereotypes and binaries--and I think it can, but doesn't always have that effect--then the implications are far from superficial, and indeed related to the content of our characters pretty substantially.

Bravo!

 

[TheGirlCanSkate]

SOme of this conversation reminds me of my daughter in kindergarten. Her teacher kept saying she looked exactly like Michelle Kwan. My daughter would argue," I don't look like Michelle Kwan". Her teacher would say, I mean you skate like Michelle Kwan" and my daughter would respond, "No, I jump like Tonya Harding!" She asked why her teacher thought she looked like Michelle and I'd told her the truth- because her teacher couldn't see beyond the fact she has dark hair and eyes and is Asian. That her teacher thinks all Asians look alike and Michelle is the only Asian skater they know of - that her teacher doesn't know how to LOOK and see anything.

Kristie is inspirational and she continues to inspire. She lit up the ice.

 

[Prancer]

And why should only non-whites be allowed (B)?

Whites can certainly take pride in seeing barriers broken by people who look like them. History is full of that very thing, is it not? It's just that it never occurred to anyone to be proud of it because it was so common. Not sure what barriers there are for people who look like you to break, but you said earlier that you didn't care about such things anyway.

There is a difference between being happy to see someone of your race succeed where no one of your race has succeeded before and being happy to see someone who looks like you succeed because that person is Aryan and represents your concept of a superior race--but you are an intelligent person and surely realized this before you tossed Hitler into the mix.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

Well, if nothing else, the posts in this thread and certain responses in it have finally provided me with what I take as a specific example of someone being having a viewpoint so filtered through white privilege that what is quite apparent to numerous others, and explained with specific examples, is not passing through that filter.

With that, I want to THANK you, dr. frog, for the lesson.

 

[gk_891]

Years ago, I remember studying poems by Langston Hughes who was a key figure from the Harlem Renaissance. One of my favourite poems by Hughes is My People which is basically a poetic assertion that African Americans are beautiful (to counter general claims that they aren't due to centuries of being unfairly stigmatized as ugly, scary, etc).

On a similar note, the author of this piece seems to be more or less saying that she took to Yamaguchi greatly because she saw a fellow Asian-American who was beautiful and successful which I'm sure was a breakthrough in some ways since Asian Americans aren't often portrayed as such. It's taking pride in someone who broke through barriers to show that they too can be equally as worthy (not to justify racist concepts of superiority like Hitler did with Henie).

ETA - sorry if my Hughes example doesn't quite fit but it was something that came to mind for me while reading this thread

 

[meggonzo]

With that, I want to THANK you, dr. frog, for the lesson.

I think you mean "Bless your Heart".