Unpopular Opinions

[DreamSkates]

I feel like seeing all the cartwheels in programs now... it's an accident waiting to happen

Ha like why people are excited to watch a hoard of cars zooming around in circles for a hundred miles. Just waiting for the accidents to happen. Otherwise it would be rather boring until the last lap to see who survives to cross the finish line.

 

[DreamSkates]

Not sure if this is an unpopular one, but I much preferred Jason's initial version of his Sinnerman SP than the one he performed this season. I felt the choreographic changes he made to it this season (e.g., taking out the wally jump before the flip, putting the change foot camel at the end instead of the combo spin, etc.,) really affected my enjoyment of it, even though the changes were minor.

IMO the program was perfectly choreographed the 1st time around, so any changes ended up detracting from it. It was like taking something that was perfect and messing with it. I even liked the old costume better.

Anyway, it's still a masterpiece, but this was a case of "If ain't broke, don't fix it," for me.

Yeah but you know, he needed to get more points. Sigh.

 

[DreamSkates]

I completely agree, I can't fathom why it's so widely disliked here on men but not on women. (lol no I can).

Especially when the man bun is allowed to be a ponytail and the skater does a sit spin (think Denis V) and the ponytail goes whirling around. Very entertaining.

 

[DreamSkates]

Would aimless be a better word?

Maybe, lost for the moment and searching for her purpose.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

I feel like seeing all the cartwheels in programs now... it's an accident waiting to happen

I would pay good money to see one of the women or a pair/dance team do a program to Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights" and do cartwheels as she did in her Version 1 "indoor" video for that song (a pair/dance team could do them crossing in opposite directions just as she did - with some video help). Talk about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1pMMIe4hb4

 

[CantALoop]

One of my favorite of his programs. I preferred Yagudin to Plushy, but that's my opinion. I didn't find any of Yagudin's programs silly but I did find some of Plushy's silly. Likely another unpopular opinion.

At the time, I found Yagudin's Nutrocker even more silly than the Winter snow throwing, especially all his miming of instrument playing and doofy over-the-top ? expressions.

But now that I watch it two decades later, I think it's so campy it's kind of genius It also makes me miss the days where footwork sequences had patterns and were more about execution than how many twizzles, rockers, and counters one can fit into it.

 

[bladesofgorey]

I would pay good money to see one of the women or a pair/dance team do a program to Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights" and do cartwheels as she did in her Version 1 "indoor" video for that song (a pair/dance team could do them crossing in opposite directions just as she did - with some video help). Talk about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1pMMIe4hb4

I skated to this as a soloist in my local ice show back in the 80s but didn't do a cartwheel and probably was unable to match Kate's dance moves. I think one of the current tremendous Japanese skaters could do this justice.

 

[Japanfan]

If you’re not planning to do your best at a worlds/Olympics competition, you should not be sent. Overscored untouchable skaters are too selfish. There are many athletes who deserved to go & represent their country. Do the “making history/record books at a small competition.

Do you skaters go to Worlds/Olympics planning to skate their worst, or just not caring?

Do you think that Sadovsky is happy he melted down at the Olympics?

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

I would pay good money to see one of the women or a pair/dance team do a program to Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights" and do cartwheels as she did in her Version 1 "indoor" video for that song (a pair/dance team could do them crossing in opposite directions just as she did - with some video help). Talk about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1pMMIe4hb4

This has been my skating dream for years!

 

[misskarne]

Do you skaters go to Worlds/Olympics planning to skate their worst, or just not caring?

Do you think that Sadovsky is happy he melted down at the Olympics?

I'm absolutely bamboozled that you could possibly think that poster meant Sadovsky.

It's extremely obvious they meant Hanyu and the "history making/record books" comment related to Hanyu's persistent pursuit of the 4A.

 

[Japanfan]

I'm absolutely bamboozled that you could possibly think that poster meant Sadovsky.

It's extremely obvious they meant Hanyu and the "history making/record books" comment related to Hanyu's persistent pursuit of the 4A.

Okay.

I didn't think the poster meant Sadovsky, he just immediately came to mind.

 

[briancoogaert]

One of my favorite of his programs. I preferred Yagudin to Plushy, but that's my opinion. I didn't find any of Yagudin's programs silly but I did find some of Plushy's silly. Likely another unpopular opinion.

Not unpopular to me. I can't watch any Plushenko's program enterely. Always bizarre to me, with his frantic moves.

 

[sadya]

I liked the skating of Yagudin more than that of Plushenko, not all programs though. I know Plushenko is a great skater and is capable of difficult steps etc, however, I don't like his style that much. I was disappointed with this 2006 Olympic gold program, he won and deserved it but his skating did nothing for me. There are more Yagudin programs I like, but I didn't like his Olympic gold program very much either. And that SP that year? I was one of the few people who wasn't charmed by those steps and that snow throwing. The music was lovely though. And their rivalry? I wasn't on either side, both had personalities and skating which didn't turn me into a fan.

Off topic perhaps, remarks of Yagudin in recent years have disappointed me very much. He left us some great programs and many boring ones imho, but he is certainly not a great role model for anyone (well, okay, for maybe for nasty people then).

 

[Areski]

I would pay good money to see one of the women or a pair/dance team do a program to Kate Bush's "Wuthering Heights" and do cartwheels as she did in her Version 1 "indoor" video for that song (a pair/dance team could do them crossing in opposite directions just as she did - with some video help). Talk about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1pMMIe4hb4

Speaking of which ... can anyone provide me an example of any skater skating to "Wuthering Heights"? Can be even out of exhibition.

I don't recall anyone.

 

[Areski]

I liked the skating of Yagudin more than that of Plushenko, not all programs though. I know Plushenko is a great skater and is capable of difficult steps etc, however, I don't like his style that much. I was disappointed with this 2006 Olympic gold program, he won and deserved it but his skating did nothing for me. There are more Yagudin programs I like, but I didn't like his Olympic gold program very much either. And that SP that year? I was one of the few people who wasn't charmed by those steps and that snow throwing. The music was lovely though. And their rivalry? I wasn't on either side, both had personalities and skating which didn't turn me into a fan.

Off topic perhaps, remarks of Yagudin in recent years have disappointed me very much. He left us some great programs and many boring ones imho, but he is certainly not a great role model for anyone (well, okay, for maybe for nasty people then).

You were not even impressed by that section of "Winter" where Yagudin does plenty of little steps on his toe picks perfectly matching the melody of the violin?!

It was Alexei that made me want to start figure skating trainings as a kid albeit sadly the closest club to my home town was 200 kilometres away from my home town so my desire has never materialised. Maybe in the future though I will start taking figure skating lessons but right now it is inaccessible to me either way. :/

 

[sadya]

You were not even impressed by that section of "Winter" where Yagudin does plenty of little steps on his toe picks perfectly matching the melody of the violin?!

It was Alexei that made me want to start figure skating trainings as a kid albeit sadly the closest club to my home town was 200 kilometres away from my home town so my desire has never materialised. Maybe in the future though I will start taking figure skating lessons but right now it is inaccessible to me either way. :/

I didn't like that step sequence very much, to be honest.

I hope you will be able to have skating lessons in the future. It's nice to able to do something you really like

 

[screech]

I preferred Yags' programs, but Plushenko's jumps. I always found Yagudin had such a sloppy, hunched over landing on a lot of his jumps. But his skating was way more exciting to me.
Looking back with today's mindset, Winter was very cheesy, But at the time it was absolutely fantastic.

 

[VGThuy]

All this talk about "Winter" reminds me of an old FSW thread during the 2001-2002 season (before the Olympics) where a poster said they "hated" Yagudin's footwork because it was all toe picks and not "real" or "difficult" turns or steps, but by that time, nobody cared because they loved the sheer musicality, showsmanship, and physical display of the Winter footwork sequences. They were the elements you looked forward to the most, even more than the quad toe/triple toe combo.

I think "Winter" brought attention back on showmanship in footwork sequences during the late 90s-early 2000s period. Compare the crowd and commentator excitement over Winter to that of say Ilia Kulik's 1998 short program where Scott Hamilton was lamenting that footwork was a dying art after seeing Ilia Kulik's blah footwork sequence where he looked like he just wanted to get it over with.

For better or worse, it put Morosov on the choreography map and made him very much sought-after where Cohen and Kwan went to him the season after, then many other skaters did. I also think it was sort of influential when they were making IJS where they made sure to bring back the importance of footwork and "real" and "difficult" turns and steps (not really the essence of Morosovian footwork but Morosov did help show how footwork sequences could be a choreo highlight).

 

[gkelly]

Compare the crowd and commentator excitement over Winter to that of say Ilia Kulik's 1998 short program where Scott Hamilton was lamenting that footwork was a dying art after seeing Ilia Kulik's blah footwork sequence where he looked like he just wanted to get it over with.

I won't speak to 1998 (oh, OK, I will -- the commentators of this short program performance were impressed), but footwork was one of my favorite things about Kulik's skating in the previous years:

Ilia Kulik RUS - 1996 World Championships SP

SP : 1st, LP : 2nd, silver medalMarch 17th-24th, Edmonton, CAN

www.youtube.com

1997 Men Ilia Kulik SP Faust

www.youtube.com

 

[screech]

Two of my all-time favourite footwork sequences showed that you can have musicality WITH difficult steps and turns, and not have it take up 87 minutes:
Brian Orser's 1988 SP
Robin Cousins' 1980 SP

I wish we could go back to something like that. Still have requirements, but let it take 15-20 seconds.
I also miss seeing a clear pattern in the footwork. And serpentine step sequences too.

 

[gkelly]

What about deep edges, though?

The more you adhere to a straight line pattern, the more likely you are to rely only on shallow edges and flats, and few recognizable difficult turns -- as seen even in many masterpieces of the form.

At least the 1980s skaters did have to demonstrate strong edges and difficult turns in their school figures, even if most fans never got/had to watch them.

Circular and serpentine patterns would better encourage deeper edges, especially serpentines for using both directions.


Maybe, instead of asking "Are IJS step sequences as entertaining as 6.0-era step sequences?" a more meaningful question would be "Are IJS step sequences more or less entertaining than school figures?

 

[Andora]

I won't speak to 1998 (oh, OK, I will -- the commentators of this short program performance were impressed), but footwork was one of my favorite things about Kulik's skating in the previous years:

Ilia Kulik RUS - 1996 World Championships SP

SP : 1st, LP : 2nd, silver medalMarch 17th-24th, Edmonton, CAN

www.youtube.com

1997 Men Ilia Kulik SP Faust

www.youtube.com

Other than the blasted LP shirt, the only complaint to be found with Ilia's 1998 programs were how poorly the footwork stacked up to that of his 1997 SP/LP. He was capable, but gave himself breathing room for the Olympics.

Of course, speaking of unpopular opinions, I don't think Russia has had a truly great male skater since Kulik, contrary to the number of Olympic medals they've accumulated since. Yags had moments where he came close, but Plushenko... so much garbage choreography on such an esteemed skater. I thought Russia had better taste, but...

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe we can replace the vague choreo sequence (where it seems skaters just sort of skate around and maybe do an ina bauer and spread eagle or something and are done) with two of the choreo sequences they have in ice dance (choreo step (including twizzles in there), choreo spin, choreo jump sequence, choreo moves in field), I don't know.

 

[emason]

Lobacheva and Averbukh should have won 2003 Worlds, not Bourne and Kraatz.

 

[Coco]

I loved Yagudin's Winter. The following season, however, there were a few programs with similar toe steps, at least in the fall. I recall Dick Button saying, "Oh, hell no." I'm paraphrasing

 

[Icetalavista]

I liked Sarah Hughes’ Salt Lake LP and thought she performed it well. Have never really understood the hate she gets.

 

[KaoriFan]

I don't know if popular or not but Laëtitia Hubert and Surya Bonaly deserved Albertville 1992. Hubert infamously intentionally crash into Midori Ito at worlds the year before, Bonaly intentionally doing back flips very close to Midori Ito to intimidate her during Olympics practice. Good that both of them skated disaster and never won anything at the Olympics.

Midori Ito was also cheated by the Americans at 1990 Worlds. Americans should be the last to complain about Russians with their own boorish behavior. The scandal got rid of compulsory figures the next year.

 

[skatingguy]

I don't know if popular or not but Laëtitia Hubert and Surya Bonaly deserved Albertville 1992. Hubert infamously intentionally crash into Midori Ito at worlds the year before, Bonaly intentionally doing back flips very close to Midori Ito to intimidate her during Olympics practice. Good that both of them skated disaster and never won anything at the Olympics.

Midori Ito was also cheated by the Americans at 1990 Worlds. Americans should be the last to complain about Russians with their own boorish behavior. The scandal got rid of compulsory figures the next year.

Wow is that a lot of nonsense to unpack in one relatively short statement.

Both Ito & Hubert were skating backwards when the crash happened, so I don't see how Hubert was at fault. These types of crashes happen, particularly in warm-ups at competition, because the skaters are focused on themselves, and are unfamiliar with patterns of everyone else on the ice.

Doing difficult elements near other skaters in practice to unnerve competitors is not unusual, or uncommon in figure skating. It is a time honoured tradition of sport to try and intimidate your deluding, and it's up to the opponents to ignore their competitors. Ito was having lots of problems on the practices doing her triple axel in 1992, and if you think she didn't pull that element out at competitions to try and intimidate competitors you're deluding yourself.

The decision to remove figures was made before the 1990 World Championships occurred.

 

[orbitz]

I know this is an "unpopular opinion" thread, LOL, but how was Midori "cheated by the Americans at 1990 Worlds ? That makes no logical sense.

 

[skatingguy]

I know this is an "unpopular opinion" thread, LOL, but how was Midori "cheated by the Americans at 1990 Worlds ? That makes no logical sense.

She would have won if she hadn't been 10th in figures, but I think you're searching for logic in the wrong place.