U.S. Women [#5]: Remain on the Dance Floor

[layman]

The early 2000s was a Golden Age for the US women...when Deanna, Sarah, Angela, Jenny, Michelle, Sasha, Ann Patrice MacDonough...were all competing at the same time and pushing each other to be better and better. It's not a co-incidence that the last US Women's Olympic Champion was Sarah Hughes in 2002. It's been a while.

I do think a friendly rivalry between Amber Glenn, Isabeau Levito and Alyssa Liu could re-ignite that spirit heading into the next Olympics.

 

[Karen-W]

The early 2000s was a Golden Age for the US women...when Deanna, Sarah, Jenny, Michelle, Sasha, Ann Patrice MacDonough...were all competing at the same time and pushing each other to be better and better. It's not a co-incidence that the last US Women's Olympic Champion was Sarah Hughes in 2002. It's been a while.

I do think a friendly rivalry between Amber Glenn, Isabeau Levito and Alyssa Liu could re-ignite that spirit heading into the next Olympics.

I think it would be wise to add Ava Marie Ziegler and Lindsay Thorngren to that friendly rivalry mix. They've all demonstrated the ability to score very well and be competitive with the best internationally. I'm actually looking forward to and excited about seeing all of them on the GP next season. Each of them have the goods to medal consistently rather than on a fluke (Starr).

I feel like we should start a general Women's/Ladies discussion thread in the Trash Can like we have for Dance and Pairs (and a general Men's discussion thread for that matter, lol) because it's looking so exciting to see the depth developing from Europe as well as Japan and Korea continuing to compete strongly.

 

[layman]

I think it would be wise to add Ava Marie Ziegler and Lindsay Thorngren to that friendly rivalry mix. They've all demonstrated the ability to score very well and be competitive with the best internationally. I'm actually looking forward to and excited about seeing all of them on the GP next season. Each of them have the goods to medal consistently rather than on a fluke (Starr).

I feel like we should start a general Women's/Ladies discussion thread in the Trash Can like we have for Dance and Pairs (and a general Men's discussion thread for that matter, lol) because it's looking so exciting to see the depth developing from Europe as well as Japan and Korea continuing to compete strongly.

Yes indeed...Ava and Lindsay and Sarah Everhardt, who reminds me of Sarah Hughes...they could all be darkhorses (just like Sarah Hughes was).

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

The early 2000s was a Golden Age for the US women...when Deanna, ANGELA, Sarah, Jenny, Michelle, Sasha, Ann Patrice MacDonough...were all competing at the same time and pushing each other to be better and better

Fixed it.

 

[Karen-W]

Fixed it.

clearly, for @layman, Angela was as much his refrigerator break skater as she was Dick Button's.

 

[layman]

Fixed it.

Thank you...that was a memory lapse on my part.

Let me just state here and now that Angela Nikodinov was never my "fridge break." I found her skating exquisite...even before she worked with Elena Tcherkaskia, who really, really brought out her artistry (I loved Angela's program set to Prokofiev's Cinderella that she competed in 98/99...and I loved all her subsequent programs...Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty and Romeo and Juliet stand out in my mind). Angela was another of her generation who seemed to routinely skate clean programs.

 

[Jammers]

The early 2000s was a Golden Age for the US women...when Deanna, Sarah, Angela, Jenny, Michelle, Sasha, Ann Patrice MacDonough...were all competing at the same time and pushing each other to be better and better. It's not a co-incidence that the last US Women's Olympic Champion was Sarah Hughes in 2002. It's been a while.

I do think a friendly rivalry between Amber Glenn, Isabeau Levito and Alyssa Liu could re-ignite that spirit heading into the next Olympics.

If Alysa gets back to her 2021 form she will be a real threat we know that while she struggles at times with rotations that she has landed 3xels before and doesn't lose steam afterwards in her programs like Amber does. When competing she is the toughest competitor the US has for the ladies.

 

[Maximillian]

Angela was another of her generation who seemed to routinely skate clean programs.

Uh...did you ever see an Angela Nikidinov program? While she didn't necessarily fall a lot, there were always tons of pops and doubles. I don't think she ever completed a program without multiple doubles; not what I would consider a clean program.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Uh...did you ever see an Angela Nikidinov program? While she didn't necessarily fall a lot, there were always tons of pops and doubles. I don't think she ever completed a program without multiple doubles; not what I would consider a clean program.

Obviously, someone never watched 2001 worlds in Vancouver

 

[Allskate]

Obviously, someone never watched 2001 worlds in Vancouver

Angela was a wonderful skater, but she did not routinely skate clean programs with all the triples. And certainly not with the content Amber has.

There is a heck of a lot of revisionist history going on. The idea that there were a bunch of American women routinely skating cleanly simply isn't true. And, again, I ask, how many of them were routinely landing triple lutz/triple toe combos or routinely landing triple axels as part of clean programs?

The early 2000s was a Golden Age for the US women...when Deanna, Sarah, Angela, Jenny, Michelle, Sasha, Ann Patrice MacDonough...were all competing at the same time and pushing each other to be better and better. It's not a co-incidence that the last US Women's Olympic Champion was Sarah Hughes in 2002. It's been a while.

I do think a friendly rivalry between Amber Glenn, Isabeau Levito and Alyssa Liu could re-ignite that spirit heading into the next Olympics.

Are you seriously suggesting that the reason that Amber isn't performing better and pushing herself even harder is because she doesn't feel enough pressure and needs more rivals? So ludicrous. And it seems pretty clear that Isabeau already is feeling tons of pressure. She won a silver at Worlds. A clean Isabeau is not going to become Olympic champion skating against a clean Kaori just because of a rivalry with Amber and Alysa.

 

[Wyliefan]

There is a heck of a lot of revisionist history going on. The idea that there were a bunch of American women routinely skating cleanly simply isn't true.

Sasha is one of my all-tine favorite skaters, but she made me old before my time.

 

[Lanie]

Sasha is one of my all-tine favorite skaters, but she made me old before my time.

She is why I can’t Uber anybody too much anymore Too painful.

 

[aliona22]

She is why I can’t Uber anybody too much anymore Too painful.

Literally. I’ll never be burned again. When I heard anyone wail over Patrick or Gracie bombing at key moments, my first thought was that they weren’t around for Sasha.

 

[Karen-W]

I was around for Sasha. And happy to be a Sarah fan because being a Sasha fan would have had my face and heart in my hands every time she skated.

 

[aliona22]

I was around for Sasha. And happy to be a Sarah fan because being a Sasha fan would have had my face and heart in my hands every time she skated.

That took a lot of strength. Sasha was like a flame I couldn’t look away from. I knew better but I’d watch her on practice and get so drawn in. Those glorious positions, her musicality, her dynamic timing. Even at 2010 nationals when she came back, she did maybe four jumps on practice and I was head over heels again, ready for her to conquer the sport with her exquisite skating! And of course, she did not.



Unbreak my heart!

 

[PRlady]

That took a lot of strength. Sasha was like a flame I couldn’t look away from. I knew better but I’d watch her on practice and get so drawn in. Those glorious positions, her musicality, her dynamic timing. Even at 2010 nationals when she came back, she did maybe four jumps on practice and I was head over heels again, ready for her to conquer the sport with her exquisite skating! And of course, she did not.



Unbreak my heart!

Another brokenhearted Sasha fan here. I thought I’d pass out when she fell on her first two jumps in Turin. All I wanted was to see that program clean.

Since then I ubered Mirai (another exercise in frustration), Med and Kaori. The last two were so much better for my blood pressure.

 

[Debbie S]

I ubered Michelle but was also a Sasha fan. I'm not sure how I'm still alive.

I said after MK I would never uber another skater. That lasted about a year, until I saw D/W perform.

 

[Coco]

Take her first two jumps from US Nationals in 2006, then add the rest of the program from Turin.

Problem solved!

 

[Lanie]

Literally. I’ll never be burned again. When I heard anyone wail over Patrick or Gracie bombing at key moments, my first thought was that they weren’t around for Sasha.

@Wyliefan and I go way back from the SashaFans board days and oh my God it was just a mess in there with most of us being teenagers, much sobbing, wailing and gnashing of teeth

 

[leilaofpaper]

@Wyliefan and I go way back from the SashaFans board days and oh my God it was just a mess in there with most of us being teenagers, much sobbing, wailing and gnashing of teeth

Your status is highly appropriate lol

 

[Wyliefan]

@Wyliefan and I go way back from the SashaFans board days and oh my God it was just a mess in there with most of us being teenagers, much sobbing, wailing and gnashing of teeth

My gateway drug to figure skating boards!

 

[Allskate]

My gateway drug to figure skating boards!

Ironically, Paul Wylie was mine.

 

[Marco]

Jenny Kirk stopped skating cleanly around 2002ish. She was a model of consistency on triples before that. So essentially one and a half-ish seasons as a senior...

But at the same time her triples became much bigger.

 

[Marco]

Isabeau's skating is beautiful but her jumping technique is scary at times. I hope things get fixed before it is too late. Also, her spins are lovely but she isn't exiting them as gracefully - she needs to watch out on that.

For Amber, I feel we just have to accept that in order for her to increase consistency, she may have to reduce the backloading or choreographic content. Like do all the big guns up front and just leave the easier stuff near the end. The BV and PCS may take a small hit but her chance of success will be higher.

3axel
3flip3toe
3flip-2axel-2axel
3lutz
spin
3loop2toe
3loop
3sal
steps
choseq
spin
spin

 

[Vagabond]

What do you mean? I don’t see her as losing energy? someone that I see losing energy is Frangi. But I don’t see any clues of Amber losing energy throughout her short program or free program. Just her focus as they all are aware of.

I think we can leave the topic of women being past their prime in the past. And DSD has more than proven that as well.

You make it sound easy, but it really isn't.

Back before COP when Senior Men were beginning to do Free Skates with two triple axels or a triple axel and a quadruple jump, there was usually a marked deterioration in the rest of their programs. This could be seen in what we would now thing of as program components -- skating skills, performance, and composition, as well as a tendency to double, single, or fall on their other jumps. Many of these men, mind you, were younger than Amber Glenn is now, but they didn't try the more difficult jump layouts until they were already Seniors. They weren't past their prime, though. They included men who were winning World medals in large part because the 6.0 system minimized the effect of this deterioration on their placements.

The men back then don't have to contend with everything Singles Skaters do now, for example levels, downgrades, GOE, and the dreaded "q," "e," and "!" Amber Glenn has to contend with all of these things.

 

[aliona22]

I wondered if Isabeau is having spin issues this season because she isn’t practicing spins much on account of back pain from her horrible jump technique. All speculation on my part! But I think it’s weird such a well trained and prepared skater has so many spin mistakes.

 

[skatfan]

I wondered if Isabeau is having spin issues this season because she isn’t practicing spins much on account of back pain from her horrible jump technique. All speculation on my part! But I think it’s weird such a well trained and prepared skater has so many spin mistakes.

She’s been in a growth spurt - that could be playing havoc with spins as well as her jumps.

 

[Aceon6]

She’s been in a growth spurt - that could be playing havoc with spins as well as her jumps.

As could a cold or allergies. They really mess with your inner ear and the most effective medications can’t be used.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Isabeau's skating is beautiful but her jumping technique is scary at times. I hope things get fixed before it is too late.

Does it need to be fixed? She’s the world silver medalist. It’s not like it’s holding her back.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

For Amber, I feel we just have to accept that in order for her to increase consistency, she may have to reduce the backloading or choreographic content. Like do all the big guns up front and just leave the easier stuff near the end. The BV and PCS may take a small hit but her chance of success will be higher.

3axel
3flip3toe
3flip-2axel-2axel
3lutz
spin
3loop2toe
3loop
3sal
steps
choseq
spin
spin

yup

That’s what I said yesterday as well or the day before. Get all the heavy hitters out of the way, get as many points at the beginning, and if she starts doing doubles at the end, at least you got some of the big guns out of the way.