U.S. Pairs 2019-20 season - News & Updates, Part X

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Who's left? I hope they parted with their previous coaches on good terms or they will have a difficult time changing coaches yet again.

Natalia Mishkutenok or bust hennneyyyyy.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Of course. I wonder if Haven could do the Natalia spin.. If Natalia does coach pairs. She'd be great, I bet.

 

[PairSkater12345]

As Barzini said in The Godfather: "(S)he can bill for her time, after all, we are not communists." Two weeks before nationals C & T flew to CA to work with her. When it comes to lifts, some pairs can handle the added difficulty, some may not do it as easily, or may get somewhat injured trying .... C & L did well last season, they "got" the second spot, they weren't going to be downplayed as yet. If the results in Montreal are disappointing, priorities may be re-ordered .... The thing here is, despite good talent and coaches, no one or two U.S. pairs has really moved dramatically to consistently take the lead over other U.S. pairs internationally. Until that happens we can parse and dissect a lot of the assignment decisions.

Agreed

 

[PairSkater12345]

As for the complexity of the lifts for Cain/Leduc, perhaps the scoring of levels can be compared to the levels for dance.
Chock and Bates's lifts are more intricate and look harder to me than the balance lifts of Hubbell/Donohue yet they all meet the criteria for level four. I'm thinking that Ashley and Tim have found and are working on lifts that are level four but not the exact same lifts that our other teams are doing. If every team did the exact same lifts it would be very repetitive and uninspiring.
Someone up thread mentioned Denny and Frazier and their coaching team. With all that's ongoing with the investigation, they might be looking for another coach. But I looked on their bio page and they've already gone through many coaches:Jim Peterson, Dalilah, Rockne, and Ingo for a brief time. Who's left? I hope they parted with their previous coaches on good terms or they will have a difficult time changing coaches yet again.

I agree Ashley and Tim are working on level 4 lifts that are not the exact lifts (that's a politically correct way of saying they are not as complex). They are maximizing points with what they have to work with. Good for them their coaches are smart. No one is saying that every team does the same lift. I'm saying the exact opposite with the exception of Ashley and Tim. They have limited flexibility. Gosh they won't go back to that lift dismount that she crashed on.

 

[nylynnr]

I agree Ashley and Tim are working on level 4 lifts that are not the exact lifts (that's a politically correct way of saying they are not as complex). They are maximizing points with what they have to work with. Good for them their coaches are smart. No one is saying that every team does the same lift. I'm saying the exact opposite with the exception of Ashley and Tim. They have limited flexibility. Gosh they won't go back to that lift dismount that she crashed on.

Pretty much all lifts gaining L4 are difficult? (Obviously, some more so than others.) C & L were working on doing all one-point of contact lifts this season.

 

[overedge]

Here's an article about C/J's fp win, but strangely NBC Sports doesn't have a video of their winning 2nd place overall fp performance neither on their website nor uploaded on Youtube with other videos of second place finishers' performances.

KONSPIRACY!!!!

 

[aftershocks]

^^ OTT much?

Not a conspiracy, nor a konspiracy, but just simply annoying! Mariah's and Jason's free programs as covered by NBC are uploaded, along with fp for Nathan, Alysa, the Knierims, and fd for Chock/Bates. But so far, I haven't found Hub/Don's or Calalang/Johnson's programs. More of an oversight than any ballpark of conspiracy. Why your mind goes there, even jokingly, is mystifying.

 

[PairSkater12345]

Pretty much all lifts gaining L4 are difficult? (Obviously, some more so than others.) C & L were working on doing all one-point of contact lifts this season.

Sounds scary

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

^^ OTT much?

Are you joking back or did you not understand it was a joke?

 

[aftershocks]

Are you joking back or did you not understand it was a joke?

What difference does it make to you re back or forth about this, in any case.

No jokes. I want my Calalang/Johnson U.S. Nats fp uploaded by NBC, AND I WANT IT NOW!!

 

[aftershocks]

Shocks I see you are an expert at pairs nerves and how they cope with pressure.
Anyone watching the practices could see the panic, concern reaction of the coaches and Tim trying to remedy the situation. Even you would recognize the panic if you opened your eyes and looked. That's not what we need at worlds. C/J should have gone. This is political period.

Hey Shocks I see you are an expert on selection committee decisions and how USFSA works. Maybe the kinerims, K/O and D/F should seek your advice on how to influence the political process in order to overcompensate the bias of having an official to close to a pairs team. What do you think? A great consulting gig to supplement your day job. LOL

Hey PS12345, I claim no special expertise. I'm just talking common sense and logic, or I'm trying to under the circumstances of the dissing and bile being thrown around in this thread. I personally don't look at practice cam videos to determine whether or not skaters look panicked, so I'll leave the panicky practice assessments to you. (Practice cam is the only way I was able to view the practices since I was not there in person. If you were there in person, bingo, maybe you had binoculars and a microscope too. )

Ummm, anyone who is going to be competing at Worlds can experience nerves, or as you term it, 'panic.' We even saw something in that ballpark happen to cool quad meister Nathan Chen unexpectedly at the Olympics.

BTW, I doubt that all US figure skating members have a complete handle on how US figure skating works, much less how the ISU works. I said I wished I coulda been a fly-on-the-wall in the committee meeting room, not that I know how the committee reached their decision. Still, I don't have a problem with the outcome. As I've already said, in this particular instance, I would have had respect for any choice that was made. Unlike you and some others here who are continuing to whine and throw tantrums, ad nauseam.

The selection for worlds is a secret process. There are political factors that totally effect the decision. The culture is to frown upon coaches or skaters who question those decisions openly...

Maybe I should take notes. You seem very much in-the-know, if not an expert on how US figure skating works. Why not tell us more as a guest on TSL. I can't wait. Oh but, maybe you're one of those shadow figures who would never speak out openly, only in disguise.

C/J should be going.

It would be nice if C/J were going to Worlds, but hey, they are going to 4CCs, the better to continue building their experience and their momentum. So please do support them and continue cheering them on, come rain or come shine!


BTW, PS12345, you are clearly not an expert on the FSU quote feature usage. You might want to correct the misconstruction of your post #772, or not.

 

[aftershocks]

Surely this thread can now be closed for the Oracle has spoken and no-one else is worthy

You slyly rang, antmanb? Ah, but as for who the Oracle is, PS12345, seems way more worthy than me. I'm merely logic-driven, lengthy-posts driven, uber U.S. pairs passionate aftershocks.

As for me detecting some non-fans in this thread, that's pretty easy to deduce.

I don’t like C&L at all so I am even more upset by their selection.

But, are you even a U.S. pairs fan? That's the real ongoing question in this thread, at the moment: Which opinionated commenter/ A&T naysayer is actually invested in the continued growth, viability, health and rise of the U.S. pairs discipline?

 

[PairSkater12345]

You slyly rang, antmanb? Ah, but as for who the Oracle is, PS12345, seems way more worthy than me. I'm merely logic-driven, lengthy-posts driven, uber U.S. pairs passionate aftershocks.

As for me detecting some non-fans in this thread, that's pretty easy to deduce.



But, are you even a U.S. pairs fan? That's the real ongoing question in this thread, at the moment: Which opinionated commenter/ A&T naysayer is actually invested in the continued growth, viability, health and rise of the U.S. pairs discipline?

LOL while you "claim no special expertise" I would totally agree with that. That first phrase you type says it all....lol

My mission in life is not merely to survive, but to thrive; and to do so with passion, compassion, humor and style." -- Maya Angelou
I think you should change the caption "compassion, humor and style" in your footnote. Not so much....lol

 

[aftershocks]

Moving on....

How did the medal ceremony go for pairs? Did they bunch up two ceremonies back-to-back? NBC Gold rarely covers the awards, though they did for ice dance. Go figure.

I wish fan zone would post videos of the awards ceremonies and backstage interviews in the mixed zone, etc.

 

[Pastilage]

C/J can have two great performances at 4CCs! IMO, your complaining and prognosticating is short-sighted. There's no 'finally' about C/J 'getting their act together,' since they already performed lights out in the fp at U.S. Nationals. Plus, they looked great at Warsaw Cup too. The task for C/J is to continue building momentum internationally by having a great showing at 4CCs and then cheering on the two teams selected for Worlds to skate their absolute best.

This is about all U.S. teams continuing to shine. There's no room for petulance or bitterness. There's only room for everyone working hard and pushing each other so that U.S. teams can gain better recognition and respect, and achieve stellar results on the world stage consistently.

There is no petulance or bitterness; why on earth would you even imply that? It would be wonderful for Gribble/Le Duc to do well at worlds. Watching their lifts at Nationals does not inspire confidence. We will see soon enough if that was the right decision.

Just disagree on this decision which seems unfair and somewhat political.

I don't post often here. Now I see why.

 

[aftershocks]

There is no petulance or bitterness; why on earth would you even imply that? It would be wonderful for Gribble/Le Duc to do well at worlds. Watching their lifts at Nationals does not inspire confidence. We will see soon enough if that was the right decision.

Just disagree on this decision which seems unfair and somewhat political.

I don't post often here. Now I see why.

So you don't detect any petulance and bitterness by some posters. Ahem, I do. To each their own. There's no requirement for all of us to perceive things the same way.

FYI: I didn't imply anything. I stated exactly how I feel about the negative comments by some posters in this thread. This isn't new either. After the performances by the Knierims and Kayne/ O'Shea at NHK there was a lot of uncalled for making fun of Chris Knierim and looking down on K/O, while very little positive was said acknowledging the good showing by Denney/Frazier on the GP. I also think it's unfair the way Ash/Timothy have been dismissed by some fans because they failed to take full advantage of their opportunities this season internationally.

I often take time away from posting on FSU, because I value my sanity and it's not healthy to be continually confronted by uncalled for negativity and unnecessary arguing because people carry grudges, or don't agree with each other or don't like each other, or don't like the same skaters. In fact, there are a lot of posters who stay out of competition threads because of the often over-emotional carping and snarking after result outcomes. It's the negativity toward skaters that I push back against. I also try my best to be positive and supportive of skaters, which does not mean I don't have critical things to say when warranted. But I try to state my critiques of skaters in ways that are constructive and not damning or dismissive.

Once again, I repeat: This was a surprising decision, but I think it's a strategic decision. I don't feel the need to criticize the decision because I can understand why it was made. I don't think the overdone outcry against this choice is necessary or helpful to any of the U.S. pairs skaters. I get the fact that some fans dislike the deviation from podium results, but there has been plenty of forewarning that this kind of selection process will continue to be in effect as part of policy changes.

I'm transparent about the fact that Ash/Timothy are one of my favorite pairs teams, but I can separate my emotions from my assessment of why the assignment decision was made. Those crying 'politics' surely are aware that politics is a huge part of how this sport is managed. No decision in this sport is made without politics being involved. But talent, abilities, potential, and competition results are as much a part of the decision-making along with the political factors.

I don't see any reason to pick apart skaters who were selected and to put out negative thoughts that suggest you don't back them either because you don't believe in them or because there are other reasons you hope they don't perform well, or you have no emotional investment in them performing well. If A&T don't do well at Worlds, then I guess you can say, “I told you so.” Personally, I am supportive of all U.S. pairs teams, come rain or come shine. I don't see any good coming out of continual bickering and whining, particularly not in this instance.

OTOH, if you actually wish to have a constructive and thoughtful conversation about the weaknesses, and the strengths of various skaters, have at it.

 

[PairSkater12345]

There is no petulance or bitterness; why on earth would you even imply that? It would be wonderful for Gribble/Le Duc to do well at worlds. Watching their lifts at Nationals does not inspire confidence. We will see soon enough if that was the right decision.

Just disagree on this decision which seems unfair and somewhat political.

I don't post often here. Now I see why.

Shocks is here for the Shock effect and the opportunity to over react with personal attacks. While she pretends to want all the pairs skaters to do well she really can't stand anyone who disagrees with her.

 

[aftershocks]

Shocks is here for the Shock effect and the opportunity to over react with personal attacks. While she pretends to want all the pairs skaters to do well she really can't stand anyone who disagrees with her.

Ummm, I wonder if you can share what effect you are here for PS12345?

I don't care who disagrees with me or who agrees with me. It's more about trying to share honestly and transparently, but it's more-so about wishing to celebrate skaters and the joy they give us, and the difficult journeys they are on.

Ultimately, I come here to share my opinions and to hope for some intelligent conversation, whether or not we all agree with each other, since agreement rarely happens and it's not a requirement. God only knows why I continue to hold out hope, when I'm constantly confronted with evidence to the contrary.

 

[PairSkater12345]

Ummm, I wonder if you can share what effect you are here for PS12345?

I don't care who disagrees with me or who agrees with me. It's more about trying to share honestly and transparently, but it's more-so about wishing to celebrate skaters and the joy they give us, and the difficult journeys they are on.

Ultimately, I come here to share my opinions and to hope for some intelligent conversation, whether or not we all agree with each other, since agreement rarely happens and it's not a requirement. God only knows why I continue to hold out hope, when I'm constantly confronted with evidence to the contrary.

There you go again with the personal attacks.....lol. You confuse bullying people with Intelligent conversation. I have a request, Please tell me what you know about the journeys our pairs skaters are on.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ You conflate petulant attacks and snarky demands with your own self-importance. I'm sure that's another reason why more people who might have intelligent ideas or observations to share, stay away or only enter to read now and then just to roll their eyes.

Moving on...

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[PairSkater12345]

There you go again with the personal attacks.....lol. You confuse bullying people with Intelligent conversation. I have a request, Please tell me what you know about the journeys our pairs skaters are on.

Well I have to press on. YOU BULLY PEOPLE AND THEN YOU "move on". Please, I'm interested in understanding what you know about the journeys our pairs teams are on. Let's communicate and not berate. All ears.....lol

 

[aftershocks]

I feel no need to engage with you PS12345 and your negative, petulant attitude. Go back and read my posts in this thread where I talk about the journeys of U.S. pairs skaters. If you are truly interested you would be communicating and not berating, just for the heck of it, which you seem to enjoy doing.

Better yet, why not be more transparent about who you are, and what your motivations and hidden agendas are even posting in this thread.

 

[PairSkater12345]

I feel no need to engage with you PS12345 and your negative, petulant attitude. Go back and read my posts in this thread where I talk about the journeys of U.S. pairs skaters. If you are truly interested you would be communicating and not berating, just for the heck of it, which you seem to enjoy doing.

Better yet, why not be more transparent about who you are, and what your motivations and hidden agendas are even posting in this thread.

Hey Shocks
I'm interested in your opinion as to why the selection committee decided not to send Ashley and Tim to four continents?
What are your thoughts on this subject?

 

[PairSkater12345]

I feel no need to engage with you PS12345 and your negative, petulant attitude. Go back and read my posts in this thread where I talk about the journeys of U.S. pairs skaters. If you are truly interested you would be communicating and not berating, just for the heck of it, which you seem to enjoy doing.

Better yet, why not be more transparent about who you are, and what your motivations and hidden agendas are even posting in this thread.

So you really don't want to have a fair debate and dialogue. You want me to read what you said. Well I have and you don't say anything about the journeys our pairs skating teams are on. Again I'm interested in what you have say about that.

 

[aftershocks]

Hey Shocks
I'm interested in your opinion as to why the selection committee decided not to send Ashley and Tim to four continents?
What are your thoughts on this subject?

Please read the thread more carefully, and try not to be so disrespectful in the way you are addressing me. What you queried about 4CCs has previously been discussed by a number of posters in this thread and in the assignment thread in GSD. I was not in the committee meeting room, so I don't know how the conversation went about the selection decisions.

Isn't it fairly obvious though that the top podium placers at U.S. Nats are being rewarded with a trip to 4CCs, and that A&T are being sent to Worlds with the Knierims because only two spots are available. A&T and the Knierims overall have been well regarded internationally and have a lot of strengths that U.S. fed apparently hopes will positively and successfully come to the fore at Worlds for the best possible results that might help the continued growth of the U.S. pairs discipline. C/J are a developing team and 4CCs will give them a chance to continue building a reputation internationally. It might be difficult for C/J at Worlds politically as a fairly new team with no Worlds experience, and in terms of the starting orders. C/J can continue getting better and gaining confidence at 4CCs, and they will surely have another opportunity to go to Worlds.

You appear to have some agenda against Ash/Timothy for whatever reason. Why don't you tell us more about the skaters you support and why? I've already been completely honest about my passion for pairs skating, my love for U.S. pairs, and I've discussed many times who my fave U.S. pairs skaters are and why, as well as discussing their journeys. I always give a shout out to all the U.S. pairs because I support all of them.

I just shared Ash's thoughtful Instagram posts, in which she honors the journeys of her teammates. It would be nice for true fans of U.S. pairs to join in with more positive reflections.

 

[PairSkater12345]

I interested in what people think about the risks of our skating team going to Four continents. There's lots of conversation about the Coronavirus and South Korea outside of this blog. The team is leaving soon. What do people think?

 

[feraina]

I interested in what people think about the risks of our skating team going to Four continents. There's lots of conversation about the Coronavirus and South Korea outside of this blog. The team is leaving soon. What do people think?

South Korea is not that much worse than Southern California in terms of number of cases per capita.

 

[PairSkater12345]

Please read the thread more carefully, and try not to be so disrespectful in the way you are addressing me. What you queried about 4CCs has previously been discussed by a number of posters in this thread and in the assignment thread in GSD. I was not in the committee meeting room, so I don't know how the conversation went about the selection decisions.

Isn't it fairly obvious though that the top podium placers at U.S. Nats are being rewarded with a trip to 4CCs, and that A&T are being sent to Worlds with the Knierims because only two spots are available. A&T and the Knierims overall have been well regarded internationally and have a lot of strengths that U.S. fed apparently hopes will positively and successfully come to the fore at Worlds for the best possible results that might help the continued growth of the U.S. pairs discipline. C/J are a developing team and 4CCs will give them a chance to continue building a reputation internationally. It might be difficult for C/J at Worlds politically as a fairly new team with no Worlds experience, and in terms of the starting orders. C/J can continue getting better and gaining confidence at 4CCs, and they will surely have another opportunity to go to Worlds.

You appear to have some agenda against Ash/Timothy for whatever reason. Why don't you tell us more about the skaters you support and why? I've already been completely honest about my passion for pairs skating, my love for U.S. pairs, and I've discussed many times who my fave U.S. pairs skaters are and why, as well as discussing their journeys. I always give a shout out to all the U.S. pairs because I support all of them.

I just shared Ash's thoughtful Instagram posts, in which she honors the journeys of her teammates. It would be nice for true fans of U.S. pairs to join in with more positive reflections.

I'm was interested in YOUR opinion. No agenda. I'm not disrespectful, you seem to be to sensitive when people ask you questions and not so sensitive when people express their opinion. I just asked you a direct question.

You say "Isn't it fairly obvious though that the top podium placers at U.S. Nats are being rewarded with a trip to 4CCs, and that A&T are being sent to Worlds with the Knierims because only two spots are available". You say "The selection committee picked Ashley and Tim because there are only two spots". You imply it's obvious they deserve the second spot. Based on what logic? The top two teams should have been selected to worlds ? Why do you think "well regarded" matters more that results internationally? Again if Ashley and Tim are the best second choice for worlds, why for gosh sake didn't USFSA send Ashley and Tim to four continents as well? After all you say, Ashley and Tim have the track record internationally. Why not give them more opportunity to prove it. If C/J were to skate "Lights Out" like they did at nationals why would reputation matter more than results? After all it's all about chasing points in the new judging system. At USFSA, all that matters is winning period. Unfortunately winning requires way to much personal influence and politics. Candidly with the exception of Salt Lake, Ashley and Tim have not had a great year. As far as their national championship, Ashley and Tim benefited by one mistake by K/O to win 2019 nationals. I don't see a lot of track record. Their worlds skate was far better than Haven and Brandon (not getting a chance at the free skate) but not remarkable or even competitive, just enough to get two spots.

It's nice that "Ash's thoughtful Instagram posts, in which she honors the journeys of her teammates. It would be nice for true fans of U.S. pairs to join in with more positive reflections". I say It would be nice if skaters worked more on being the best and not on politics. It's not nice when one Paris team has an unfair advantage because of official relationships vs real results. IMHO LOL.

You keep mentioning your support Ashley and Tim, good for you. I support the growth of US figure skating. Especially pairs, (far more interesting overall than the other disciplines). It's a fabulous sport that needs to sort out and remove the unfair advantage of politics. That's my agenda.

No individual pair team Agenda, I'm a student of the pairs discipline. I support the teams that will get the USA medals.

 

[PairSkater12345]

South Korea is not that much worse than Southern California in terms of number of cases per capita.

I think you should look at the pandemic in total. While still relatively small numbers, The coronavirus infection is doubling every 6.5 days globally, based on some experts. There are 50 million people in China under lockdown. Cases per capita in Cal are a little less relevant don't you think?

The USOC and USFSA have taken some precautions for Four continents and I was wondering if anyone had any additional input. Seems like a logical question.

 

[aftershocks]

PS12345, the selection assignments have already been discussed in two different threads here. You appear to be baiting and inciting just for the heck of it. You do not appear to be interested in a genuine dialogue. To me your behavior is very suspiciously trollish, which is rather useless and a waste of time and energy. Find another target.