U.S. Men 2019-20 season - news & updates

[Tavi]

Since we were talking about a certain lack of depth in the middle for US men, I was simply matching the recent retirees (as of the past year only) with the newcomers who are essentially replacing them, and speculating that their potential will get them there. I personally believe they will. Abbott and Lysacek are long gone and just did not figure into my equation. I will leave it there. We obviously look at things differently

Yes we do, and I understand your reason for making comparisons to recent retirees. However, your comment that “Nathan and Vincent are way above what any US man achieved in the past decade” has nothing at all to do with 2018 retirees, so for me it unnecessarily obscured what you seem to be saying was your point.

 

[olympic]

Yes we do, and I understand your reason for making comparisons to recent retirees. However, your comment that “Nathan and Vincent are way above what any US man achieved in the past decade” has nothing at all to do with 2018 retirees, so for me it unnecessarily obscured what you seem to be saying was your point.

Let's call it over-exuberance for those two on my part It probably would have been better to say post-Vancouver rather than 'last decade' because Lysacek was not on my mind, and in that sense, Zhou as a world-medalist has achieved more in my mind than any US man 2011 forward

 

[Tavi]

Let's call it over-exuberance for those two on my part It probably would have been better to say post-Vancouver rather than 'last decade' because Lysacek was not on my mind, and in that sense, Zhou as a world-medalist has achieved more in my mind than any US man 2011 forward

Okay.

 

[barbarafan]

Well, Alexa, thanks for clarification. To my knowledge, though, I have never complained about reports of Nathan’s health before Worlds.

By the way, I have no problem with people discussing Nathan’s school schedule. My only point is that in normal conversation, most people don’t constantly bring up the name of someone’s school, and it’s done a lot here. I find it unnecessary and tiresome, but that is my own quirk. I have never ever told anyone talking about Nathan to stop mentioning Yale or his school schedule, and I never will; the most I’ve ever done was say in this thread that I’m tired of hearing the word Yale. As people are now probably tired of reading about my quirk - and as it’s really off topic for this thread - I’m going to stop mentioning it now.

As to the excessive media hype, I solved it by getting a subscription to NBC Sports Gold, which is commentary free most of the time.

Cheers.

After all the nonsense of male students at Yale re: Brett Kavanaugh's hearings I certainly wouldn't be bragging about going or having gone to Yale.

 

[Alexa]

Well, Alexa, thanks for clarification. To my knowledge, though, I have never complained about reports of Nathan’s health before Worlds.

By the way, I have no problem with people discussing Nathan’s school schedule. My only point is that in normal conversation, most people don’t constantly bring up the name of someone’s school, and it’s done a lot here. I find it unnecessary and tiresome, but that is my own quirk. I have never ever told anyone talking about Nathan to stop mentioning Yale or his school schedule, and I never will; the most I’ve ever done was say in this thread that I’m tired of hearing the word Yale. As people are now probably tired of reading about my quirk - and as it’s really off topic for this thread - I’m going to stop mentioning it now.

As to the excessive media hype, I solved it by getting a subscription to NBC Sports Gold, which is commentary free most of the time.

Cheers.

Cheers, I modified the part about Nathan’s health before worlds. I remember the wrong person, sorry about that. Personally I don’t like the mentioning of Yale myself, for the reason I stated in my first reply, repeated mentioning just added more pressure to Nathan in my eyes. But it is just my personal opinion. To me some people use tends to use Yale 1 because that is his school 2. Yale is simple to type than college or school.

I have NBCGold too

Update on Vincent, according to his IG post, he is attending Brown for one semester, then he would focus on skating, and then come back to finish school after Olympics.

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[aftershocks]

People talked about Stanford when Debi Thomas went there and when Rachael Flatt attended while initially still skating. In addition, we've heard mention of Polina Edmund's school in California when she was first enrolled. We learned about Richard Dornbush's post-skating academic plans. As well, Paul Wylie put off going to law school at Harvard to pursue a pro career, but he eventually attended Harvard to study for an MBA.

Former U.S. men's champion from the 1970s, John Misha Petkevich, attended the University of Oxford as a Rhodes scholar and he graduated with a Ph.D. in cell biology. He later attended Harvard on a private fellowship to study music. His post-skating and academic careers have included involvement in the securities industry as a biotechnology analyst, as well as management careers in healthcare banking and investment banking. JMP also served on the Board of U.S. Figure Skating, and was Head of the Investment Committee. He's been a fs commentator, and he wrote a respected book on figure skating technique. He's also composed music for small concerts. As @floskate termed JMP in her famous montage, he is indeed, A Renaissance Man.

John Misha Petkevich - Renaissance Man

John Misha Petkevich was the 1971 US Nationals and North American Champion. He competed internationally from 1968 - 1972. While at Harvard in 1970, he founde...

www.youtube.com

And look what happened to Dick Button. I didn't know this -- it's from his Wiki bio. It's kind of funny how things come full circle:
"Button had intended to attend Yale University beginning in the fall of 1947, but deferred a year due to the Olympics.[1] Although he had originally been assured that his skating would not be a problem as long as his grades were good, he was later informed that he could not continue competing if he wanted to attend Yale. On advice from people from the Skating Club of Boston, Button applied to, and was accepted at, Harvard College. Button was a full-time student at Harvard while skating competitively and graduated in 1952 and was a member of The Delphic Club, one of the University's select 'Final Clubs'. He won every competition he entered for the rest of his competitive career. He trained at the Skating Club of Boston while attending Harvard, commuting to Lake Placid during breaks... Button decided to enter Harvard Law School in the fall of 1952. Because of the time commitments, Button retired from amateur skating that year to focus on law school.[1]"

Yale continues to have a similar strict academic policy apparently, but they've been accommodating to Nathan in ways they were not to Dick so many years ago. But going to Harvard and later to Harvard Law School served Dick very well. If he hadn't retired to complete his legal studies, I wonder how many more championships he could have won.

I almost forgot my point, getting caught up in all these illustrious, education-minded fs athletes! There's really not much new under the sun. Only the culture and time period have changed. There have always been fs athletes who've dared to go to school while continuing to skate, and it's always been a balancing act. Don't forget physician, Tenley Albright, and Condoleeza Rice who also skated, albeit not prominently. There are plenty of other skaters I could mention including Japanese skaters who fulfilled academic goals post-skating (Tatsuki Machida and Takahiko Kozuka to name two). After retirement, Sasha Cohen attended Columbia and Timothy Goebel earned a mathematics degree from Columbia, as well as a Master's degree in data science from New York University. Both Hughes sisters attended Yale, I believe. There's that Yale reference again...

Yale has recently been mentioned a lot in connection to Nathan chiefly because it is rather amazing that he was able to pull off going to the ivy league school of his choice so far away from his training center. Most impressive is the fact he managed to win all of his major competitions throughout the past season while still excelling at a school as demanding as Yale.

 

[Tavi]

Umm. Ivy League schools aren’t any more demanding than any other good school. They are perceived as more “prestigious,” and that’s the whole reason people talk about them.

 

[Dobre]

I went to a nice, mostly normal liberal arts college. It blows my mind that anyone can go to college full time and skate at the elite level.

for Nathan tackling Yale.
for Karen tackling Cornell.
for Vincent tackling Brown.
for Dick.
for Debbie.
for Paul.
for Max and all the other athletes that strive for a great education and also skate.
for Sasha and all those athletes that skate first and then strive for a great education.

 

[Tavi]

I went to a nice, mostly normal liberal arts college. It blows my mind that anyone can go to college full time and skate at the elite level.

for Nathan tackling Yale.
for Karen tackling Cornell.
for Vincent tackling Brown.
for Dick.
for Debbie.
for Paul.
for Max and all the other athletes that strive for a great education and also skate.
for Sasha and all those athletes that skate first and then strive for a great education.

It is very impressive. But frankly, I’m just as impressed by single parents and people who worked full time, sometimes in demanding jobs, while taking full course loads.

 

[missing]

It is very impressive. But frankly, I’m just as impressed by single parents and people who worked full time, sometimes in demanding jobs, while taking full course loads.

And I'm even more impressed by my fellow classmates who stopped the war in Vietnam and got high and had casual sex and went to great concerts and changed the face of Hollywood movies, while taking full course loads.

But since this is a figure skating board, I think it's sufficient to state our admiration of figure skaters who successfully combine education and skating and leave other equally admirable people out of the discussion.

 

[thvu]

And I think context is always important @missing , so I don’t see how leaving out comparisons does anything other than keep us in a bubble.

 

[BittyBug]

My only point is that in normal conversation, most people don’t constantly bring up the name of someone’s school, and it’s done a lot here. I find it unnecessary and tiresome, but that is my own quirk.

The irony of your complaint is that it has caused even more discussion about that school that shall not be named. Please, people - this is the NEWS and UPDATES thread in GREAT SKATE DEBATE. That Chen is a student at some college somewhere in Connecticut is not news.

 

[Tavi]

The irony of your complaint is that it has caused even more discussion about that school that shall not be named. Please, people - this is the NEWS and UPDATES thread in GREAT SKATE DEBATE. That Chen is a student at some college somewhere in Connecticut is not news.

Totally agreed, and for this I apologize. My original remark was off hand and never intended to generate discussion.

ETA @missing, this is the US Men’s news thread. My post was indeed off topic, but in fact, almost all of the recent posts here have also been way off topic, and I’m just gonna leave it at that.

To hopefully bring the thread back on topic, does anyone know if Jason is still in China with Brian? He’s scheduled to compete at the Peggy Fleming Trophy in CS on Friday, and I’d love to drive down and see him. When I contacted Broadmoor Skating Club a few days ago they confirmed he was scheduled but weren’t sure he’d make it. Anyone know? He was still in China a few days ago, but I haven’t seen anything in the past couple of days. Any news appreciated!

 

[jlai]

Ah Chen going to Yale is news no more, though zhou going to Brown certainly is.

 

[aftershocks]

Umm. Ivy League schools aren’t any more demanding than any other good school. They are perceived as more “prestigious,” and that’s the whole reason people talk about them.

I didn't say that ivy league schools are more 'demanding.' Of course, such schools actually are considered more 'prestigious' in our culture, but that of course doesn't mean you can't get just as good or better an education elsewhere. Witness Sasha Obama reportedly turning down her Yale acceptance for the University of Michigan.

In fact, acquiring a good education doesn't necessarily mean going the typical college route at all. But it's almost a necessity to do so these days, even though there are successful people who dropped out of college or took a completely different path to their bliss.

FYI, I was referencing Yale as 'demanding' specifically in the sense of the school being so persnickety about their academic requirements as demonstrated by how Dick Button was given that ultimatum so many years ago. When Nathan announced Yale as his choice, there was a lot of discussion about how Yale has strict academic requirements and is not known to be lenient about taking time out for athletic pursuits.

It is very impressive. But frankly, I’m just as impressed by single parents and people who worked full time, sometimes in demanding jobs, while taking full course loads.

The simple fact of what some skaters and other athletes have been able to accomplish combining academic studies with pursuit of their sport, does not negate anything that other accomplished and heroic individuals have been able to achieve. Why should that be your go-to assumption?

 

[Tavi]

I didn't say that ivy league schools are more 'demanding.' Of course, such schools actually are considered more 'prestigious' in our culture, but that of course doesn't mean you can't get just as good or better an education elsewhere. Witness Sasha Obama reportedly turning down her Yale acceptance for the University of Michigan.

In fact, acquiring a good education doesn't necessarily mean going the typical college route at all. But it's almost a necessity to do so these days, even though there are successful people who dropped out of college or took a completely different path to their bliss.

FYI, I was referencing Yale as 'demanding' specifically in the sense of the school being so persnickety about their academic requirements as demonstrated by how Dick Button was given that ultimatum so many years ago. When Nathan announced Yale as his choice, there was a lot of discussion about how Yale has strict academic requirements and is not known to be lenient about taking time out for athletic pursuits.



The simple fact of what some skaters and other athletes have been able to accomplish combining academic studies with pursuit of their sport, does not negate anything that other accomplished and heroic individuals have been able to achieve. Why should that be your go-to assumption?

Could we please, please, please, stop talking about this? It has nothing to do with news about current US men. At this point, I have nothing else to say, and I’m sure other people will be grateful if we don’t continue the off topic. Thanks.

 

[aftershocks]

Could we please, please, please, stop talking about this? It has nothing to do with news about current US men. At this point, I have nothing else to say, and I’m sure other people will be grateful if we don’t continue the off topic. Thanks.

ITA. But it was your complaining about U.S. men and attempting to precipitate discussion, and 'hating' those you know what references that led to the thread drift.

 

[Tavi]

ITA. But it was your complaining about U.S. men and attempting to precipitate discussion, and 'hating' those you know what references that led to the thread drift.

If you go back and read my post 22, you’ll see that in fact I was not complaining about US men.

I would still be interested in hearing any news that people have, especially as to whether Jason will in fact be competing in CS on Friday.

 

[Willin]

I do wonder how the Zhou situation will work. Nathan does tele-coaching with Raf while it sounds like Zhou wants to train in Japan/Colorado while attending Brown (based on the month’s estimates he’s giving for each location). It may be possible to do that during homeschooled high school, but somehow I doubt Brown would let a student - especially a freshman - do all their credits online at a distance. Maybe he’s planning to do tele-coaching or the “months” is actually weeks?

 

[Tahuu]

Jack Gallagher interviewed Nathan in Japan:

Jack and Ayano speak with world champion Nathan Chen about his relationship with Yuzuru Hanyu, his thoughts on Shoma Uno training with Eteri Tutberidze, Daisuke Takahashi’s comeback, his popularity in Japan, and much more.

 

[rosewood]

I do wonder how the Zhou situation will work. Nathan does tele-coaching with Raf while it sounds like Zhou wants to train in Japan/Colorado while attending Brown (based on the month’s estimates he’s giving for each location). It may be possible to do that during homeschooled high school, but somehow I doubt Brown would let a student - especially a freshman - do all their credits online at a distance. Maybe he’s planning to do tele-coaching or the “months” is actually weeks?

According Zhou's IG he's "just doing one semester then focusing on skating. I will resume after the 2022 Olympics". It sounds kinda doable. Probably he'll be busy with studies & training during the first semester (which means the first half of 2019-2020 season(?) ) but after that he can focus on skating up to 2022 Olys.

 

[Willin]

@rosewood They'll let them take that much time off? I know you can't defer the first year, but as was discussed with Nathan, he'll be automatically disenrolled if he misses more than one school year in a row. I would imagine most schools have a similar policy.

 

[Debbie S]

@rosewood They'll let them take that much time off? I know you can't defer the first year, but as was discussed with Nathan, he'll be automatically disenrolled if he misses more than one school year in a row. I would imagine most schools have a similar policy.

It was posted upthread, or maybe in another thread, that Brown allows students a leave of absence. Each college has its own rules and I'm sure Vincent wouldn't make an announcement like that without having worked out all the details.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

If you go back and read my post 22, you’ll see that in fact I was not complaining about US men.

I would still be interested in hearing any news that people have, especially as to whether Jason will in fact be competing in CS on Friday.

So I guess the answer is "no" to whether there is info on Jason.

 

[misskarne]

Well actually, the answer is yes. Jason competed at the Peggy Fleming Trophy, performed his DEH ex, and won.

 

[Tavi]

So I guess the answer is "no" to whether there is info on Jason.

As @misskarne noted, Jason did in fact compete last night and won. Everything was clean and beautiful, and it was pretty interesting to watch how he handled the combined jet lag and altitude: he conserved energy and did just enough to win. He really strikes me as an adult now. There is a power and amplitude to his skating and jumps that really stood out among the rest of the field (it was combined men and ladies), and he seems confident in his technique. I didn’t take a vid, but I’m pretty sure zucchilles on Twitter did and said she’d post it today.

The other men who competed were Andrew Torgashev, who took silver with almost as high components as Jason, Emmanuel Savary, who skated beautifully to “Oh come oh come Emmanuel,” Tomoki Hiwatashi, and Camden Pulkinen. Andrew T is very showy, very fast, and has great skating skills. Tomoki and Camden both skated well but did not have as much impact for me as the other three guys. Andrew T fans will be happy to know that after the comp was over and people were doing the traditional end of comp showy stuff, he landed a great 4T.

 

[BittyBug]

Emmanuel Savary, who skated beautifully...

I am very happy to hear this - thank you for sharing. Savary has such beautiful lines, but he has been plagued by injuries. I am hoping that he will have a breakout season in which he skates to his full potential.

 

[Sylvia]

Thanks for sharing, @Tavi! Fan cams from last night's Peggy Fleming Trophy:

Jason Brown ("Waving Through A Window" from Dear Evan Hansen): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ZIQCSSoSg

Camden Pulkinen (debut of his "Caruso" SP, choreo. by Josh Farris): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz-yeMnAIrA
ETA that Camden tweeted earlier this month that he was inspired by Denis Ten's 2015 "Caruso" program: https://twitter.com/CamdenPulk/status/1139344053298876416

2nd half of Tomoki Hiwatashi's fun performance: https://twitter.com/zucchilles/status/1144820130595127297

(News/results from the 2019 Broadmoor Open have been/are being posted in its own competition thread in Kiss & Cry.)

 

[shine]

And who inspired Nathan? Because it didn't just come out of nowhere.



No, we can't, because it wasn't him. It just wasn't until him that USFS finally pulled their heads out of their asses and realised that yes, multiple quads were the way to go, and oh, maybe we shouldn't have squashed that one guy who could before now.

Oh, I guess it was just a total coincidence that the USFS hyped Chen but not Aaron.

And I’m sure that Max was the one great inspiration for Nathan to start going for multiple quads. Only Nathan saw what none in the USFS could see in Max, and decided to follow in his footsteps.

 

[Jammers]

If only Andrew could land his jumps consistently especially the 3a he would move into the top 4 US Men easily he has everything else he needs to be a contender for the World team.