U.S. Men 2019-20 season - news & updates

[Willin]

TBH I don't know if I think Nathan changed the men's field in the US as much as he is the logical conclusion of men's skating worldwide, or at least what men's was before 2018-2019. If anything, I think Jason is going to be more of a trendsetter after his performance at Worlds 2019.
He may have faltered in the FS, but he got SECOND in the SP without a quad. Now, that's not to say I think men will only go for PCS/SS/Spins/Steps in the future, but I think the reality is that the vast majority of male skaters, even those at the top right now, will only have one or two consistent quads. Jason's performance shows that those men who can only get 1-2 consistent quads have hope to compete with the Nathans, Yuzus, Jins, and Chas if they make everything else excellent. I would think that will inspire more men to stay with it and work on more than just jumps.

 

[Dobre]

I don't really think it does. There are a slew of guys who are competitive in the SP in juniors where the quad is not allowed. But only a few can control their own destiny in the LP. (Has been true for several years).

Do not get me wrong. I think it's clear the new system is much more balanced & values clean programs to a much higher degree. And I really think that's a beautiful thing. Not only Jason, but also athletes like Aymoz and Rizzo and--gasp--even Brezina broke through this season on the strength of their musicality and clean(ish) performances.

But at the end of the day, in the deep fields, it's like it was for years with Patrick, Javi, and Hanyu. These guys with the multiple quadruple jumps--they had the artistry too. And could run the table. Today's group cannot run it with as many mistakes as last season. But still...

They're running it.

And you figure on adding another generation of up & comers to the group already at the top by the next Olympiad. Kids who know they don't have the time on the senior scene to get the PCS marks like the guys at the top. What do you think those kids are going to do?

 

[YukiNieve]

Vincent Zhou signed a contract with Kinoshita Group, one of the well-known conglomerates in Japan whose subsidiaries encompass building homes, real estate, elderly care, education, among other things.

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Kinoshita Group often puts advertisement on the board of the competition rink.

They also support Satoko Miyahara and Koshiro Shimada.
Their website already has Vincent's name and photo here:

スポーツクラブ | フィギュアスケート

スポーツを通じて人々に感動を与えたいという想いから、 木下グループは夢に向かって邁進するアスリートを応援しています。

kinoshita-group-sports.com

ETA: Kinoshita Group has also been the title sponsor for Japan Open since 2006.

 

[aftershocks]

Rippon was 6th at 2016 Worlds w/ the performance of his life

Adam should have placed higher the way he performed, compared with some of the top honchos slotted above him, and with 3 U.S. guys in the top 10, they should NOT have lost a third spot. Skating in home country too!

Again, it was quad snobbery, whether or not the quad wielders made mistakes or not. And then the following season when a U.S. guy broke records showing everyone how to land 5 quads in a fp, suddenly the ISU decided to stop over-valuing quads. Suddenly, quads are okay and still necessary but not the be-all and end-all. The ISU realized that with the over-valuing and with anyone, especially U.S. guy Nathan landing quads like that, it takes the judges' control out of the equation. A big reason why GOE point-range was increased too.

 

[aftershocks]

Nathan is simply a phenomenon. There's really no one else like him. He's unique, he's a groundbreaking, earth-shaking talent. But in terms of the whole quad thing and U.S. men, that's somewhat over-stated about Nathan. Historically, a U.S. guy was the first to land a quad (in practice, not competition). And U.S. guys had quads before Nathan, albeit not all consistently, but there were a number of U.S. guys with quads before Nathan, including Quad King, Timothy Goebel, ETA: and Max Aaron. Jeremy Abbott could land them, and so could Richard Dornbush, Joshua Farris, Philip Warren, etc (albeit they had to work on solid consistency). Ross Miner landed perhaps two in his competition career cleanly. Adam worked hard, and he did land a few clean, ratified ones in competition. Evan Lysacek landed successful quads, but he's not usually remembered for having done so. Johnny landed them in practice, but he never pushed himself too hard to try them in competition because there wasn't huge incentive to do so. Both Michael Weiss and Brian Boitano flirted with them, but that was when they were seen as some kind of amazing oddity, not a necessity.

What Nathan has accomplished re quads was precipitated by him wanting to win and seeing that quads could get you on the podium fast. He could do it all anyway, so if it was being balletic that meant more than quads, he could have concentrated on his graceful artistry more heavily and gradually increased his quads, instead of exponentially increasing them in one season. Things go in cycles, but Nathan's well-rounded talent, coupled with his cool personality is rare. He not only leads U.S. men, he leads the men internationally, right alongside Hanyu.

It's been said before, and I'll say it again: the sport did not understand the significance of quads, and they botched their development, just like a lot of other needed changes such as the scoring system. They didn't pay attention to getting ahead of the curve in managing and considering options and long term strategies for change sooner. Instead they came in with a hammer by the seat of their pants -- first with COP/IJS, which happened in response to an Olympic judging scandal -- and then with the quad over-valuing due to a public tantrum and resultant embarrassment at another Olympics. Last minute ways of doing things never work well.

 

[misskarne]

And U.S. guys had quads before Nathan, albeit not all consistently, but there were a number of U.S. guys with quads before Nathan, including Quad King, Timothy Goebel. Jeremy Abbott could land them, and so could Richard Dornbush, Joshua Farris, Philip Warren, etc (albeit they had to work on solid consistency). Ross Miner landed perhaps two in his competition career cleanly. Adam worked hard, and he did land a few clean, ratified ones in competition. Evan Lysacek landed successful quads, but he's not usually remembered for having done so. Johnny landed them in practice, but he never pushed himself too hard to try them in competition because there wasn't huge incentive to do so. Both Michael Weiss and Brian Boitano flirted with them, but that was when they were seen as some kind of amazing oddity, not a necessity.

Are you serious? I know everyone is in the biggest rush they can be to forget him, but this paragraph is just an insult.

Everyone is trying very hard to forget that Max saw this coming three years before Nathan even made his Senior debut at Nationals. He got punished for it, denigrated, rejected, even had people gloat when he missed the Olympic team, all the while the USFS shoved their heads up their asses about the importance of quads.

Nathan has said he was inspired by Max. The rush to forget him is horrible. The rush to erase him from the achievements of the US men is just as bad.

 

[olympic]

I was actually just trying to follow your argument, and I’m still not clear what it is or why you would exclude medalling at the GPF or 4 Continents, which several US men, including Jason, have done.

Vincent seems to be training hard and we’ll see what he does next season, but in my personal opinion, the nearly 30 point jump in his total score between 4 Continents and World Team Trophy - his season’s best is one point behind Hanyu’s - far outstrips the improvements he made during that time.

As to the three juniors you mentioned, I do agree Tomoki is one to watch. But he’s the only one of them who landed clean quads in international competition last year. Neither Alexei or Camden showed much this season, and their SB scores were quite low.

You are speaking of the GPF [not GP series] and 4CCs? Who of the retirees has medalled at those competitions not including Abbott or Brown [my whole argument was about the 2018 retirees]? I honestly don't recall and am just curious.

Hiwatashi has it going on, and I think Krasnozhon just needed time to get over his injury. Torgashev's Spring Trophy programs was marvelous, so we will see.

 

[Carolla5501]

Never mind!

 

[rosewood]

ビンセント・ゾウが浜田コーチに師事　紀平も指導、世界選手権後に正式依頼／フィギュア

　フィギュアスケートの世界選手権男子銅メダルのビンセント・ゾウ（米国）が昨年１２月のグランプリ（ＧＰ）ファイナル女子で初出場優勝した紀平梨花（関大ＫＦＳＣ）を教える浜田美栄コーチに師事することが２５日、関係者への取材で分かった。米コロラドスプリングズの練習拠点で指導するタミー・ガンビル氏とともにメインコーチを務めるという。同日に木下グループがゾウと所属契約を結んだと発表した。

www.sanspo.com

This Japanese article says Japanese media contacted someone around Vincent Zhou and it was revealed that Zhou works under Coach Hamada. Both Hamada and Gambill will work as his main coaches. It also says Kinoshita Group (a Japanese company that @YukiNieve posted earlier on this thread) signed an affiliate contract with Zhou.
_

As Hamada has taught him for a while, it's not surprising to me that he'll work under Hamada from now on. However, it was a big surprise to me that Kinoshita signed an affiliate contract with Zhou. It's like a contract which Hanyu signed with ANA or Shoma signed with Toyota. Kinoshita is one of the crown sponsors of Japanese big events such as Japan Open (Carnival on Ice). Kinoshita used to support many Japanese ice dancers and pairs skaters. One thing I remember was Kinoshita didn't support Mervin Tran even though they supported Narumi Takahashi. At the time I assumed it's Kinoshita's policy that they support skaters who has Japanese citizenship. So it's a big surprise to me that they support Zhou who doesn't skate for Japan nor doesn't live in Japan. Perhaps things have changed since then. Being supported by Kinoshita can mean a lot for Zhou when he participates in events in Japan. Good for him.

 

[Sylvia]

Vincent's latest news, as revealed by the Japanese media (he will be coached by Mie Hamada & Tammy Gambill and will attend Brown University this fall) is posted in its own news thread now: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...amada-helps-vincent-zhou-find-success.105538/

ETA: Thanks for copying over your post, @rosewood!

Replying to @olympic's question:

You are speaking of the GPF [not GP series] and 4CCs? Who of the retirees has medalled at those competitions not including Abbott or Brown [my whole argument was about the 2018 retirees]? I honestly don't recall and am just curious.

4CC:
2010 Rippon (gold, coming back from 7th in SP)
2012 Miner (bronze)
2015 Farris (silver)

 

[Tavi]

You are speaking of the GPF [not GP series] and 4CCs? Who of the retirees has medalled at those competitions not including Abbott or Brown [my whole argument was about the 2018 retirees]? I honestly don't recall and am just curious.

Hiwatashi has it going on, and I think Krasnozhon just needed time to get over his injury. Torgashev's Spring Trophy programs was marvelous, so we will see.

Yes, I was talking about the GPF (won around 2010/2011 by Jeremy Abbott) and 4CC medals (thanks @Sylvia for providing that info).

To be honest, my reaction was first and foremost to your initial statement, that “Nathan and Vincent are way above what any US man achieved in the past decade,” which is a blanket statement and doesn’t make any mention of who did or did not retire in 2018.

Since you’re talking about the past decade, you have to include Lysacek. You also have to include all of the other skaters (active and retired) from the last decade, including Jason, Jeremy, Adam, and Ross Miner, all of whom have medaled at the championship level. I agree that with respect to winning and being competitive at the very top, Nathan has surpassed achievements by all of those guys except Evan. I would say that right now, Evan’s and Nathan’s achievements are roughly equal, with the caveat that Nathan is still really young and when all is said and done, his achievements may far surpass Evan’s. But right now, I don’t think they do. Yes he has more quads than Lysacek did, but it’s not really relevant because you didn’t need a lot of quads to win in 2010.

I think it’s way too soon to evaluate Vincent, but IMO he does not currently stand head and shoulders above skaters like Jason, Jeremy, Adam, and Ross Miner, particularly when you look at the whole of his senior career, which hasn’t been all that impressive over all. He’s won a single World bronze medal and a single 4CC bronze medal. His scores weren’t particularly high at either comp, and he was arguably helped by the tech calling and by fact that other guys faltered. Yeah he didn’t get a single < call and scored 299 at WTT but is that gonna carry over to next season? If working with Hamada results in real improvements, maybe so. Only time will tell.

As to your argument that we have depth based on the guys coming up from juniors who you think will strive to achieve what all the 2018 retirees have done (did I get that right? ?) I think that kind of misses the point. Whatever they might do in the future (and I hope they do wonderful things) only Tomoki has shown anything as a senior. In contrast, in the last few years we had quite a few guys who delivered at a pretty consistently high level, medaled on the GP, made the World Team, etc. The men moving up to seniors next season are still unknowns, as are the guys behind them. So right now it feels to me like we’re lacking depth. In six months, though, I may think differently.

 

[aftershocks]

Here are some photos of Jason enjoying himself at the Great Wall of China with Team Orser (plus Boyang Jin & Yang Jin): https://www.instagram.com/p/BzDdGmXnyJx/

Those are nice pics against an ancient backdrop. I don't recognize a lot of people. The blond woman does not look like either Jason's Mom or Tracy Wilson. Who is she? And is that Dai Takahashi in the left foreground in the first pic? Is he training with Orser? From your post, I guess it's Yang Jin, who I am not familiar with, but he sure looks like Dai.

 

[Sylvia]

The blond woman does not look like either Jason's Mom or Tracy Wilson. Who is she?

Paige Aistrop, who coaches at the Cricket club and is a spin specialist. Yang JIN (male pair skater) is left bottom. The other skaters tagged by Jason in the first photo are Canadians: Conrad Orzel (both arms up in the back), his younger sister Amelia (next to Orser/Aistrop), and next to her with cap & sunglasses is Corey Circelli (junior singles/ice dance).

 

[aftershocks]

Are you serious? I know everyone is in the biggest rush they can be to forget him, but this paragraph is just an insult.

Everyone is trying very hard to forget that Max saw this coming three years before Nathan even made his Senior debut at Nationals. He got punished for it, denigrated, rejected, even had people gloat when he missed the Olympic team, all the while the USFS shoved their heads up their asses about the importance of quads.

Nathan has said he was inspired by Max. The rush to forget him is horrible. The rush to erase him from the achievements of the US men is just as bad.

So sorry misskarne. Max Aaron should never ever be overlooked. The U.S. has had so many guys with depth, quite a few of them have been overlooked in a number of recent posts.

Meanwhile, please keep your britches on. Max is and will be fine. I shouldn't have forgotten to mention him among the other quad guys, because he was definitely a quad pacesetter which helped him win his U.S. national championship in 2013. Max definitely deserved to win more and to be better respected internationally, and to be given more credit for his contributions. I wouldn't ever insult Max intentionally. I even figured I might have been forgetting someone, and that was a huge oversight on my part. None of us are perfect or have perfect recall when posting off-the-cuff. Like I said, try to hold yourself together about this and not rush to judgment every time you perceive Max is being somehow slighted and insulted.

I miss Max Aaron, and I him!

 

[aftershocks]

So it's a big surprise to me that they support Zhou who doesn't skate for Japan nor doesn't live in Japan. Perhaps things have changed since then. Being supported by Kinoshita can mean a lot for Zhou when he participates in events in Japan.

It must be Vincent's talent and potential, especially coupled with Mie Hamada's backing and support which clearly has been an important ingredient in Vincent cleaning up his URs and making that leap to a bronze medal at Worlds.

Thanks to you and Sylvia for sharing this wonderful news for Vincent.

 

[Tahuu]

Tahuu, I mentioned that I went to an Ivy only because I felt it was relevant to this particular conversation. As I’ve done in one or two others. If you want to know my reasoning on that, just ask.

While I’m not gonna say that no kid will ever, ever be inspired by hearing that World Champion Nathan Chen is going to Yale, I don’t think there are a lot of kids posting on FSU, so I don’t find it a very persuasive argument. Mention it once or twice here and on NBC, okay - it’s great he got into Yale, and it should be celebrated. But after that...enough. The brand names we’re associated with may be impressive initially and open doors, but in the end, it’s who we and what we’re capable of that counts, not whether we went to Yale or Triton Community College. JMO.

In light of Vincent’s Brown news I want to say it’s not comparable talking about yours and elite athletes’ schools. Using you as a counter example is not relevant.

It’s not about Yale or Ivies. The message is - for more life options young skaters and kids in general should not neglect school and focus on their sports only.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Nathan is not the first skater to attend a top school while skating, and he won't be the last. Still, his huge success in combining both has indeed been impressive, notable, and influential. As usual, there are other influences and other reasons why other skaters are seeking higher education while still skating. But surely Nathan's success has been inspirational and a positive development which other young athletes look up to and aspire to emulate.

... your initial statement [olympic], that 'Nathan and Vincent are way above what any US man achieved in the past decade,' ... is a blanket statement...

ITA that is a blanket statement which doesn't take into account so many factors. Just because there were U.S. guys who weren't consistent with quads, does not mean they didn't have them at all or that they weren't competitive internationally and highly skilled stylistically and artistically. At the moment, Jeremy Abbott's talent and body of work completely rivals that of Nathan and Vincent. The major difference of course is that Nathan and Vincent have more years ahead of them and they have more quads and can land them with consistency, which is the name of the game in men's figure skating. And they skate in a different era than Abbott who was unfortunate to never medal at Worlds, especially when his prodigious talent could have copped him gold at 2010 Olympics. Such an accomplishment would have required the situation being more in Abbott's favor though. He unfortunately peaked that year at U.S. Nationals, and Lysacek was fed favorite, coached by legendary Frank Carroll. In any case, Abbott's creative abilities and danceability on the ice are unsurpassed. Abbott is unique in his own special way.

And lest I get called out again , I want to point out that IMO Max Aaron had so much to offer that wasn't fully realized because he tended to be dismissed artistically, which wasn't fair. I wish Max had not tried so hard to prove he could be gracefully artistic. He could have just have worked diligently on smoothing out and refining his aesthetic, but without trying to follow a ballet aesthetic, or fall into the trap of comparing himself to guys like Adam and Jason. Much like Elvis Stojko, Max Aaron had his own unique personality and physicality that he should have explored more, believed in more and presented more fully on the ice with his own rockin' authenticity. I wanted that so much for Max. ((Sigh)) But at least we still have the body of work Max did contribute, and it's memorable.

 

[aftershocks]

Whatever they might do in the future (and I hope they do wonderful things) only Tomoki has shown anything as a senior. In contrast, in the last few years we had quite a few guys who delivered at a pretty consistently high level, medaled on the GP, made the World Team, etc. The men moving up to seniors next season are still unknowns, as are the guys behind them. So right now it feels to me like we’re lacking depth. In six months, though, I may think differently.

But as the rest of your comment implies, it's way too soon to be making definitive statements like 'only Tomoki has shown anything as a senior...' Just as you mentioned about someone else's observation comparing several skaters from different eras, you too are making a 'blanket statement' about Tomoki vs his U.S. peers.

I guess that proves it's the off-season and we are all in bubbling excitement, anticipation mode and are antsy. We can't know what's going to pan out for any skater, and that's why we watch.

 

[BittyBug]

At the moment, Jeremy Abbott's talent and body of work completely rivals that of Nathan and Vincent.

In what universe?

Chen:
2x World champion
1 x 4CC champion
2x GPF champion
4 GP golds

Abbott:
Highest world finish was 5th
Highest 4CC finish was 3rd
1x GPF champion
3 GP golds

No, Abbott's talent and body of work does not rival that of Nathan Chen. He may be a tad ahead of Zhou but Nathan Chen long ago left Abbott's record in the dust.

 

[aftershocks]

In what universe?

Okay, okay, minus all the stats, I'm purely talking talent and overall career. Plus, I did qualify by acknowledging that Nathan and Vincent are at the beginning of their careers and they already have World medals, which Abbott never achieved.

So I stand by the fact that Jeremy Abbott has a unique talent aesthetically which rivals that of Nathan and Vincent (and especially Vincent, since Nathan is truly at the moment in a universe apart from most skaters, as I mentioned earlier). It makes sense that Abbott by this point has a more mature and extensive body of work. Obviously, the younger guys' careers are not over yet, and that's wonderful for us fans.

It's not really that productive to try and compare skaters who bring their own unique strengths to the table. But it's always happening in these threads, so I too get sucked into doing so.

Anyway, Abbott was fortunate in some respects to compete under-the-radar at the tail end of the Evan-Johnny era. But Abbott was unfortunate in a number of other respects re the quad taking off in importance, his having slight nerves in his sp at 2010 Olympics which ended up making U.S. fed look at him askance and overlook him when he needed the vote of confidence most. In the end, Abbott is known for suffering competitively in big moments, but that should not overshadow his prodigious accomplishments and his memorable body of work (albeit sans the impressive hardware stats at the big cojones comps ).

 

[Alexa]

I don’t understand the Yale hate. Nathan seldom wears any Yale related whenever there is TV camera. He seldom initiated Yale topic in his interviews. He only mentioned he was going to college or tried to stay at the top in both skating and school. I don’t remember how many times he said he is just a regular student at Yale surrounded by lots of students with great accomplishments in different fields when asked in interviews. When posters posted something in forums wondering what his schedule is like, it is more about the impact of his school schedule on his GP selection, or if he would have in person training with Raf, which might impact his performances, or the likelihood of him bringing medals home. It is true Nathan is not the only person skating and pursuing school, but he might be the first world champion who mostly train by himself and trying distance coaching. There are lots curiosities concerning the viability of distant training, especially the first year. As long as he is at school and finishes top 3 at worlds, there is always going to be schedule questions in GP assignment selections. Wish him out of school or wish him off the podium if you don’t want to read about school schedule for GP related discussion.

Nathan brought home so many gold medals in such a short period of time, maximizing the WC slots in every competition he went to and helped greatly with WTT no matter what health condition he is in, while managing to be as humble as possible. He gestured The TV camera to Jason when the camera is on him. I seriously don’t understand where the hate is from. I understand the hatred toward the media obsession, but shouldn’t that be directed at NBC or whoever the commentator is? The Yale topic is only adding pressure to him as indicated in the NYT article in March.

 

[Tavi]

I don’t understand the Yale hate. Nathan seldom wears any Yale related whenever there is TV camera. He seldom initiated Yale topic in his interviews. He only mentioned he was going to college or tried to stay at the top in both skating and school. I don’t remember how many times he said he is just a regular student at Yale surrounded by lots of students with great accomplishments in different fields when asked. When posters posted something in forums wondering what his schedule is like, it is more about the impact of his school schedule on his GP selection, or if he would in person training with Raf, which might impact his performances or the likelihood of him bringing medals home. It is true Nathan is not the only person skating and pursuing school, but he might be the first world champion who mostly train by himself and trying distance coaching. There are lots curiosities concerning the viability of distant training, especially the first year.
Nathan brought home so many gold medals in such a short period of time, maximizing the WC slots in every competition he went to and helped greatly with WTT no matter what health condition he is in, while managing to be as humble as possible. He gestured The TV camera to Jason when the camera is on him. I seriously don’t understand where the hate is from. I understand the hatred toward the media obsession, but shouldn’t that be directed at NBC or whoever the commentator is?

Did you read my prior post? Or el henry’s? Neither one of us said or implied that Nathan brags about being at Yale. I’m sure Nathan is a modest kid who doesn’t brag about any of his accomplishments. My originally off-hand comment that I have grown to hate the word Yale stemmed not from anything Nathan himself has done but from (1) unnecessary overuse of his school’s name on this and other forums by many posters; and (2) overhype of the fact that Nathan is going to Yale by NBC, Phil Hersh (a Yale grad himself) and the rest of the media.

 

[Alexa]

Did you read my prior post? Or el henry’s? Neither one of us said or implied that Nathan brags about being at Yale. I’m sure Nathan is a modest kid who doesn’t brag about any of his accomplishments. My originally off-hand comment that I have grown to hate the word Yale stemmed not from anything Nathan himself has done but from (1) unnecessary overuse of his school’s name on this and other forums by many posters; and (2) overhype of the fact that Nathan is going to Yale by NBC, Phil Hersh (a Yale grad himself) and the rest of the media.

Yes, I read your replies. As I said at the end of my post, the comments better be directed at whoever did the hype, not here in this thread. Neither Phil or NBC, CBC, Europe Sports or Japanese media who has lot more coverage of Nathan than in the states would come to read the posts here to curtail the amount of hype. TBH, I even don’t post Nathan news here just don’t want to see too much Nathan discussions to avoid reactions like too “many Nathan discussions”.

And I phrased the “Yale” hate, not Nathan hate, plus I was explaining the “Yale schedule” mentioning in your original post. People wondering it because it impacts his GP assignment, Which has nothing to do with hype. As a matter of fact, I forgot to mention it even impacts his SOI stops. There are FS fans who had to fly to the cities where he performed since he cannot make it to every city because of his schedule.

Also, to address the post about no mentioning of Max and Vincent’s schooling in this thread. There were indeed Vincent school discussions back when he visited Brown. He was not in school the past season, Phil did ask him about school before Nationals. As to Max, he already retired before the season started, i don’t think it is anybody discounted the fact he managed to balance school and skating. The same goes with Alex Johnson.

 

[aftershocks]

Nathan Chen long ago left Abbott's record in the dust.

Nathan has the potential to leave everyone in the dust, and he already has in terms of record-breaking quads. However, let's be reasonable that hardware-wise Nathan's current GP record only just surpasses Abbott's career GP record. So there's a bit more dust ahead for Nathan to bury Abbott's record under, which I'm quite sure will happen.

At his first Olympics, Abbott could have won gold coming in as U.S. champion with two brilliant programs. At his first Olympics, Nathan was expected to challenge for gold but came in 17th in the sp. Abbott faltered only slightly in his sp (less so than Nathan did in his Olympic sp) and landed in 15th, pulling up to 7th in the fp. Nathan possibly could have been given the benefit of the doubt by the judges and not dropped so far down in the sp standings. But it provided Nathan with the rock-bottom wake-up call he needed to loosen him up to where he attempted six quads and pulled up to first place in the fp and 5th overall.

 

[Tavi]

Yes, I read your replies. As I said at the end of my post, the comments better be directed at whoever did the hype, not here in this thread. Neither Phil or NBC, CBC, Europe Sports or Japanese media who has lot more coverage of Nathan than in the states would come to read the posts here to curtail the amount of hype. TBH, I even don’t post Nathan news here just don’t want to see too much Nathan discussions to avoid reactions like too “many Nathan discussions”.

And I phrased the “Yale” hate, not Nathan hate, plus I was explaining the “Yale schedule” mentioning in your original post. People wondering it because it impacts his GP assignment, Which has nothing to do with hype. As a matter of fact, I forgot to mention it even impacts his SOI stops. There are FS fans who had to fly to the cities where he performed since he cannot make it to every city because of his schedule.

Alexa, thank you for your comments. I see you’re a new member here. While I appreciate your thoughts, I don’t think there’s any reason for me not to express my feelings about the word “Yale” here in this thread. This thread is for all US men, and all of us have different ideas about what we want to discuss. If you don’t like reading comments like mine, perhaps would enjoy Nathan’s fan thread, which you can find here:

Nathan Chen Fan Thread #2

I noticed it was time to start a new thread for Nathan. Maybe the old one could be locked - although not forgotten. https://youtu.be/2UXZ1cR1Qo0?t=19

www.fsuniverse.net

You might also like Nathan’s fan thread on the Golden Skate forums:

Nathan Chen

U.S. figure skater Nathan Chen was born on May 5, 1999, in Salt Lake City, Utah. He is the 2022 Olympic champion, the five-time US champion (2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021), the 2018, 2019 and 2021 World champion, the 2017-2018, 2018-2019, and 2019-2020 Grand Prix Final champion, a bronze medalist...

www.goldenskate.com

 

[nathanfan]

Nathan himself is pretty low-key about Yale - and he has mentioned that someone in his residential college won an Oscar this year. He seems quite self aware - he’s one among many accomplished students at his school.

Max actually helped push Nathan towards 4Lz - I think he said that he asked Nathan if he could do one, and Nathan said he would try it - and managed to be successful on his first try. Nathan has said he was inspired by the guys a little older than him - Shoma (4F) and Boyang (4Lz).

 

[aftershocks]

Somewhat OT, I just read that Sasha Obama reportedly turned down Yale in order to attend the University of Michigan. I wonder if it will be the same campus where Charlie and Meryl are enrolled? I'm not sure whether either have completed their requirements. Malia Obama attends Harvard. Maybe Sasha wasn't looking for the intensity of an ivy league experience, coupled with being the daughter of a former U.S. president.

 

[Alexa]

Alexa, thank you for your comments. I see you’re a new member here. While I appreciate your thoughts, I don’t think there’s any reason for me not to express my feelings about the word “Yale” here in this thread. This thread is for all US men, and all of us have different ideas about what we want to discuss. If you don’t like reading comments like mine, perhaps would enjoy Nathan’s fan thread, which you can find here:

Nathan Chen

U.S. figure skater Nathan Chen was born on May 5, 1999, in Salt Lake City, Utah. He is the 2022 Olympic champion, the five-time US champion (2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021), the 2018, 2019 and 2021 World champion, the 2017-2018, 2018-2019, and 2019-2020 Grand Prix Final champion, a bronze medalist...

www.goldenskate.com

Thanks for the links. The ID is new doesn’t mean I just started following this thread. I don’t like typing, so I don’t usually feel like posting unless I feel strongly to clarify something or happen to have plenty of time that day as today I am waiting in my dentist’s office when I made my first post today. I didn’t post anything when you object to Nathan’s costume discussion after nationals. I didn’t post anything when there was post complaining about excessive media coverage of Nathan’s sickness right before worlds, even though that sickness discussion was more about why he didn’t fly back Lakewood to train with Raf, as reported right after nationals. And I do appreciate El Henry speaking for Nathan on several occasions in other threads.

I don’t mean to police what you are posting. 1. I am trying to explain that most Yale schedule discussions are related to his skating schedule, which is unavoidable as long as he is in school and he is on the podium. His GP selection is affecting other skaters’ assignments, that is why you would see the Yale schedule thing.

2. The complaints about excessive media coverage of Yale won’t stop anything unless they are directed at people or organizations who did the hype, it would probably only trigger responses from fans like me. It is not first time I read comments about too many Nathan discussions on the men’s thread.

3. The original reply also meant to comment why no discussion of other skaters who did well academically. I got distracted to comment on that so I included my reply in the 2nd post.

I agree with you that everyone has the freedom to post anything he or she feels like to as long as it is related to the US men, that also include me to post my reaction to some posts I feel strongly to clarify.

As to who pushed Nathan, Plushenko and Yagudin were the reasons he wanted to be in figure skating. Later on it is Yuzuru, Patrick and Javi before Boyang came with his 4lz. He credited Shoma for inspiring him to try 4f. In a Japanese interview last year, he credited Yuzuru, Patrick, Javi, Boyang, Shoma, Misha for all their contributions to quads.

 

[olympic]

Yes, I was talking about the GPF (won around 2010/2011 by Jeremy Abbott) and 4CC medals (thanks @Sylvia for providing that info).

To be honest, my reaction was first and foremost to your initial statement, that “Nathan and Vincent are way above what any US man achieved in the past decade,” which is a blanket statement and doesn’t make any mention of who did or did not retire in 2018.

Since you’re talking about the past decade, you have to include Lysacek. You also have to include all of the other skaters (active and retired) from the last decade, including Jason, Jeremy, Adam, and Ross Miner, all of whom have medaled at the championship level. I agree that with respect to winning and being competitive at the very top, Nathan has surpassed achievements by all of those guys except Evan. I would say that right now, Evan’s and Nathan’s achievements are roughly equal, with the caveat that Nathan is still really young and when all is said and done, his achievements may far surpass Evan’s. But right now, I don’t think they do. Yes he has more quads than Lysacek did, but it’s not really relevant because you didn’t need a lot of quads to win in 2010.

I think it’s way too soon to evaluate Vincent, but IMO he does not currently stand head and shoulders above skaters like Jason, Jeremy, Adam, and Ross Miner, particularly when you look at the whole of his senior career, which hasn’t been all that impressive over all. He’s won a single World bronze medal and a single 4CC bronze medal. His scores weren’t particularly high at either comp, and he was arguably helped by the tech calling and by fact that other guys faltered. Yeah he didn’t get a single < call and scored 299 at WTT but is that gonna carry over to next season? If working with Hamada results in real improvements, maybe so. Only time will tell.

As to your argument that we have depth based on the guys coming up from juniors who you think will strive to achieve what all the 2018 retirees have done (did I get that right? ?) I think that kind of misses the point. Whatever they might do in the future (and I hope they do wonderful things) only Tomoki has shown anything as a senior. In contrast, in the last few years we had quite a few guys who delivered at a pretty consistently high level, medaled on the GP, made the World Team, etc. The men moving up to seniors next season are still unknowns, as are the guys behind them. So right now it feels to me like we’re lacking depth. In six months, though, I may think differently.

Since we were talking about a certain lack of depth in the middle for US men, I was simply matching the recent retirees (as of the past year only) with the newcomers who are essentially replacing them, and speculating that their potential will get them there. I personally believe they will. Abbott and Lysacek are long gone and just did not figure into my equation. I will leave it there. We obviously look at things differently

 

[Tavi]

Well, Alexa, thanks for clarification. To my knowledge, though, I have never complained about reports of Nathan’s health before Worlds.

By the way, I have no problem with people discussing Nathan’s school schedule. My only point is that in normal conversation, most people don’t constantly bring up the name of someone’s school, and it’s done a lot here. I find it unnecessary and tiresome, but that is my own quirk. I have never ever told anyone talking about Nathan to stop mentioning Yale or his school schedule, and I never will; the most I’ve ever done was say in this thread that I’m tired of hearing the word Yale. As people are now probably tired of reading about my quirk - and as it’s really off topic for this thread - I’m going to stop mentioning it now.

As to the excessive media hype, I solved it by getting a subscription to NBC Sports Gold, which is commentary free most of the time.

Cheers.