U.S. Ladies [#29]: Skating with Adjusted Vision

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giselle23 said:
Jeremy is a four-time US Champion. He just couldn't put it all together for the big events--Worlds and the Olympics. He did make the US Olympic team twice, which is a pretty big accomplishment by itself.
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I was so bummed after US Nationals 2010 that he didn't take that performance to the Olympics. He would have won the gold medal there, and I would have been much happier than Lysacek winning.
 
Theatregirl1122 said:
There are very few Russian skaters that can be knocked for speed or edge work. Posture, sure.
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Speed I'd agree with, but their edgework is really blah. Medvedeva jumped a lot of turns, Alina and Trusova have extremely flat edges and as a result don't hit all the turns correctly (particularly in transitions - though they do miss turns choreographed in step sequences as well), and though newer Eteri skaters are a little better, they still aren't nearly up to the standard of what skating's former ladies podium faves - even as recently as Mao and Yuna - could do with edges. Do I expect them to be Jason Brown or ice dance level of edges? No. But I at least expect them to be able to do turns correctly.
 
clairecloutier said:
Phil Jackson in the NBA is a famous example of an “average” player who became an exceptional coach. I think quite a few of the successful NBA coaches fall into this category.
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There are many coaches like that in every sport. If we just stick to figure skating, Frank Carroll never made a big mark as a competitor but is one of the best coaches of all time.
 
Willin said:
Speed I'd agree with, but their edgework is really blah. Medvedeva jumped a lot of turns, Alina and Trusova have extremely flat edges and as a result don't hit all the turns correctly (particularly in transitions - though they do miss turns choreographed in step sequences as well), and though newer Eteri skaters are a little better, they still aren't nearly up to the standard of what skating's former ladies podium faves - even as recently as Mao and Yuna - could do with edges. Do I expect them to be Jason Brown or ice dance level of edges? No. But I at least expect them to be able to do turns correctly.
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It must really hurt, the prospects for int'l podiums for US Ladies, other wise you would not be digging out, in the "US ladies" topic, the non-existent problems with "russian ladies" who are nearly taking over the podiums in the last 5 years.... :D
 
^^^^The only reason the Japanese don't appear to have the politik is because their skaters are so inconsistent and the judges got no choice but to mark them down but they do have it. After all it takes pretty strong politiking skills to get the judges to turn a blind eye to Satoko's mini baby ur jumps as much as they did.
 
Theatregirl1122 said:
There are very few Russian skaters that can be knocked for speed or edge work. Posture, sure.
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I do wonder if the US fixation on posture and carriage holds them back a bit. Like physically, focusing on carriage must cut into speed, right?
 
Coco said:
I do wonder if the US fixation on posture and carriage holds them back a bit. Like physically, focusing on carriage must cut into speed, right?
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But US ladies aren't considered slow are they? I always thought they were at least considered in the decent/average category which the majority of skaters are. Gracie has wonderful posture and carriage and her speed is great.

If you can find fault in the USFSA its they tend to favor/prop skaters who have a artistic style they like even if they aren't the strongest jumpers (Agnes anyone?) and its sometimes at the expense of skaters who are much stronger jumpers but aren't the most pretty of skaters. I think while they have started putting more attention on jumps recently they haven't totally abandoned their former way of thinking (pretty ice princess music box type) and some of the complaints Tonya Harding had way back still exist. Sometimes jumps still feel like an afterthought to pretty skating and that's a problem
 
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Brenda_Bottems said:
Just because the Russians win events (with politicized and inflated presentation scores,mind you) does not mean we have to endorse,enjoy,or extol their brand of gymnastics on ice in the US LADIES thread,dear.

Merry Christmas,
BB
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Then why don't you and a few others just ENJOY the US Ladies skating issues in "US Ladies" forum topic..... :lol:
 
NAOTMAA said:
If you can find fault in the USFSA its they tend to favor/prop skaters who have a artistic style they like even if they aren't the strongest jumpers (Agnes anyone?) and its sometimes at the expense of skaters who are much stronger jumpers but aren't the most pretty of skaters. I think while they have started putting more attention on jumps recently they haven't totally abandoned their former way of thinking (pretty ice princess music box type) and some of the complaints Tonya Harding had way back still exist. Sometimes jumps still feel like an afterthought to pretty skating and that's a problem
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I think USFS pushed Agnes Zawadzki because she knocked it out of the park at nationals with strong jumps and not because of her style. She would likely be a victim to BOW if she was skating now because she never seemed to duplicate her national skates on the international scene and someone like Gao, who did medal internationally, would be favored instead. But otherwise, I agree with you. Case in point, it's very clear that USFS is pushing Bell over Tennell even though Tennell is a much stronger jumper.
 
Maybe it's more fair to say USFSA / NBC have been promoting Bell more than they promote Tennell, despite Tennell's better international results going back to 2018.
 
I mean to be fair, even people on FSU have been knocking on Tennell since 2017-18 and haven't let up. So if NBC marketing team finds more value in Bell, it's not like it came out of nowhere.

That said, I've always like Tennell and her lack of media flair. I was craving quiet stability by the time she came along.
 
clairecloutier said:
What is the evidence for USFS pushing Bell over Tennell? Honestly curious, as that has not been my impression.
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Tennell definitely got USFS' attention and support in the Olympic season, but it appears to be dropping. Tennell skates much more like a Russian, she has 2 triple-triples in her LP, more intricate choreography and actual transitions. Bell has more charisma, but empty pretty programs and no 3-3 in her LP. If USFS valued what the international scene is valuing, then Tennell would get a bigger PCS boost for her SS and TR (and frankly for her jumping, too) vis-a-vis Bell. And NBC seems right on board with Bell. Skate America felt like an eagerly awaiting crowning of Bell to me. YMMV.

ETA: I do like both skaters and am not trying to put either down.
 
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Re Bell vs. Tennell and media/federation support. I am "camp Tennell" from day one, and never got into Bell from day one even before Tennell's appearance. But from marketing/media point of view (imo) Bell is more photogenic and more of a "cute typical american girl". Tennell, on the other hand, is more of an acquired taste, or rather "for those few who appreciate atypical beauty".
Bell you can put on any product package.
Tennell, not so...
 
Tinami Amori said:
Re Bell vs. Tennell and media/federation support. I am "camp Tennell" from day one, and never got into Bell from day one even before Tennell's appearance. But from marketing/media point of view (imo) Bell is more photogenic and more of a "cute typical american girl". Tennell, on the other hand, is more of an acquired taste, or rather "for those few who appreciate atypical beauty".
Bell you can put on any product package.
Tennell, not so...
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I don’t think that’s true. She is very pretty. She just doesn’t have the “it” factor for whatever reason, compared to Mariah. Not everyone has it and that doesn’t really mean anything. See Ashley Wagner pre-2012. Bradie needs to take a page from Ashley’s book as far as reinventing herself, IMO. I’m not sure what she could do though.
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
I don’t why they r pushing Bell more. She has zero 3/3 in free and is UNacceptable

Even 20 yrs ago Sarah had two of them like Tennell does.

Bell hasn’t made a GPF where Tennell has. Tennell seems to have a bit more street cred internationally though.
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Bell is pretty much the stereotypical "ice princess on the music box" type of skater that the USFSA always loves. Its the style they have pushed their ladies to be since Tenley Albright won the first US Olympic gold in 1956. It's very dated and stuck in the past but the USFSA still push it as the gold standard.

When I watch Bell's skating these days I think of Norma Desmond trying to apply her silent film acting style to the talkies and not realizing film acting has moved on. Hollywood moved on and rejected Norma but USFSA have yet to realize skating has moved on and still embrace the dated. Bell's 136 FS at Skate America was probably one of the biggest scoring jokes in COP history and if she scores anything like that internationally its because the USFSA are really pushing her hard
 
I like watching both Tennell and Bell. Since Bradie started working with Benoit Richaud, her programs and impact on the ice have improved greatly. I quite enjoy watching her now. Like I saw her live last year at Skate America, and she had some of my favorite performances among the ladies. She doesn't fit that traditional mold of ladies' skating, but I like what she's doing and I personally find her charismatic.

I think what's driving all the attention on Mariah is that she has an ability to share joy and connect with audiences that's quite rare these days. My mom, who is a casual skating fan, really likes Mariah Bell. Mariah is the kind of skating she wants to see: Beautiful, emotional, and yes, traditionally feminine, I suppose (for better or worse). As much as that style may have gone out of favor under the current judging system, it's still quite in favor with actual audiences, I think.
 
I’m so tired of the whole ice princess thing. It feels like the US is the only country pushing hard just on looks. They loved Nancy Kerrigan but there were stronger skaters like Yamaguchi and Harding at the same time. Same for Czisny, all looks no substance
 
Part of it is expectation. Bradie was branded "the most consistent girl in the US" (thanks a lot NBC) leading up to the Olympics, so every time she's missed a jump since then has been a let down. Mariah on the other hand was so inconsistent she didn't even make the team, so when she suddenly started skating relatively cleanly after the Olympics it was a nice surprise. They're both tough to watch this season because we count on Bradie for solid jumps and she doesn't have those, and we count on Mariah for good programs and she doesn't have those either. Plenty of time to get their acts together for next season, though obviously everything is harder than normal. Mariah I think is winning favor because she's sort of the opposite of the Russian skaters we see so much of - dodgy jumps but always looks like she loves skating, loves her music, loves performing, etc. Happy is always easier to like than serious. Bradie at one point looked like her triple triples were so solid she was ready to start trying triple axels and quads...and then didn't. She's also missing a signature style or iconic program. Mariah really had a "coming out" moment with her 2018-19 programs and I so hope some choreographer figures out what that could be for Bradie next year. I've seen her as many times as Mariah this season but I have no idea what she's skating to.
 
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