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aftershocks

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With Eastern Sectionals now over, we can all breathe and finally say... GRACIE IS GOING TO NATIONALS.

I'm more pleased that Gracie is working on doing what makes her happy, and figuring things out for herself. Apparently, she didn't want to leave the sport without making an effort to see if she could get back into competitive form and make a bid for Nationals again. So hurrah! :cheer2:

But it's not about the Gracie of old, who was that amazing girl who couldn't get out of the box of golden 'Princess Grace' over-expectations everyone put her in, me included (e.g., comparing her looks to those of Grace Kelly; expecting her to bring U.S. ladies back to the top of the podium a la MK fashion).

In the fp at Sectionals, Gracie seemed to show more nerves, but she worked through them well, and I'm happy she made it back to Nationals. It reminds me of her twin sister, Carly (who didn't have Gracie's level of skating talent), working hard to simply get to Nationals at least once, and succeeding! It was a personal goal and milestone just for Carly herself.

I hope coming back to Nationals to compete will be just for Gracie herself to enjoy the experience without any expectations except being happy, doing her best, and having fun seeing some of her old friends.

Sara Bareilles fp song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53GIADHxVzM
...
It's not easy to know
I'm not anything like I used to be
Although it's true I was never attention's sweet center
I still remember that girl

She's imperfect but she tries
She is good but she lies
She is hard on herself
She is broken and won't ask for help

She is messy but she's kind
She is lonely most of the time
She is all of this mixed up
And baked in a beautiful pie
She is gone but she used to be mine

It's not what I asked for
Sometimes life just slips in through a back door
And carves out a person
And makes you believe it's all true …

If I'm honest I know I would give it all back
For a chance to start over
And rewrite an ending or two

For the girl that I knew...
To fight just a little
To bring back the fire in her eyes
That's been gone but used to be mine...

 

aftershocks

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a different angle that the tech panel saw

:p They need to stop with the 'different camera angle' excuses, and solve the issue. No excuses. The sport don't allow excuses from skaters, nor do skaters typically give any.

I watched Gracie's FS and when she finished and had that small smile, I teared up. Because it looked like she was proud of herself, and the smile came from her heart, and through her entire career I never saw her smile like that. When she won nationals, or medaled at GPs, or won the short at Worlds, she had that big performative smile but never actually looked happy, only relieved. This one was different.

Yep, she earned it, and this is a personal victory for herself. She's not doing this to fulfill the needs and expectations of others.
 
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sk8nlizard

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:p They need to stop with the 'different camera angle' excuses, and solve the issue. No excuses. The sport don't allow excuses from skaters, nor do skaters typically give any.



Yep, she earned it, and this is a personal victory for herself. She's not doing this to fulfill the needs and expectations of others.
It’s true though...the tech panel has it’s own camera at most events and it’s typically at the judging table. The camera(s) for spectators are not always, or normally there. The tech panel can only use that one cameras video, this is why some jumps/elements are placed strategically on the ice. Also why we as spectators see replays that are close and then get called clean. Obviously some are stricter and some more lenient callers, however the camera angle is a totally valid argument.
 

Vagabond

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I don't think broadcast audiences would be very happy if all they were allowed to see was the judges' feed. :shuffle:
 

aftershocks

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It’s true though...the tech panel has it’s own camera at most events and it’s typically at the judging table. The camera(s) for spectators are not always, or normally there. The tech panel can only use that one cameras video, this is why some jumps/elements are placed strategically on the ice. Also why we as spectators see replays that are close and then get called clean. Obviously some are stricter and some more lenient callers, however the camera angle is a totally valid argument.

It's not a matter of whether or not it's true and even less so whether it's a 'valid argument.' There isn't any argument anyway when judges' calls have the last word.

The point is: It's still an excuse, and someones in charge need to get the gumption and the motivation to put their heads together with broadcast networks and figure out how to make the technology work better for the sport, or give the benefit of the doubt to skaters when there's 'iffy' sight lines.
 

natsulian

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If Gracie does well enough at Nationals to place within the Top 8/10, I'm sure the US Federation will send her off to a "timely" Challenger event so she does not have to compete through Regionals and Sectionals next season. If Gracie manages to complete a 4 to 5 triple program and brings back the speed, improved choreography, and does not fall, I think judges will score her within the 175-180 range. Enough to place well but also enough to motivate her to work harder. Gracie's end goal is not clear, but based on past interviews, it seems as though she's bent on being back on the Worlds team and possibly making it to 2022 Beijing. I know it's premature to talk about something that's two years away, but it is exciting to see such a top echelon athlete re-starting the engines. Wherever the road takes her, I hope Gracie can look back and say, "I am proud of myself. I did everything I could and am proud of that fact." That, in my opinion, is worth more than gold.
 

aftershocks

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Let it play out... It's too tempting to get overly excited because Gracie has the talent, and she's always had the talent. Figure skating is a tough sport that takes a lot more than talent. And right now in order to win, it takes a teenybopper's bodily ability to rotate quads and 3-axels. IMO, Gracie's journey is about growth as a person through overcoming huge setbacks. As fans, we can learn some lessons too. I am trying to from everything that's happened to Gracie.

I hesitate to overindulge with over-analyses. There was way too much hype from the beginning which led to over-expectations, which swamped and overwhelmed this very talented, very vulnerable gorgeous, sweet and impressionable young lady. Maybe she would have had a chance to steadily thrive had she been in the shadow of a talented veteran who got the majority of the attention. But since she was more overall talented than Ashley, a lot of hopes were immediately placed on Gracie's shoulders, and the weight proved to be a burden anyone would have trouble coping with.

Allow Gracie to be happy, let her enjoy and have fun. For right now, it looks like Gracie is doing this because she truly loves skating and the hard work of training, although the competing was always a tough nut to crack. So just learning how to manage her competition nerves and enjoying being back in the arena is enough.

I hope Gracie looks overbearing media straight in the eye and answers from the hip, cutting off too much overdone fluff or attempts to use and abuse her story in some quarters, or over-inflate and aggrandize in other quarters.

Gracie's end goal is not clear, but based on past interviews, it seems as though she's bent on being back on the Worlds team and possibly making it to 2022 Beijing. I know it's premature to talk about something that's two years away, but it is exciting to see such a top echelon athlete re-starting the engines.

It'd be nice for Gracie to get back to the Olympics, and it's a valid goal for all skaters. Still, that's going to be tough. Incremental goals make more sense. In this current environment, as I said, I think it's a victory if Gracie learns how to manage her competitive nerves and skates clean within her current wheelhouse. I don't see her mastering quads and 3-axels at this stage, so she would have to steadily incorporate top level difficulty in triples and triple combos, along with putting together well-packaged programs. Can we just enjoy where she's at now, and how far she's come without jumping the gun?
 
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Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, T&M, P&C
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I read Michelle Kwan’s article about Alysa Liu in a magazine (Time issue has listed some stars). It is a good article. Alysa is the youngest ever US nationals champion. Michelle reminisces about her own first nationals where she won a silver.

My only complaint is that she says Alysa is the future of figure skating (because she landed a quad lutz in a competition). She is the future of US skating, IMO. Not figure skating in general, since we have seen two Russian ladies land multiple quads in their free programs twice, and they are taking the world by the storm.

Alysa deserves praise for her accomplishments. I just don’t feel that she is the future of figure skating. Others had already landed quad lutzes and triple axels before her. They were the future before Alysa.

Michelle came across as too nationalistic to me.
 

aftershocks

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Eh, Michelle can say whatever she wants. And I wonder if some of it wasn't written for her, or edited to fit the theme of the TIME profile. It's all part of the hype.

Every time, that's what we always hear blared about the next new phenom: "Future of the sport..." It's an overdone cliche, not only peculiar to figure skating. :yawn:

Albeit Alysa Liu is a bright, charming young lady with huge promise. But the p.r. fluff and obsessing is slightly overdone, and all part of an attempt to promote Liu's career and maybe jump start increased interest in ladies figure skating in the U.S., the discipline which has enjoyed the most success historically in the U.S. The jury is still out about increasing audience interest though. Getting Michelle's endorsement obviously makes sense. Still, some of the current elevating of Alysa because she has some boffo talent can be overdone, as per usual in figure skating.

Go check out the predictable gushing headlines on ISU's website post-Rostelecom Cup. :p Not untrue, but boring and overdone cliches, and hype ...

I'm looking for long term receipts, and more in-depth profiles, and under the surface insights into training regimens and what it takes in the daily lives of skaters behind-the-scenes, and more info about the various techniques and why there are so many variant techniques in figure skating, and how judges become judges in the first place. :sekret:

Plus @Vash01, MK is American, so I see nothing wrong about her being 'nationalistic,' as you term it. The piece is written for a U.S. publication. Russians are more than 'nationalistic' in their own right. And there are plenty of U.S. fans who love Russian skaters, so showing some love for U.S. skaters in a U.S. publication, should not be such a problem that you appear to be claiming.
 
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Sylvia

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Frau Muller

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I read Michelle Kwan’s article about Alysa Liu in a magazine (Time issue has listed some stars). It is a good article. Alysa is the youngest ever US nationals champion. Michelle reminisces about her own first nationals where she won a silver.

My only complaint is that she says Alysa is the future of figure skating (because she landed a quad lutz in a competition). She is the future of US skating, IMO. Not figure skating in general, since we have seen two Russian ladies land multiple quads in their free programs twice, and they are taking the world by the storm.

Alysa deserves praise for her accomplishments. I just don’t feel that she is the future of figure skating. Others had already landed quad lutzes and triple axels before her. They were the future before Alysa.

Michelle came across as too nationalistic to me.

Remember that this was written for the general (non-skating-savvy) public in the USA.
 

aftershocks

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There's a way to tell a skater's comeback story with sensitivity and insight in an entertaining and informative way without overdoing it or exploiting the subject matter and the person insensitively. But that calls for journalistic professionalism and thoughtfulness, not hype, gotcha queries, surface trivialities, and worn-out cliches...
 

skatingguy

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11,918
:lol:

No, they use a camera stationed where the Technical Panel is sitting. It would have about as much appeal to a general audience as a high-quality fan cam.
Oh, darn. I thought maybe we had the explanation for the calling of levels, rotations, and edges. ;)
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
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Just getting to be at a US Nationals is a great prize for Gracie. I normally hate media hype but I feel that this is one time when NBC should focus on a human interest story, as tastefully as can be done.
Oh I could not agree less. Let Gracie get there and compete without the hype, fan fair, & attention. Let the poor woman have her skating speak for itself.....and then if it goes well..............hype the hell out of it.
Gracie is not a story. She is a person. By all accounts she is still finding her way back. She does not IMO need media pressure, interviews, all that stuff. She just needs to come and skate.
 

Maximillian

RIP TA
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To be honest and not that I want this, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nationals is Gracie's swan song. Again, I could be wrong, but its just a suspicion that I have. I hope I'm wrong.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love!
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Oh I could not agree less. Let Gracie get there and compete without the hype, fan fair, & attention. Let the poor woman have her skating speak for itself.....and then if it goes well..............hype the hell out of it.
Gracie is not a story. She is a person. By all accounts she is still finding her way back. She does not IMO need media pressure, interviews, all that stuff. She just needs to come and skate.

I understand. I was thinking that the story of her comeback could be an inspiration to kids and young adults who may be going through similar eating disorders or depression.
 

sk8nlizard

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I expect it will be her swan song.
I imagine it depends more on how she places...if she manages a top 10 finish I think she Might stick with it, if it’s lower half I think she will say she has accomplished her comeback, made it to nationals and feels fulfilled. I also imagine a lot more goes into it, she’s starting to skate better, will she get some sponsors? If she’s finished what will she do to support herself? If she continues on the upward trajectory she might find a way to also make a living for herself again with skating. I don’t know Gracie, but now that she’s an adult and presumably funding her own life/skating, she has a lot to consider. Either way, I admire how far she has come and hope she is enjoying herself!
 

SkateFanBerlin

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I think the opposite. Gracie did Reg/Sec to feel how it is to compete. And, to measure her progress. I don't think she'll want to expose herself yet to TV, media, etc at this stage. She's just not ready; I think she'll opt out of Nationals.
 

Jarrett

Go Mirai!
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I read Michelle Kwan’s article about Alysa Liu in a magazine (Time issue has listed some stars). It is a good article. Alysa is the youngest ever US nationals champion. Michelle reminisces about her own first nationals where she won a silver.

My only complaint is that she says Alysa is the future of figure skating (because she landed a quad lutz in a competition). She is the future of US skating, IMO. Not figure skating in general, since we have seen two Russian ladies land multiple quads in their free programs twice, and they are taking the world by the storm.

Alysa deserves praise for her accomplishments. I just don’t feel that she is the future of figure skating. Others had already landed quad lutzes and triple axels before her. They were the future before Alysa.

Michelle came across as too nationalistic to me.
IMO you are thinking too much into that sentence. But also IMO Alysa is the future of figure skating because she is pushing technical content in figure skating and is younger. She is landing both the axel and lutz which other are not being done in the same programs (regardless of call controversies) and as a junior. The axel is an iconic jump because of it's very different entry. Neither of the two Russian's you are probably talking about (who knows, there are so many) were completing both of those jumps at her age. Also another reason she is the future is she can't compete on the senior level internationally for what another year or two? Those other skaters are definitely the present of figure skating.
 

Tinami Amori

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My only complaint is that she says Alysa is the future of figure skating (because she landed a quad lutz in a competition). She is the future of US skating, IMO. Not figure skating in general, since we have seen two Russian ladies land multiple quads in their free programs twice, and they are taking the world by the storm.

Alysa deserves praise for her accomplishments. I just don’t feel that she is the future of figure skating. Others had already landed quad lutzes and triple axels before her. They were the future before Alysa.

Michelle came across as too nationalistic to me.
Kwan said "Alysa is the future" not "Alysa is the only one in the future". Several girls including Alysa are doing x-jumps, and it is the future. Alysa is "part of that future"..... Even i did not see "nationalism" is this one.. ;)

Very nice interview with Mariah Bell after her bronze medal at Rostelecom Cup (in Russian).
translation (in a nutshell):
  • Mariah is closest of all with Zagitova (gets alone the best with Zagitova).
  • She is disappointed with her fall in SP, knew if she skates clean in FS she still can't pass Trus and Med, she is happy with her bronze and a relatively clean skate in FS.
  • it was not difficult to skate after Med, because the fans were all warmed up, and congratulations to Med for good skate.
  • She did not want to go below her past maximum level this season, worked with Rippon, he trained her very hard. Even when she said she was tired, he would say "does not matter, you have to re-skate your programme again".
  • That's why she did well and won at Nebelhorn and placed in the next events. On one hand it is good, on the other - the plank is raised, expectations are higher.
  • She thanks Adam for making her work so hard. Her permanent coach is Rafael of course, but this season's results she attributes to hard work with Adam.
  • It took her 2 years to get used to Rafael's coaching methods. He promised her results in 2 years, and now she feels it. Rafael is always right - even when she does not see it at first, he ends up being right.
  • Her today's goal is to keep her current level.
  • She got used to Rafael's style of coaching very quickly. They quickly found common grounds. Rafael is straight forward. While her other teacher used to "talk, discuss and debate about this and that", Rafael just tells you in your face/straight to you.
  • Rafael does not beat around the bush with words. It used to shock her at first. He would give it straight to her. But he is honest and she respects that.
  • First years Rafael guided her schedule and direction of training. Recently he said to her "you're a big girl. i am not holding your hand. i gave you all the tools you need. i have other students in the group who need supervision. you don't, because i'll only be repeating what i've already said". That is part of the reason why she started to work more frequently with Adam.
  • She is confident she can manage her own process, enjoys the coaches' trust, she is 23 after all.
  • Rafael said to her "i still see everything you do, don't think i am not looking". He knows when to advise and when to leave it alone.
  • Adam, who is now her coach and choreographer, suggested "Radar" and "Work B..". Bell was not sure it is her style, and the "b-word" concerned her, as far as judges' reaction. But she trusted Adam, he mixed the music in a way that it is unique, and now she thinks it is cool, and glad she trusted him.
  • There are now unique ladies who are jumping 3A and quads, and she also wants to do something unique, maybe her SP will be it.
  • She is excited about quads and 3A and feels proud to be skating in the "era of such progress in figure skating". She does not feel that it is unfair for girls with quads/3A to get higher scores. Scores is not her business, let the judges decide. She thinks soon the quads/3A will not be something extraordinary and many girls will start doing it, and that even now one has to learn it to have competitive advantage.
  • She gladly accepted many suggestions from SLB while working on «Hallelujah», happy working with her and results. SLB observes the athlete's strong points, and effectively uses it in the programme.
  • She is planning to learn 3A, even if she is 22, Tuktamysheva was a good example.
  • She was happy to skate in France, finally met with her boyfriend RP, they did not see each other for few months. Plus she got to see Nathan, they are friends, but he is away studying.
  • Recap of "bronze/gold medals" exchange on the podium in France. funny, cute, etc.
  • Asked which Russian girls she is friends with. Gets alone the best with Zagitova, got to know each other in shows. respects Medvedeva, and all of them, but did not meet many others.
--
 

gkelly

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The federation needs to make exceptions for Nationals qualifications. For example, for senior skaters who score above 160-165 and have the minimum TES but did not place in the Top 4, they are invited to Nationals. This will mitigate some of the problems such as had an “x” skater placing sixth at Eastern competed at Midwestern, she would’ve been 3rd or 4th.

But then if lots of senior ladies really bring it at sectionals, you could end up with 30+ skaters in the national championship.

Yes, they would all be worthy of competing nationally, but Nationals isn't designed to be that big and there might not be enough ice time reserved.

Should there then be cuts after the short program?

Does anyone know why there were 19 competitors in Pacific Coast Sectionals junior ladies and senior ladies vs. 18 everywhere else?
There weren't "18 everywhere else", there were varying amounts. There were 12 skaters qualifying through Regionals, 6 skaters with NQS byes, and in some Sections there were skaters who had byes through Regionals due to an international assignment in the fall.

Also -- and I don't know if this affected any of the seniors, but I have seen it in other levels -- anyone who qualified for sectionals and also qualified for the national challenge in pairs or ice dance got to compete singles at the location where the partner discipline event was being held, since they couldn't be two places at once.

I don't think broadcast audiences would be very happy if all they were allowed to see was the judges' feed. :shuffle:

One option: Let broadcasters show whatever they want during the program, including closeups of face or blades, overhead shots, etc., using their own cameras.

And then provide the official camera feed being used for reviews to the broadcasters to show after the fact during the wait for the scores. Heck, broadcast the tech panel review replays on the Jumbotron at arena events as well.

Probably in real time, which might mean a lot of time spent rewatching spin rotations. And without audio from the tech panel, so commentators and viewers could only guess what conclusions the panel was drawing from what they saw upon replay. But at least if commentators/viewers are going to draw their own conclusions, they'd be working from the same visuals as the panel.

That wouldn't help if the broadcasters go to commercial instead of showing replays.
And some broadcasters might want to replay other parts of the program from their own cameras instead to make whatever points the commentators want to make (or producers want them to make), or cut to backstage shots of a star who will be skating later, etc.

But the option would be there for broadcasters to show viewers what the tech panel is seeing. If they choose not to, fans can blame the networks rather than the federations.

And where the judges also have access to replays, it would be impossible to know what each judge replayed.
 

Tinami Amori

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But also IMO Alysa is the future of figure skating because she is pushing technical content in figure skating and is younger. She is landing both the axel and lutz which other are not being done in the same programs (regardless of call controversies) and as a junior.

Neither of the two Russian's you are probably talking about (who knows, there are so many) were completing both of those jumps at her age.

yes..... all these pesky russians.. :lol:
Sofia Akatieva (12) for example is one of them..... 2 quads (one in combo) and 3A in FS, and 3A in SP.....
 

alexikeguchi

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yes..... all these pesky russians.. :lol:
Sofia Akatieva (12) for example is one of them..... 2 quads (one in combo) and 3A in FS, and 3A in SP.....

Akatieva is very talented and I'm sure will ultimately land 3A and quad in the same program, but the link you shared is not that program. She sat down on the axel, and all three jumps looked UR, so it is true that Alysa is the only one who accomplished this feat so far.
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
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20,157
Akatieva is very talented and I'm sure will ultimately land 3A and quad in the same program, but the link you shared is not that program. She sat down on the axel, and all three jumps looked UR, so it is true that Alysa is the only one who accomplished this feat so far.
In that competition she made mistakes, Alysa Liu also has skates where she makes mistakes on 3A and quads. Both girls have skated programmes clean. The issue was not about specific skates, but if these girls have programmes with both quads and 3A's.

Akatieva's scores
 
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