U.S. Ladies [#25]: Method in the Madness

[Alexa]

TeamRaf is not run by Raf. The assumption is it started by Brezina, or someone from TeamRaf, but not Raf himself. Adam was seen in Lakewood recently with some young skaters, and Marin.

 

[eurodance2001]

TeamRaf is not run by Raf. The assumption is it started by Brezina, or someone from TeamRaf, but not Raf himself. Adam was seen in Lakewood recently with some young skaters, and Marin.

Thank you for clarifying and I retract my second question/assertion in my earlier post. #1 and 3 that I asked still stand though.. this doesn’t make any sense..

 

[Vagabond]

Poor Mariah might want to disable or privitize her Insta account for awhile. I don't recall Oksana Baiul's collision with Tanja Szewczenko drawing this much ire...

All of this brouhaha is not doing Eunsoo Lim any favors either. It's as if South Korean fans want to damage her chances of training with Rafael Arutunian or any other overseas coach, for that matter.

 

[eurodance2001]

All of this brouhaha is not doing Eunsoo Lim any favors either. It's as if South Korean fans want to damage her chances of training with Rafael Arutunian or any other overseas coach, for that matter.

Agreed. There’s enough stress as it is

 

[Firedancer]

I really hope Mariah is on a social media break at least until the competition is over.

 

[natsulian]

This is getting out of hand. Hopefully someone releases an official statement soon.

The major outlets are now reporting this. By major I mean publications with 1.1 million followers and readers.

 

[ballettmaus]

How many people are at the rink that Lim and Bell train at? How many are in the dressing-room with them? Are we really supposed to believe that they had these issues to the point where they had to be separated and not a single one of the other people at the rink either knew or heard about it or if they did, that they all kept it secret?

 

[UGG]

This is getting out of hand. Hopefully someone releases an official statement soon.

The major outlets are now reporting this. By major I mean publications with 1.1 million followers and readers.

What major outlets? I just googled and don’t see any reports other than Korean sites, and Just Jarred.

Everyone realizes that what Mariah is being accused of is like Tonya Harding level assault, right? Stabbing a competitor with her skate blade to cause an injury... she isn’t being accused of bumping a la Sasha Cohen in 2002...

 

[mag]

This is skating we're talking about though. The skating world - just like many sports and art worlds - is most likely a very small place and I think it's not unreasonable to assume that other skaters would have heard something, especially if they train at the same rink.

One of the things I have learned in my almost 20 year close association with skating is that those parents who believe that the skating world is a fair place where kids are all treated with the same care and respect are the parents of the “special” kids. Those parents are totally unaware of all the kids who are treated like crap in order to make their kid feel special. The community may be small, but it is shocking how blind some people can be. Many times I have read reports on this board that I know to be simply untrue. As in I know the people involved and I was there when it happened. It is shocking to me every time it happens.

Again, I have no idea what, if anything, is going on between Mariah and Eunsoo, but the excuse that “someone would have heard something of it was true” is the same excuse used to dismiss years of sexual harassment in the workplace. It would be nice if the world worked that way, but it really doesn’t.

One more time in case I am being unclear. I do not know what is happening, if anything. I also don’t think that victims should automatically be believed. I do think they should automatically be taken seriously Every. Single. Time. A charge has been made by Eunsoo’s management company (at least I think it has.) If that is the case the charge should be investigated and all parties should be treated with respect. There should be no prejudging.

 

[Laura4]

Mariah’s boyfriend, Romain Ponsart has now gone private on Instagram. Apparently, he was getting a lot of hate as well.

 

[ballettmaus]

One of the things I have learned in my almost 20 year close association with skating is that those parents who believe that the skating world is a fair place where kids are all treated with the same care and respect are the parents of the “special” kids. Those parents are totally unaware of all the kids who are treated like crap in order to make their kid feel special. The community may be small, but it is shocking how blind some people can be. Many times I have read reports on this board that I know to be simply untrue. As in I know the people involved and I was there when it happened. It is shocking to me every time it happens.

Even if no one but Lim felt that she was treated unfairly, every skater who usually uses the dressing-room with Lim and Bell and who uses the dressing-room one of them would have started using after they were separated would have known that something was up. And between all those people, I don't believe that that would have been kept secret. Maybe it wouldn't have found its way to the public but I find it unlikely that skaters who train at the same rink woudn't have heard about it, no matter how frequently or infrequently they are at the rink.

 

[Vagabond]

Again, I have no idea what, if anything, is going on between Mariah and Eunsoo, but the excuse that “someone would have heard something of it was true” is the same excuse used to dismiss years of sexual harassment in the workplace.

Except that the story is that Rafael Arutunian did hear about it and took action.

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...od-in-the-madness.105207/page-24#post-5558502

And yet, there doesn't appear to be a reliable source or evidence for that story, which apparently first surfaced after the accident yesterday. Hmm....

 

[Frida80]

Mariah’s boyfriend, Romain Ponsart has now gone private on Instagram. Apparently, he was getting a lot of hate as well.

This is disgusting. I can't believe they're going after him.

 

[Jarrett]

Story picked up on heavy.com https://heavy.com/news/2019/03/mariah-bell-lim-eun-soo/

 

[mag]

Even if no one but Lim felt that she was treated unfairly, every skater who usually uses the dressing-room with Lim and Bell and who uses the dressing-room one of them would have started using after they were separated would have known that something was up. And between all those people, I don't believe that that would have been kept secret. Maybe it wouldn't have found its way to the public but I find it unlikely that skaters who train at the same rink woudn't have heard about it, no matter how frequently or infrequently they are at the rink.

And if other skaters do know? How do we know they don’t. Knowing and talking about it are two different things. I am just saying that we don’t know and making assumptions like ones being made in this thread and out there on social media can be dangerous. It is disgusting what has been reported with people going after skaters on social media. It is disgusting that people here are trying to say that it could or could not have happened based on someone’s superficial take on a skater’s personality or a report from a skater or two who are sometimes at the the same rink. These are serious charges and should be treated as such. If they turn out to be true there should be serious repercussions. If they turn out to be false, who ever made them should face serious repercussions. The mob mentality is just way too scary. These are real people with real lives. This is not reality TV.

ETA: Skaters also switch sessions and skate opposite sessions to other skaters in order to make lesson time work or to fit in time with a personal trainer or ballet instructor. Even if Mariah and Eunsoo do skate on different sessions, that, in and of itself, doesn’t mean anything.

 

[BittyBug]

Story picked up on heavy.com https://heavy.com/news/2019/03/mariah-bell-lim-eun-soo/

Oh come on - all they did was regurgitate the Korean media story, which itself is just parroting All That Sports. This is the problem with internet "news" - it gets amplified by anyone with a URL and then suddenly everyone has heard the story and well it must be true because they read it on the internet.

 

[Laura4]

This is disgusting. I can't believe they're going after him.

I hope they don't start going after Nathan being that he's good friends with Mariah and Romain. I noticed some people were getting into it with Ashley Wagner on twitter because she posted a comment about how "bullying should never be met with more bullying."

 

[VGThuy]

Oh come on - all they did was regurgitate the Korean media story, which itself is just parroting All That Sports. This is the problem with internet "news" - it gets amplified by anyone with a URL and then suddenly everyone has heard the story and well it must be true because they read it on the internet.

I think Jarrett's point was that Heavy.com picked it up meaning the story is gaining traction.

 

[Jarrett]

Oh come on - all they did was regurgitate the Korean media story, which itself is just parroting All That Sports. This is the problem with internet "news" - it gets amplified by anyone with a URL and then suddenly everyone has heard the story and well it must be true because they read it on the internet.

That is all Heavy ever is? Lol

 

[jiejie]

It seems that the description of what happened on the practice session at Worlds wasn't quite what Lim's management stated. From witnesses, apparently Mariah's music was playing and she was doing her full run-through, giving her 100% right-of-way. Her choreography took her close to the side where Eunsoo was standing/slowly moving next to the boards, and her leg was splayed out as the choreo called for, the leg grazing Eunsoo. Mariah may or may not have felt anything at the time, and at any rate one doesn't stop their only chance at run-through on an official practice session. Eunsoo left the ice before Mariah's program ended. Misconceptions put out there by ATS, that need to be corrected, particularly among the rabid Korean fans now slinging mud at Mariah:
1) Eunsoo was the one in the wrong, as Mariah had unconditional right-of-way. Non-skaters may not understand this.
2) This wasn't a "collision" as happened with James/Guarise in the pairs warm-up. It was a passing leg catching a too-close bystander. It's entirely possible Mariah didn't even realize it in real time.
3) Of course there was no intent or malice. I'm a bit baffled because training at the same rink all season, Eunsoo would have been very familiar with Mariah's program and where she was going to be at any point of the music.
4) Eunsoo's injury was described as cutting muscle. That would mean a deep cut. If the injury was that bad, she would have been barely walking, much less skating that SP later the same day. I don't doubt it was a cut and was painful, but the average skater would have just had it dealt with with the medical staff and chalked it up to experience. For all we know, Eunsoo herself might have done this, but the adults on her team decided to escalate things.

With ATS' outright misrepresentation of the events at the practice session, it's not a stretch to write off their other allegations as exaggerations at best, and outright lies at worst.

 

[KaitlynB123]

Every skating event needs a scandal to generate interest!

This is getting out of hand. Hopefully someone releases an official statement soon.

The major outlets are now reporting this. By major I mean publications with 1.1 million followers and readers.

 

[natsulian]

I’m sure we have all been in situations where things were out of our control, but the blame became shifted onto us. That kind of experience is not only humiliating, but truly highlights how we live in a society where everyone works in their best self-interest and forgot about the repercussions of their actions on others. If what you say is true, not only is Mariah’s name tarnished, but she’ll have to re-build confidence within herself, literally starting from square one.

Furthermore, the media’s ghastly exaggerations of the incident are TOXIC and MANIPULATIVE, constructing a narrative to fit a certain agenda and desecrating Mariah’s brand. Moreover, once word of what truly happened gets out, Eunsoo’s credibility will be scrutinized. Eunsoo’s team literally shot her in the foot with this scandal if the allegations from the other party are true. I’m hoping Mariah and Eunsoo talked, aired out the dirty laundry, and are preparing well for their performances tomorrow.

Best of luck to both girls. This scandal has ruined Worlds 2019 for many and a lot of us will not be able to thoroughly enjoy the performances with the looming sadness. Had the agencies taken time to really understand the situation instead of firing their shots too soon, maybe this could have been avoided.

Anyways, good luck Eunsoo and Mariah, show the world that you won’t take part in this petty drama and put forth all your effort into the Free. Fighting!

 

[Willin]

It seems that the description of what happened on the practice session at Worlds wasn't quite what Lim's management stated. From witnesses, apparently Mariah's music was playing and she was doing her full run-through, giving her 100% right-of-way. Her choreography took her close to the side where Eunsoo was standing/slowly moving next to the boards, and her leg was splayed out as the choreo called for, the leg grazing Eunsoo. Mariah may or may not have felt anything at the time, and at any rate one doesn't stop their only chance at run-through on an official practice session. Eunsoo left the ice before Mariah's program ended. Misconceptions put out there by ATS, that need to be corrected, particularly among the rabid Korean fans now slinging mud at Mariah:
1) Eunsoo was the one in the wrong, as Mariah had unconditional right-of-way. Non-skaters may not understand this.
2) This wasn't a "collision" as happened with James/Guarise in the pairs warm-up. It was a passing leg catching a too-close bystander. It's entirely possible Mariah didn't even realize it in real time.
3) Of course there was no intent or malice. I'm a bit baffled because training at the same rink all season, Eunsoo would have been very familiar with Mariah's program and where she was going to be at any point of the music.
4) Eunsoo's injury was described as cutting muscle. That would mean a deep cut. If the injury was that bad, she would have been barely walking, much less skating that SP later the same day. I don't doubt it was a cut and was painful, but the average skater would have just had it dealt with with the medical staff and chalked it up to experience. For all we know, Eunsoo herself might have done this, but the adults on her team decided to escalate things.

With ATS' outright misrepresentation of the events at the practice session, it's not a stretch to write off their other allegations as exaggerations at best, and outright lies at worst.

Seriously - a deep cut to the muscle is something that you need to go to the hospital or at the very least an urgent care for to get stitched up. Oh, and there would be blood all over the ice. You wouldn't be skating a clean SP a couple hours after one of those. And Mariah would have certainly noticed since there would be a lot of resistance.

Believe me - I've seen it before during synchro worlds 2007. A deep muscle cut to the calf caused a skater to bleed all over the ice, so much so that you could see it from a distance on camera. She also was unable to use the leg and the program had to be stopped to insert an alternate. You used to be able to see the video online, but it's since been removed from just about everywhere due to the gore factor.

I'll withhold judgement on everything else, but that part just seems sketchy as heck to me. Maybe there was bullying, maybe there wasn't. But the agency is NOT making itself look very credible here.

If Eunsoo left the ice before Mariah finished her runthrough and then went to see medical staff, compete, and then went to bed, no wonder Mariah didn't apologize - she probably didn't even know she even caught Eunsoo's leg until this media firestorm happened.

 

[BittyBug]

That is all Heavy ever is? Lol

Sorry I’m not familiar with them so misunderstood your post.

 

[Frida80]

It seems that the description of what happened on the practice session at Worlds wasn't quite what Lim's management stated. From witnesses, apparently Mariah's music was playing and she was doing her full run-through, giving her 100% right-of-way. Her choreography took her close to the side where Eunsoo was standing/slowly moving next to the boards, and her leg was splayed out as the choreo called for, the leg grazing Eunsoo. Mariah may or may not have felt anything at the time, and at any rate one doesn't stop their only chance at run-through on an official practice session. Eunsoo left the ice before Mariah's program ended. Misconceptions put out there by ATS, that need to be corrected, particularly among the rabid Korean fans now slinging mud at Mariah:
1) Eunsoo was the one in the wrong, as Mariah had unconditional right-of-way. Non-skaters may not understand this.
2) This wasn't a "collision" as happened with James/Guarise in the pairs warm-up. It was a passing leg catching a too-close bystander. It's entirely possible Mariah didn't even realize it in real time.
3) Of course there was no intent or malice. I'm a bit baffled because training at the same rink all season, Eunsoo would have been very familiar with Mariah's program and where she was going to be at any point of the music.
4) Eunsoo's injury was described as cutting muscle. That would mean a deep cut. If the injury was that bad, she would have been barely walking, much less skating that SP later the same day. I don't doubt it was a cut and was painful, but the average skater would have just had it dealt with with the medical staff and chalked it up to experience. For all we know, Eunsoo herself might have done this, but the adults on her team decided to escalate things.

With ATS' outright misrepresentation of the events at the practice session, it's not a stretch to write off their other allegations as exaggerations at best, and outright lies at worst.

I'm completely disgusted with the behavior of the mgt firm. This was completely unprofessional and put two skaters under a lot of undo stress. There needs to be repercussions .

 

[Frida80]

Seriously - a deep cut to the muscle is something that you need to go to the hospital or at the very least an urgent care for to get stitched up. Oh, and there would be blood all over the ice. You wouldn't be skating a clean SP a couple hours after one of those. And Mariah would have certainly noticed since there would be a lot of resistance.

Believe me - I've seen it before during synchro worlds 2007. A deep muscle cut to the calf caused a skater to bleed all over the ice, so much so that you could see it from a distance on camera. She also was unable to use the leg and the program had to be stopped to insert an alternate. You used to be able to see the video online, but it's since been removed from just about everywhere due to the gore factor.

I'll withhold judgement on everything else, but that part just seems sketchy as heck to me. Maybe there was bullying, maybe there wasn't. But the agency is NOT making itself look very credible here.

If Eunsoo left the ice before Mariah finished her runthrough and then went to see medical staff, compete, and then went to bed, no wonder Mariah didn't apologize - she probably didn't even know she even caught Eunsoo's leg until this media firestorm happened.

With a bandage that small, she didn't even have stitches. It's why the story just didn't seem right at all.

 

[VGThuy]

If the MGMT team keeps INSISTING that Mariah Bell intentionally sliced her or "stabbed" her, if I was Bell, I'd threaten legal action after Worlds. If MGMT keeps painting a picture of the rink as one of bullying towards Lim and Raf knowing about it and letting it happen and if Raf honestly believes it's totally fabricated, I'd also sue. If I was Adam, I'd be taking screen-shots of all comments from Lim's fans on Mariah's, Romain's, and other IG accounts and search all the Lim/Bell related tweets and users to show damage to her reputation.

 

[binbinwinwin]

The Korean articles did not say there was a deep cut, they said the swelling from the cut subsided after a while but she still felt muscle pain. Here is the source. You can google translate it yourself.

 

[skateboy]

If the MGMT team keeps INSISTING that Mariah Bell intentionally sliced her or "stabbed" her, if I was Bell, I'd threaten legal action after Worlds. If MGMT keeps painting a picture of the rink as one of bullying towards Lim and Raf knowing about it and letting it happen and if Raf honestly believes it's totally fabricated, I'd also sue. If I was Adam, I'd be taking screen-shots of all comments from Lim's fans on Mariah's, Romain's, and other IG accounts and search all the Lim/Bell related tweets and users to show damage to her reputation.

Hell yes!

 

[jiejie]

The Korean articles did not say there was a deep cut, they said the swelling from the cut subsided after a while but she still felt muscle pain. Here is the source. You can google translate it yourself.

If you know anything about medicine/anatomy, you'd know that this statement doesn't make any sense either, in any language. She might be feeling surface pain from the cut that got through some upper layers of skin and tissue, and I'll buy that there was some swelling, but any true "muscle" pain would have come from some other reason.

Regardless, she got caught standing in the wrong place at the wrong time, when she had the DUTY to avoid the skater whose program was being played and had right of way. Whether she was lost in her own thoughts and not keeping up with what was going on around her, or something else, she essentially has nobody to blame but herself. She and her team are not going to come out of this looking very good, and I have no doubt it's not the 16-year old calling the shots here, it's the adults behind her.

I agree with some of the above sentiments that should they care to pursue it, there's the makings of a good civil lawsuit here from Mariah, Rafael, and possibly USFS against ATS and (if they want to be a part of the circus also), the Korean Federation.