U.S. Ice Dance 2022-23 news & updates

her grace

Team Guignard/Fabbri
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big question...I thought H/B had fantastic skating skills but they rec'd 8.86 compared to 9.39 G/P. Has Piper improved her skating skills drastically over the last few yrs. because it was said they were bad a lot a few yrs. ago..Paul always had great skating skills. l am asking for expert opinion as unless it is exactly pointed out to me where and when something happened & why it is bad I am lost....I never figure skated?

When thinking about Piper Gilles' skating skills, it's important to consider who the references are. Does she compare well to Papadakis or Hubbell? No. But they aren't in the field anymore. Does she compare well to Lewis? Absolutely, yes. Does she compare well to Chock. Yes, I'd say they're about the same--and some of G/P's choreography is more complex and difficult, which Gilles is executing well, so for this season I'd say her skating skills have been better than Chock's. Does she compare well to Hawayek? It depends on which Hawayek shows up. Sometimes, she skates with effortless glide. Sometimes, she looks tense and skates tense. And of course, Hawayek/Baker don't have the same reputation so this whole discussion is rather academic. ;)
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
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14,647
Because there were so many interesting changes of position at Espoo, I looked up the Skating Scores site after the event.

RD:
Free:

FYI, that Turkkila & Versluis were marked 3rd in the FD by 7 out of 9 judges, including the American judge, and Carreira & Ponomarenko were marked 4th or 5th in the FD by all but the French judge. C&P lost the technical mark and the base value in the FD there. In fact, the Taschlers' base value was almost as high as T&V's. And the Taschlers had a higher base value in the RD than both other teams.

Mind you, I think the results could have gone differently outside of Finland; but if anything, I'd say the Taschlers were undermarked in the RD. I also think Turkkila & Versluis did a beautiful job in the FD and that C&P had a nice event. I like to see more of Anthony's personality, but they're learning and it's good to try smooth & sophisticated on your way to learning who you are as a team. The Taschlers attacked both programs, but I did think they were more sloppy in the free. (It wouldn't take too much for someone to take out a few of the ugly positions within their material). Anyway, it was an interesting fight for the bronze. All of these teams are having rather a win some/lose some season; but they're all getting better; and that's the important thing.
 
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barbarafan

Well-Known Member
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5,206
When thinking about Piper Gilles' skating skills, it's important to consider who the references are. Does she compare well to Papadakis or Hubbell? No. But they aren't in the field anymore. Does she compare well to Lewis? Absolutely, yes. Does she compare well to Chock. Yes, I'd say they're about the same--and some of G/P's choreography is more complex and difficult, which Gilles is executing well, so for this season I'd say her skating skills have been better than Chock's. Does she compare well to Hawayek? It depends on which Hawayek shows up. Sometimes, she skates with effortless glide. Sometimes, she looks tense and skates tense. And of course, Hawayek/Baker don't have the same reputation so this whole discussion is rather academic. ;)
Basically I want to know if that is how their skating should be represented by judges..So What do you think G/P's skating skills should have been scored as. And for Hawayek what should they have been on the day and what do you think they should have been had she been skating as she usually does?
 

Debbie S

Well-Known Member
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14,429
Basically I want to know if that is how their skating should be represented by judges..So What do you think G/P's skating skills should have been scored as. And for Hawayek what should they have been on the day and what do you think they should have been had she been skating as she usually does?
So much depends on who else is in the event. Yes, there guidelines for each range, and we all know the judges also score on reputation. G/P fairly outscored H/B at this event. Should they have been scored X amount higher, or maybe less...it's hard to know, the scores really aren't absolute. I thought the calling at this event was fair but don't think G/P were 17 points better. But the marks could look different for both at an event with more top teams, where the judges may have a narrower range in their minds.
 

her grace

Team Guignard/Fabbri
Messages
5,357
Basically I want to know if that is how their skating should be represented by judges..So What do you think G/P's skating skills should have been scored as. And for Hawayek what should they have been on the day and what do you think they should have been had she been skating as she usually does?

I didn't watch the FDs from Espoo so I wouldn't be comfortable assigning scores to that event.

I can say that I think H/B's FD at SA had better Skating Skills than Gilles/Poirier's FD at SC. I would mark both of those performances in the high 8s for SS with H/B's SS mark a little higher. Overall, though, I would rate G/P's SC performances as better than H/B's performances at SA.
 

barbarafan

Well-Known Member
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5,206
So much depends on who else is in the event. Yes, there guidelines for each range, and we all know the judges also score on reputation. G/P fairly outscored H/B at this event. Should they have been scored X amount higher, or maybe less...it's hard to know, the scores really aren't absolute. I thought the calling at this event was fair but don't think G/P were 17 points better. But the marks could look different for both at an event with more top teams, where the judges may have a narrower range in their minds.
Thank-you
I didn't watch the FDs from Espoo so I wouldn't be comfortable assigning scores to that event.

I can say that I think H/B's FD at SA had better Skating Skills than Gilles/Poirier's FD at SC. I would mark both of those performances in the high 8s for SS with H/B's SS mark a little higher. Overall, though, I would rate G/P's SC performances as better than H/B's performances at SA.
Fair enough....I see Piper as very dramatic although Paul not so much. Jean Luc has great performance skills and Kaitlyn's are developing nicely. Will be interesting to see the programs in a few weeks....and what the judges have decided. Thank-you for your help.
 

AYS

🌻
Messages
24,505
Zingas/Kolesnik & Flores/Desyatov - scored 192.74 & 187.86 at US Dance Final (for comparison Ling/Wein scored 171.30 - see Finlandia score below for perspective)

10th through 13th - Cesanek/Yehorov (150.79 SCI), Ling/Wein (140.83 Finlandia)

My best guess is that ZingKol will score somewhere in the 165-170 range at Golden Spin - they're certainly not going to match what GreenP or CarPon have scored internationally, and there is a pretty big gap between those two and the rest of the top 10 going into Nats.
I would be very surprised to see Z/K not considerably higher than that range if they skate anywhere near what they did at the dance final. I look forward to getting more data points this weekend!

Ling/Wein skated absolutelyhorribly at Findlandia, so that’s apples to oranges.they were much better at the dance final (and Philly).
 

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
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24,686
I would be very surprised to see Z/K not considerably higher than that range if they skate anywhere near what they did at the dance final. I look forward to getting more data points this weekend!

Ling/Wein skated absolutelyhorribly at Findlandia, so that’s apples to oranges.they were much better at the dance final (and Philly).
Zingas/Kolesnik are not going to be scoring in their international debut at Golden Spin. The scores from the US Dance Final were inflated, to say the least, and you know better than to equate domestic judging panels with what skaters are likely to get from an international panel. Even if one does spot Ling/Wein 10 points extra on their Finlandia score to compensate for the errors they made there, that's still 20 points lower than they scored at the Dance Final.

The Golden Spin field has 6 teams who had at least one GP assignment -

Reed/Ambrulevicius (189.98 NHK/185.42 Nebelhorn)
Carreira/Ponomarenko (188.80 Espoo/187.42 MKJW)
Kazakova/Reviya (176.71 MKJW/173.05 GPdF)
Pate/Bye (174.03 GPdF/179.63 US Classic)
Janse van Rensburg/Steffan (160.26 SkAm/181.50 Warsaw Cup)
Harris/Chan (170.20 SkAm/159.92 SCI)

Realistically, ZingKol might contend for bronze, but I don't see them being competitive with either ReedAmbru or CarPon here.
 

jlai

Question everything
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13,364
Zingas/Kolesnik are not going to be scoring in their international debut at Golden Spin. The scores from the US Dance Final were inflated, to say the least, and you know better than to equate domestic judging panels with what skaters are likely to get from an international panel. Even if one does spot Ling/Wein 10 points extra on their Finlandia score to compensate for the errors they made there, that's still 20 points lower than they scored at the Dance Final.

The Golden Spin field has 6 teams who had at least one GP assignment -

Reed/Ambrulevicius (189.98 NHK/185.42 Nebelhorn)
Carreira/Ponomarenko (188.80 Espoo/187.42 MKJW)
Kazakova/Reviya (176.71 MKJW/173.05 GPdF)
Pate/Bye (174.03 GPdF/179.63 US Classic)
Janse van Rensburg/Steffan (160.26 SkAm/181.50 Warsaw Cup)
Harris/Chan (170.20 SkAm/159.92 SCI)

Realistically, ZingKol might contend for bronze, but I don't see them being competitive with either ReedAmbru or CarPon here.
Yeah sectional score is inflated though it is possible they score higher than 160 to 170. Bronze would be huge for them
 

ice coverage

Well-Known Member
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Entries for Winter University Games in Lake Placid, per USFS assignment page today:

Koncius/Shchepetov
Ling/Wein
McNamara/Spiridonov​

Opening ceremony: Jan 12, 7 - 9 pm

RD: Jan 13, 1:10 - 3:00 pm

FD: Jan 14: 8 - 10:30 pm

(Nats RD is on Jan 26.)



New bio for Emilea Zingas/Vadym Kolesnik was added to USFS Fan Zone yesterday.

Yeah sectional score is inflated though it is possible they score higher than 160 to 170. Bronze would be huge for them

Small comment that U.S. Dance Final scores are domestic scores, but not sectional scores.
FWIW, all sections went head to head at U.S. Dance Final.
(JMO, but "sectional" makes the potential degree of inflation sound worse.)
 

ice coverage

Well-Known Member
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Sylvia Li and Rowan Lecoq have a pretty big lead after the pattern dances at Santa Claus Cup: http://hunskate.hu/external/mukorcsolya/2022_2023/SC22_ISU/CAT012RS.htm

Does anyone know if they'll be age-eligible for the JGP next season?

Apparently not. Per ISU bio, Li does not turn thirteen until after 2023-24 season begins.

Also good to see that Annelise Stapert/Maxim Korotcov placed second in Westminster Waltz and third in Argentine Tango.

Both couples have fun FDs. :)
 

azcalder

Well-Known Member
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224
Apparently not. Per ISU bio, Li does not turn thirteen until after 2023-24 season begins.

Also good to see that Annelise Stapert/Maxim Korotcov placed second in Westminster Waltz and third in Argentine Tango.

Both couples have fun FDs. :)
  • Sylvia Li & Rowan Le Coq’s dance to West Side Story includes Sylvia's quick costume flip from shorts to dress for Maria”.
 

yeslek

Well-Known Member
Messages
523
When thinking about Piper Gilles' skating skills, it's important to consider who the references are. Does she compare well to Papadakis or Hubbell? No. But they aren't in the field anymore. Does she compare well to Lewis? Absolutely, yes. Does she compare well to Chock. Yes, I'd say they're about the same--and some of G/P's choreography is more complex and difficult, which Gilles is executing well, so for this season I'd say her skating skills have been better than Chock's. Does she compare well to Hawayek? It depends on which Hawayek shows up. Sometimes, she skates with effortless glide. Sometimes, she looks tense and skates tense. And of course, Hawayek/Baker don't have the same reputation so this whole discussion is rather academic. ;)
I disagree with this.
 

jlai

Question everything
Messages
13,364
Zingas/Kolesnik are not going to be scoring in their international debut at Golden Spin. The scores from the US Dance Final were inflated, to say the least, and you know better than to equate domestic judging panels with what skaters are likely to get from an international panel. Even if one does spot Ling/Wein 10 points extra on their Finlandia score to compensate for the errors they made there, that's still 20 points lower than they scored at the Dance Final.

The Golden Spin field has 6 teams who had at least one GP assignment -

Reed/Ambrulevicius (189.98 NHK/185.42 Nebelhorn)
Carreira/Ponomarenko (188.80 Espoo/187.42 MKJW)
Kazakova/Reviya (176.71 MKJW/173.05 GPdF)
Pate/Bye (174.03 GPdF/179.63 US Classic)
Janse van Rensburg/Steffan (160.26 SkAm/181.50 Warsaw Cup)
Harris/Chan (170.20 SkAm/159.92 SCI)

Realistically, ZingKol might contend for bronze, but I don't see them being competitive with either ReedAmbru or CarPon here.
Well here is the bronze for zingkol :cheer:
 

AYS

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24,505
Based on the actual skating they showed at the dance final, a 110 FD internationally is not a surprising result for Z/K (to me), even though it's their debut. It is very, very impressive though. Flores/D are also in the same conversation (based on the skating I've seen so far from them).
 

BlueRidge

AYS's snark-sponge
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61,685
Z/K outscored Pate/Bye by 10 points. I’m betting on them for 5th at Nats, unless Flores is even better.
But they were only 2 points ahead in the FD, and Pate & Bye have scored higher in other RDs, so its not so big a gap as that makes it sound. And Bratti & Somerville are also scoring in that range, so I think there's still a big battle to come for the top 5.
 

ice coverage

Well-Known Member
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160
Full video of Zingas/Kolesnik's FD ❤️ at Golden Spin:


croskate's Instagram account also has posted full FD video for the Lithuanians.
(ETA:​
A comment on Reddit leads me to believe that maybe Carreira/Ponomarenko's full video originally had been posted too ... but maybe croskate took it down? I do not see it now as a reel.
croskate Instastory has short video clips of several couples, including C/P, Z/K, Pate/Bye, etc.)​



FWIW: Cesanek/Yehorov are not listed in the practice groups document that USFS published a few days ago. 🤔

I hope they are OK. 🙏
They skated in an outdoor show in Cleveland this week -- a fundraiser for Scott Hamilton's foundation.

If their omission from practice groups is just a mistake, it would be a hard-to-overlook mistake, IMO.
There are only three practice groups. Group A has four couples, and Groups B and C have five couples.
 
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Andrea82

Well-Known Member
Messages
540
Full video of Zingas/Kolesnik's FD ❤️ at Golden Spin:


croskate's Instagram account also has posted full FD video for the Lithuanians.
(ETA:​
A comment on Reddit leads me to believe that maybe Carreira/Ponomarenko's full video originally had been posted too ... but maybe croskate took it down? I do not see it now as a reel.​
croskate Instastory has short video clips of several couples, including C/P, Z/K, Pate/Bye, etc.)​
I can see Carreira/Ponomarenko's video here:
 

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
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24,686
Just used my VPN, and when connected to Croatia it works! So something is weird and geoblocked.
It's definitely geoblocked at the moment. I wonder if someone more technologically capable can DL it from the Croatian fed's IG reels and upload it to YT instead...
 

Sylvia

Happy 2023! :)
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74,626
As mentioned earlier, Carreira/Ponomarenko's winning free dance at Golden Spin is posted on the Croatian skating federation's Instagram page but the link does not show up for those of us in the U.S. ("because of the music it is not visible in the USA" is the DM reply I received) - thanks @Rukia for sharing their video on tumblr! :)
Zingas/Kolesnik's 3rd place FD: https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cl_WWmBIkAj/

Pate/Bye's 4th place Riverdance FD (filmed by Novi rinkmate Isabelle Guise), shared by Logan: https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cl_dhKyrsy0/

GOLD Christina CARREIRA / Anthony PONOMARENKO USA 191.31* 2 1 (76.54* in RD, 114.77* in FD)
BRONZE Emilea ZINGAS / Vadym KOLESNIK USA 184.10 3 3 (73.14 RD, 110.96 FD) - their international debut
4 Eva PATE / Logan BYE USA 174.44 7 4 (65.64 RD, 108.80* FD)

* = ISU Season Best score
 

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
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24,686
I mentioned this in the CarPon thread, but this result is REALLY interesting and leads me to believe that bronze really is a toss up between GreenP and CarPon.

Both teams have recently faced off against and beat ReedAmbru of Lithuania, with CarPon's advantage being 1.84 points (including that pesky 1.0 extended lift deduction), while GreenP's advantage was 1.12 points.

It is going to be a very exciting Nationals battle!
 

ice coverage

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Fun fact re Spiridonov's assignment to 2023 World University Games:

"Spiridonov’s mother is Elena Garanina, the 1981 FISU World University Games champion for Russia."​
(Dec 8)​



For the record, re U.S. Ice Dance Final scores (from four weeks ago):

Z/K at Dance Final: 79.58 RD; 113.16 FD; 192.74 total​
Z/K at Golden Spin: 73.14 RD; 110.96 FD; 184.10 total​

FWIW, the difference in FD score was only 2.20.



Just used my VPN, and when connected to Croatia it works! So something is weird and geoblocked.

It was a revelation to me yesterday that geoblocking of Instagram video is a thing. 😕
Thanks to @Rukia for uploading C/P FD to tumblr.
 

AYS

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24,505


For the record, re U.S. Ice Dance Final scores (from four weeks ago):

Z/K at Dance Final: 79.58 RD; 113.16 FD; 192.74 total​
Z/K at Golden Spin: 73.14 RD; 110.96 FD; 184.10 total​

FWIW, the difference in FD score was only 2.20.





It was a revelation to me yesterday that geoblocking of Instagram video is a thing. 😕
Thanks to @Rukia for uploading C/P FD to tumblr.
Interestingly, that 2.2 difference was GOE, called ~2 points lower at GS. PCS, which is what you'd think would be elevated domestically, was actually a little higher at GS, and their base score was called exactly the same.

I've had no problem viewing the Croatia videos on IG here in the US, but when I tried to switch to Opera with the VPN enabled when Peacock went down during the FD, it told me it was blocked no matter what country I tried. That's the first time I've tried to watch a live event with that, although it's allowed me to view playbacks on the ISU youtube.
 

Rukia

A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
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I've had no problem viewing the Croatia videos on IG here in the US, but when I tried to switch to Opera with the VPN enabled when Peacock went down during the FD, it told me it was blocked no matter what country I tried. That's the first time I've tried to watch a live event with that, although it's allowed me to view playbacks on the ISU youtube.
For the record I also used Opera to get around it, I just had to switch regions a couple times before the Europe one would finally work.
 

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