U.S. Ice Dance 2022-23 news & updates

ice coverage

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160
Glad that Audrey & Carter will be eligible next season.

I noticed that they aren't yet listed on the ISP, but the USFS hasn't added any skaters since Sectionals/Pairs/Dance Finals, so maybe they're waiting until after Nationals, which I suppose makes sense, especially if they're waiting on the releases from some feds (Desyatov in dance, Lewer in pairs). ...

Bringing Karen's post today from U.S. Pairs thread over here ... because the first time I noticed Koncius/Shchepetov on ISP list was right after Dance Final.

But it's possible that I had forgotten (or just plain missed) that they already were on it before Dance Final? :unsure:

Stapert is her last name (typo in Santa Claus Cup entries list).

Li/Le Coq's winning Novice FD at the recent U.S. Ice Dance Final to West Side Story, with her fun costume change :), is worth checking out - starts at ~1:12:55 in the replay video: https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/watch/?Archive=3083
They are coached by Igor Lukanin & Kristen Fraser-Lukanin in New Jersey.

Jordan Cowan also filmed them performing their WSS at Sky Rink at Chelsea Piers in NYC in September 2022: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs3LWlaz0Es

Will add that WISA novice couple Annelise Stapert/Maxim Korotcov previously shared OIP footage from LPIDC practice:

(posted Aug 2022)​

Congratulations to both novice couples for assignment to Santa Claus Cup. 👏
 

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
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24,661
Bringing Karen's post today from U.S. Pairs thread over here ... because the first time I noticed Koncius/Shchepetov on ISP list was right after Dance Final.

But it's possible that I had forgotten (or just plain missed) that they already were on it before Dance Final? :unsure:
Hmmmm... Good catch! I don't think they were on the ISP either prior to the Dance Final.

It certainly does seem like the obvious reason why Flores/Desyatov (and Williams/Lewer for Pairs) aren't included on the ISP is a release issue.
 
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yeslek

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523
No, they’ve been around way too long. I don’t even know what could possibly be driving them at this point apart from fear of moving on. Skating skills have been stagnant for at least a decade, programs aren’t especially fresh or inspired, they haven’t improved for years, they don’t look hungry to be out there. Their last outing just screamed lack of heart, especially from Evan. Why are they even still in it?
Well it isn’t really up to you…
 

litenkyckling

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Messages
586
For my sins I watched TSL last night while washing dishes - and after seeing G/Ps RD scores in Finland I have to say that I agree with them that C/B should WD from the GPF. If they want the world title then I think they need to find an excuse not to go because they risk not being on the GPF podium at this rate. If I were them I'd skip it and totally revamp/redo the programmes and hope that it leads to a better second half of the season.
 

angi

Well-Known Member
Messages
643
For my sins I watched TSL last night while washing dishes - and after seeing G/Ps RD scores in Finland I have to say that I agree with them that C/B should WD from the GPF. If they want the world title then I think they need to find an excuse not to go because they risk not being on the GPF podium at this rate. If I were them I'd skip it and totally revamp/redo the programmes and hope that it leads to a better second half of the season.
I don't think they can really come back from withdrawing from such a major competition. H/B are not a real threat for them unless they will make a major mistake, but I agree that it seems like they are fighting FB/S and F/G for bronze currently and not G/P and G/F for gold.
That being said, In 2019/20 season Sinitsina/Katsalapov went from finishing 6th at GPF to beating P/C at Europeans two months later. If C/B can use the 4-5 weeks they have between GPF and US Championships to revamp they can come back strong in the second half of the season.
 

litenkyckling

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586
I don't think they can really come back from withdrawing from such a major competition. H/B are not a real threat for them unless they will make a major mistake, but I agree that it seems like they are fighting FB/S and F/G for bronze currently and not G/P and G/F for gold.
That being said, In 2019/20 season Sinitsina/Katsalapov went from finishing 6th at GPF to beating P/C at Europeans two months later. If C/B can use the 4-5 weeks they have between GPF and US Championships to revamp they can come back strong in the second half of the season.
I think the difference is that S/K made major errors there - the judges went with their programmes that season in every other event.

Also, S/K were up against the likes of H/D, P/C and C/B with the snake dance..... losing to idk F/G? That would seem like a defeat they would struggle to come back from repuatation wise.
 

Debbie S

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14,429
Agree, withdrawing from the GPF is never a good thing. Looking at their scores from last week, they have the potential to score in the same range as G/F and G/P, they just can't miss levels.

And yes, results at the GPF don't always match what happens later in the season. (Actually, given that there won't be a U.S. or CAN judge on the Worlds panel, I think G/F may have the best chance of winning Worlds.)
 

angi

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643
I think the difference is that S/K made major errors there - the judges went with their programmes that season in every other event.

Also, S/K were up against the likes of H/D, P/C and C/B with the snake dance..... losing to idk F/G? That would seem like a defeat they would struggle to come back from repuatation wise.
S/K's one mistake was their choreographic slide getting tinged for a supposed fall which cost them about 3.5 points, they were 4.5 points from bronze and over 7 points from silver.
C/B are currently 4.5 points away from G/F and 7.5 points from G/P in total score. That's a gap that can be closed when they both get their levels and if they will fix their choreographic elements in the FD that are not getting high GOE currently. When we break down the scoring, the situation is not as dire as it seems, it's mostly their reputation and (likely) confidence that are taking a hit here.
 

Trillian

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727
(Actually, given that there won't be a U.S. or CAN judge on the Worlds panel, I think G/F may have the best chance of winning Worlds.)

Based on the quality of their skating and programs, G/F might earn it regardless of the panel. I’ve been more impressed with them overall than anyone else this season. G/P are a real mixed bag for me personally because they have my favorite RD and least favorite FD of the top six teams - but they have a clear edge over C/B right now.

I don’t think it would be a good idea for C/B to withdraw from the GPF, but I do think bronze is likely the best-case scenario for them at that event. A few months between GPF and Worlds could make a lot of difference for a team of their caliber in a season when there’s no clear hierarchy between the top teams, though. I suspect the GPF will give some clues about what might happen at Worlds, but it will probably be close enough that the rankings won’t be set in stone for the rest of the season.
 

SidelineSkater

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436
I also think the GPF scoring is a bit more concise compared to a GP field with 10 teams. Easier head to head comparison. However, it looks like C/B will be in the first group at the final with H/B and F/G (if the FD results at Finland hold). They are .04 behind FB/S in total points. In dance, sometimes it's hard to jump up to top three while skating in the first flight.
 

Debbie S

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I also think the GPF scoring is a bit more concise compared to a GP field with 10 teams. Easier head to head comparison. However, it looks like C/B will be in the first group at the final with H/B and F/G (if the FD results at Finland hold). They are .04 behind FB/S in total points. In dance, sometimes it's hard to jump up to top three while skating in the first flight.
C/B were in the first group in 2019 and finished a close 3rd behind H/D. If they skate to their potential and don't miss levels, I would think they'd have the advantage over F-B/S. They did score higher in PCS at NHK.
 

VGThuy

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39,774
Withdrawing from the GPF will only confirm that they are behind the top competition, that they came into the GP ill-prepared, and that they made mistakes with their routines, and doing so may garner them some bad will because some will see the act as cowardly…and they will be seen that way no matter how they’ll revamp their programs. If they compete and place a respectable 3rd or even 4th, then they’re still in it for the long game (Worlds in March) and can turn the narrative around. The judges will be familiar with their material thanks to competing it ant the GPF, and will notice any positive changes from the GPF on and be more ready to accept them as part of the GP to Worlds growing/evolution process….they won’t be “forgotten” and left out of the convo like they would if they withdraw.

Withdrawing with changes to the program will make it seem like they’re making their GP debut again and they’ll fall more behind after the judges more-or-less solidify which programs they like the best and don’t want to make room to consider a program they’re less familiar with.

In other words, it’s important to compete and keep yourself part of the conversation and continue to be seen as viable and valid competitors. Withdrawing now will make them go back to zero.
 
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Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
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I have to agree that it would be suicidal for ChoBat to WD from the GPF. They can place 3rd or 4th then go home and spendost of the next 2 months re-tooling so that they look like a brand-new team at Nats and get some buzz heading into 4CCs. I see no reason to believe they won't beat FBSoer and challenge GilPoir at 4CCs with more time to prepare.
 

topaz

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15,067
C/B were in the first group in 2019 and finished a close 3rd behind H/D. If they skate to their potential and don't miss levels, I would think they'd have the advantage over F-B/S. They did score higher in PCS at NHK.
I don't. Laurence and Nic have excellent lifts/spins and their chemistry while on the ice is very engaging. Madison Chock is a phenomenal performer, has excellent lines, and hits positions that are drool-worthy. Chock has charisma but does Laurence. However, her mediocre skating skills have been disguised better in the past. Personally, I think the new changes to the RD and FD hurt this team. Chock can't rely on Evan's skating skills during patterns and steps anymore. Chock is not known for her skating skills and edge quality. Again, I like Madison but these are my opinions on her actual skating ability.
Withdrawing from the GPF will only confirm that they are behind the top competition, that they came into the GP ill-prepared, and that they made mistakes with their routines, and doing so may garner them some bad will because some will see the act as cowardly…and they will be seen that way no matter how they’ll revamp their programs. If they compete and place a respectable 3rd or even 4th, then they’re still in it for the long game (Worlds in March) and can turn the narrative around. The judges will be familiar with their material thanks to competing it ant the GPF, and will notice any positive changes from the GPF on and be more ready to accept them as part of the GP to Worlds growing/evolution process….they won’t be “forgotten” and left out of the convo like they would if they withdraw.

Withdrawing with changes to the program will make it seem like they’re making their GP debut again and they’ll fall more behind after the judges more-or-less solidify which programs they like the best and don’t want to make room to consider a program they’re less familiar with.

In other words, it’s important to compete and keep yourself part of the conversation and continue to be seen as viable and valid competitors. Withdrawing now will make them go back to zero.

Hubbell and Donahue had to fight through it for a few years in a row. Two years of revamping SD, RD and FD programs throughout the season. But they followed their hearts, and their vision while competing.
 

skatingguy

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I disagree that Chock/Bates would be mortally wounded by withdrawing from the Grand Prix. If they withdraw, and show up at US Nationals with better programs, and crisper skating everything about the fall will be forgotten. Besides, the sport really is seen as two season - the summer/fall, and the championship season - and things start again with the beginning of the championships.
 

greenapple

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1,113
The fact that Chock and Bates have re-imagined their original "vision" of what their FD is about indicates they know they have a big problem. Not going to the GPF won't hurt them, but perhaps going would do more damage to their international reputation.

For sure Gilles/Poirier will beat them along with the Italians and possibly the Canadians if they repeat what they did at NHK. I think going poses a bigger risk than skipping the event. They really need to get a completely new "vision."
 

Theatregirl1122

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27,949
I think Tanith and Ben wouldn’t have medaled at the 2010 Olympics even if they’d attended the GPF. They’d won gold at both GP events, but so had Tessa and Scott and Meryl and Charlie, and B/A’s scores were steadily lower than D/W’s.

But still, it felt like the last nail in the coffin when Meryl and Charlie went out and won the GPF with Tanith and Ben not there. It did feel like the hope was the national judges would stick with the status quo without a head to head result to tell them to do otherwise, but the message was clear at that point. No one thought two US teams (and three NA teams) could make the podium, and two spots were clearly taken.

If I were C/B, I wouldn’t risk watching the rest of the world fight it out without even throwing my hat in the ring.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
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As bad as we all think their material is this year, I don’t think the judges feel that way or would care at all if Chock/Bates could skate it clean and get their levels and sell it.

A mistake ridden, lacklustre program will not score well in the GPF no matter who skates it.
 

Rukia

A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
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16,218
Yeah, I don't think this is the disaster a lot of people seem to think it is. Sure, they got beat, but honestly their performance was kind of subpar anyway. They just didn't seem as into it. I suspect their scores will be back where they want them and they'll be vying for the top spot at GPF, which, let's face it, was never going to be just handed to them anyway.


Although my ideal worlds team would be Hawayek/Baker, Green/Parsons, and Carreira/Ponomarenko because I just like them better :shuffle:
 

Trillian

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727
As bad as we all think their material is this year, I don’t think the judges feel that way or would care at all if Chock/Bates could skate it clean and get their levels and sell it.

I don’t even think their material is bad. They just haven’t been skating well enough to sell it. IMO they’d be much better off focusing on better delivery of the programs they already have, rather than trying to majorly rework anything at this point in the season.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
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I don’t even think their material is bad. They just haven’t been skating well enough to sell it. IMO they’d be much better off focusing on better delivery of the programs they already have, rather than trying to majorly rework anything at this point in the season.
I agree.

I think they have done much better stuff in the past but it’s not like we haven’t seen worse material win Worlds and Olympic medals (Rach Pirates, anyone?)
 

angi

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643
Have to say I felt both C/P and H/B got judged very very harshly compared to others at Espoo. That bronze should have been C/P's who have a much better FD with way more nuance, sophistication, and complexity than T/V who got some of the biggest home ice boost I've ever seen. And H/B finishing no less than 17 points behind G/P is also completely unfair imo.
 

Rukia

A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
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16,218
I suspect the order for US Nats is pretty much set barring any strange things happening. I just hope all the teams at Espoo are satisfied with the progress they have made this season.
 

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