U.S. Ice Dance 2017/18 season news & updates

[chameleonster]

McNamara/Carpenter's demise has been greatly exaggerated, they're back and better than ever. Wow, so much speed and power, was really impressed. I wish everyone had gone clean, but I liked what we did see. Too bad Pogrebinsky/Benoit had lift trouble, I was really liking that program. Not totally sold on Parsons FD yet, but they are so good and I look forward to seeing it grow.

Waiting for the non international juniors before I talk about the juniors more, but Carreira/Ponomarenko really impressed me with their growth and technical upgrades, and I quite liked the Greens as well.

 

[Jun Y]

I like the Parsonses' free dance right away, which is rare for me. I almost never like any program so much on first sight. It is full of unique little touches that appear to be inspired by modern dance that no one else is doing. Also like the structure of the music cut. I think all the lifts are new.

Lorraine though ... That attitude! I had to laugh.

 

[Lara111]

I did not know I was going to say this but i love judging at LPInternational Junior event. 100% agree. I even predicted scores within +-2-3

On the other note the panel for Junior Free LP was just not good. I wish they had the same panel.

 

[platniumangel]

I did not know I was going to say this but i love judging at LPInternational Junior event. 100% agree. I even predicted scores within +-2-3

I was shocked how differently the international and the domestic were scored. Junior in particular. The international was VERY conservative with giving out points (in my opinion) while the domestic seemed to give inflated/overly generous points (also in my opinion)

I wonder why this is? I understand each event had completely different panels..... but I would have expected some continuity. Anyone else agree?

I wonder how US Figure Skating will determine ISP from these two LP events. Will they take in to account the different panels, etc?

I believe they will look at each team as a whole. Last year's placement/experience, Chesapeake and/or Texas Cannon Open (I believe those were the only other ISP events)

There's definitely a lot of talent in Junior (senior too, of course) but the Jr scoring has been all over the place so far this season!

 

[Lara111]

Texas was a joke - just my opinion

 

[Lara111]

At the end it all makes sense. if you sum up all Chesapeake and LP it makes sense overall. In my opinion tech panel on International was stellar. I think there were some questionable calls on domestic but what do i know.

 

[platniumangel]

Texas was a joke - just my opinion

Texas and Chesapeake were ISP events, top US judges, specialists, etc.

 

[platniumangel]

I like the Parsonses' free dance right away, which is rare for me. I almost never like any program so much on first sight. It is full of unique little touches that appear to be inspired by modern dance that no one else is doing. Also like the structure of the music cut. I think all the lifts are new.

Lorraine though ... That attitude! I had to laugh.

I agree. I'm not usually a huge Parsons fan but I really did like their Sd and Fd!

 

[Lara111]

I got Chesapeake but score in Texas were well strange giving the LP performances

 

[Lara111]

Texas and Chesapeake were ISP events, top US judges, specialists, etc.

Some teams were over scored big time at Texas - do not know the reason. Some just did not do well there - beginning of the season.

 

[platniumangel]

I got Chesapeake but score in Texas were well strange giving the LP performances

I think some skaters performed better in TX and some better in LP. Different events, different points in the season. I just found the direct comparison of scores of the LP international VS LP domestic to be striking. Some judges/TS are more conservative than others, so I guess it makes sense. Different panels call differently.

 

[Lara111]

Some teams just cannot attain a certain scores due to their limited skating skills. What was so striking between International and domestic? I think both panels were fairly conservative - not for the top skaters thought which is fine

 

[Lutzlvr]

Just curious if you think there was significant International deflation/ domestic inflation of all teams, or of certain teams?

 

[Lara111]

Just curious if you think there was significant International deflation/ domestic inflation of all teams, or of certain teams?

I do not think there was a significant deflation/domestic inflation at all. I think it was kind of fair big picture. I do think there was some inflation at Texas though

 

[platniumangel]

Some teams just cannot attain a certain scores due to their limited skating skills. What was so striking between International and domestic? I think both panels were fairly conservative - not for the top skaters thought which is fine

I found it striking because excluding the top few, several of the teams did not make any glaring mistakes in the international yet earned significantly lower points than previous competitions, including past sectionals/nationals, etc... even at lower levels. Yet the domestic seemed more normal with the scoring-- at least closer to the norm. That's all.

 

[Lara111]

I found it striking because excluding the top few, several of the teams did not make any glaring mistakes in the international yet earned significantly lower points than previous competitions, including past sectionals/nationals, etc... even at lower levels. Yet the domestic seemed more normal with the scoring-- at least closer to the norm. That's all.

May be some previous competitions scores were inflated for some teams.

 

[platniumangel]

May be some previous competitions scores were inflated for some teams.

All of last year? lol

 

[Lara111]

yep. It just does not cut at Juniors level. You should also know how to skate well. just my opinion.

 

[platniumangel]

yep. It just does not cut at Juniors level. You should also know how to skate well. just my opinion.

I guess we will see how the year pans out. A successful career in skating is a marathon, not a sprint. Junior is just preparation for senior.

I agree that skating skills are important. I think it's important that both partners can skate and are equally matched in skill level. Several of the newer teams seem to have one partner much stronger than the other. I don't know how that will effect the longevity of the teams.

Good night all! Zzz

 

[chameleonster]

McNamara/Carpenter look good for the SA host pick... hoping Parsons can pick up another spot.

I wonder how they're going to allot the JGP spots(I believe we have fourteen?). Carreira/Ponomarenko, Lewis/Bye, and the Greens were all early favorites for two each, but Gropman/Somerville put themselves in the conversation for junior worlds and I think they should get a second JGP as well. I was really impressed, they've matured and are skating with more speed and power and look less like little kids. And for a new team, Nguyen/Kolesnik are really good and scored very well, a few points behind G/S, Greens, and L/B, but not so far behind that it's impossible to imagine them bridging the gap by Nationals.

It's going to be an intense battle to make the junior world team, junior nationals should be extremely interesting. I hope Lewis/Bye build on this and improve, they have a real chance to build and improve for JGP Australia and possibly win the whole thing, they did beat Polsichuk/Vakhnov in the SD. Gropman Somerville will be looking to make their mark there as well.

Carreira/Ponomarenko have really improved and matured, I was impressed with their technical upgrades and interpretation. I'm sure they'll face tough competition from Shpilevaya/Smirnov and Skoptcova/Aleshin, but they've definitely started their season well.

 

[Lara111]

A little premature to put Nguyen/Kolesnik in the mix with CP, L/B or G/S. They should get a spot at international competitions and we will see how they do.

 

[peibeck]

McNamara/Carpenter look good for the SA host pick... hoping Parsons can pick up another spot.

As Jr World champs and having a higher season standing, I still think the Parsons have an edge to get Skate America, despite the Lake Placid result. It won't be easy for whomever gets that slot anyway. The SA ice dance field is really deep.

I suspect both McNamara/Carpenter and the Parsons will get some early senior B's before the GP begins.

I'm wondering if the Japanese fed will fill their extra slot with Hirai/De La Asuncion? Seems odd they aren't already slotted. (I'm guessing Marien cannot compete for Japan at the Olympics.)

 

[chameleonster]

As Jr World champs and having a higher season standing, I still think the Parsons have an edge to get Skate America, despite the Lake Placid result. It won't be easy for whomever gets that slot anyway. The SA ice dance field is really deep.

I suspect both McNamara/Carpenter and the Parsons will get some early senior B's before the GP begins.

I'm wondering if the Japanese fed will fill their extra slot with Hirai/De La Asuncion? Seems odd they aren't already slotted. (I'm guessing Marien cannot compete for Japan at the Olympics.)

Hirai/De La Asuncion retired a few months ago. I suppose they could invite Kommatsubara/Koleto instead?

As for SA, I always thought it was a tossup between the two teams, might come down to monitoring. I do hope they can both get two in the end, however that ends up happening.

 

[aftershocks]

I can understand if copyrighted links were removed, and I'm sorry for posting such. I wasn't aware they were copyrighted. I don't understand why the comments in my earlier post were also deleted.

Pogrebinsky/Benoit... I've never really liked them and don't understand that hype about them. I feel like they're slow and trying to hard but it's not working. Whatever they do it doesn't look like a dance to me.

I like Pog/Ben and their FD has potential. Their SD was good, not spectacular. They are a competitive, well-matched team with good looks and budding skills. I wouldn't count them out competitively, nor in their ability to steadily improve. The lift error in their FD was bad luck, but they did seem to be struggling slightly even before the miscue.

I think the more edgy, modern music choice for Pog/Ben is brave, as it is not necessarily a selection that enhances what they are good at with their long, lean lines. Also, we've heard this music famously used among several pairs teams in past seasons. It's cool that Pog/Ben are trying to broaden their range. Still, it's difficult to do something unique with music that conjures up other memorable programs in a different discipline. Even P/B's dynamic on the ice in this FD and a few of their removes immediately called to my mind James/Cipres' Earned It sp from last season. Of course, this is only the debut, and so P/B will have an opportunity to fine-tune and make this program more fully their own if they are committed to it.

 

[peibeck]

Hirai/De La Asuncion retired a few months ago. I suppose they could invite Kommatsubara/Koleto instead?

Ah, thanks! I missed that news.

 

[platniumangel]

Just curious if you think there was significant International deflation/ domestic inflation of all teams, or of certain teams?

The differential in points given out between international vs domestic was noticeable, it was definitely a big topic of conversation at the event. Not sure why the international event would be judged so differently.... but this was definitely noticed.

 

[Lara111]

Can you give an example? I think top teams at International were a bit inflated comparing to top teams at domestic.

 

[Lara111]

Skills level of the teams in international vs domestic was about the same with scores in about the same range except for the top teams.

 

[Dobre]

The differential in points given out between international vs domestic was noticeable, it was definitely a big topic of conversation at the event. Not sure why the international event would be judged so differently.... but this was definitely noticed.

Which teams do you feel were scored unequally relative to each other at Lake Placid?

If you use total scores from both competitions at Lake Placid, you get very similar rankings to those handed out at the Chesapeake Open. I haven't double checked my math so feel free to correct it if any of the numbers are incorrect:

Junior Ice Dance Championships

Carreira & Ponomarenko. 149.76
Lewis & Bye. 132.88
Green & Green. 132.86
Gropman & Somerville 129.1
Nguyen & Kolesnik. 122.32
Gunter & Wein. 111.92
Amoia & Becker- 107.15 (missed a full set of twizzles and had a number of errors)
Cesanek & Usanov. 104.14 (had a fall)
Efimova & Petrov. 102.23
The Elders 100.75 (had a fall)
Haines & Koszuta 93.23. (had a fall and a couple other errors)
DelCamp & Gart. 89.62


DelCamp & Gart didn't compete at the Chesapeake Open, and considering that the Elders counted a fall, it is plausible that D&G were judged under a harsher standard relative to teams in the LPIDC. Based on Nationals and the Bavarian Open last year, the Elders and D&G are in the same ballpark when skating clean.

Otherwise, I see no major shocks in the results. I do have to agree that the Texas Open results seem more out of line; but with Gropman & Somerville and Nguyen & Kolesnik counting major errors there, that may be the explanation. N&K are new so they only have a short record and errors are not a surprise at this stage of the partnership, but the results they do have indicate that their scoring potential is higher than most of the junior teams. I think the top six teams on the list have made their case. I suspect Amoia & Becker will get one because he has JGP experience and their result here is an international score. Cesanek & Usanov and Haines & Koszuta haven't earned the required ISP score as of now. As for the remaining teams, your guess is as good as mine.

As far as last year's novices go, there were split placements throughout the novice event at Nationals. It isn't surprising that these teams have been swapping scores. The fact is that the JGP will be a very different test for anyone who wins a spot.

I would assume that teams will have to meet a specific score in their first event in order to earn a second one. We won't know how many teams will earn two spots until they go out and compete in their first event. (Gropman & Somerville defeated Lewis & Bye during the FD in the Lake Placid International last season but still didn't earn a second spot with their score in France on the JGP. And Gunter & Wein had the same placement as L&B at their first event but didn't earn one either so I assume there is a score that must be reached). Not everyone will get a JGP. A few teams--Haines & Koszuta and Cesanek & Usanov--probably lost their shot to be added to the ISP right here. And based on their relative placements, they had a shot. (Is the Dance Chicago competition being held again this year?) Last year, there were also opportunities to compete internationally at the NRW Trophy and Bavarian Open so some ISP teams may go there instead.

Regardless, sometimes you don't get in the first season out. Gropman & Somerville didn't make it out of sectionals their first season in Juniors. It's dance. It's a long journey.

 

[Sylvia]

JGP assignments so far:

Brisbane, Australia:
Chloe LEWIS / Logan BYE (J4)
Eliana GROPMAN / Ian SOMERVILLE (J6)

Salzburg, Austria:
Christina CARREIRA / Anthony PONOMARENKO (J2/JW3)
Isabella AMOIA / Luca BECKER (new) - her Team USA debut

Listed subs:
Katarina DELCAMP / Maxwell GART (N2)
Alina EFIMOVA / Alexander PETROV (J7)
Sophia ELDER / Christopher ELDER (N3)
Caroline GREEN / Gordon GREEN (J5)
Emma GUNTER / Caleb WEIN (J9)
Avonley NGUYEN / Vadym KOLESNIK (new)