The Dance Hall 7: Tripping the Light Fantastic 2019-2020

[casken]

Today in Sharon Rodger's universe, C&B are on the same level as P&C, but G&F are down with S&D.

What kind of deal do you think the Brits made to have their judge mark this way? Maybe the USA throws their number 3 team under the bus for F&G to get well into the top ten, and the Brits help prop up the Americans?

I mean, even the Spanish judge just tied G&F and S&D, they didn't have the balls to completely disregard reality the way the USA and Brit judges did.

 

[wickedwitch]

What kind of deal do you think the Brits made to have their judge mark this way? Maybe the USA throws their number 3 team under the bus for F&G to get well into the top ten, and the Brits help prop up the Americans?

I mean, even the Spanish judge just tied G&F and S&D, they didn't have the balls to completely disregard reality the way the USA and Brit judges did.

Gadbois needed C/B to take silver, and presumably the British judge is "theirs" so....

 

[Debbie S]

Gadbois needed C/B to take silver, and presumably the British judge is "theirs" so....

But the GBR judge was kind of harsh on C/B yesterday, per the Skating Scores calculations. Placing them behind S/D?

 

[millyskate]

Olivia Smart used to be British, right? Any connection?

 

[Gris]

I just read a comment on a Chinese FS board saying that the style of Fame RD would suit H/D more than P/C. Although I disagree, I cannot stop picturing that in my head now.

 

[barbarafan]

But the GBR judge was kind of harsh on C/B yesterday, per the Skating Scores calculations. Placing them behind S/D?

The GBR judge was tough on everyone. Israel, Canada, US and GBR brought their glasses.
More than any judge the problems were the levels. I really like F&G and feel really sorry about his hand but they were quite good but the levels werre way out of line..F&G rec'd level 4's on everything..him and her. This is nonsense.

Tech controller- Cesaro (Italy)
Specialist- Sergei Baronov (Ukraine)
assist. specialist- Joanna Budner (Poland)

What could go wrong

Nothing to see here folks

Judging to match.

Poland way overscored last yr

 

[bcash]

I just read a comment on a Chinese FS board saying that the style of Fame RD would suit H/D more than P/C. Although I disagree, I cannot stop picturing that in my head now.

The thing is Fame was about younger people and feels young in tone, which I think suits P/C better than H/D.

 

[marbri]

The thing is Fame was about younger people and feels young in tone, which I think suits P/C better than H/D.

Fame is about a high school for the performing arts so I don't think it matters much in terms of authenticity if someone in their mid-twenties skates to it vs someone in their late twenties. In most cases both age groups are finished college

 

[dramagrrl]

H&D are skating to Smash, which Jeremy Jordan was in.

Jeremy Jordan was not in the season of Smash that the song H/D are using came from, nor was he in any of the songs from the fictional Marilyn Monroe musical in the show (where "Let's Be Bad", the song H/D are using, was from). He was in the second season and was the writer/star of the rival musical.

 

[Dobre]

Teams that have earned a level 4 on the Finnstep:
Challenger Level & Above
(Teams that have been added since the last update are in bold).

Chock & Bates-U.S. Classic
Hubbell & Donohue-Skate America
Fournier-Beaudry & Sorensen-Skate America
Popova & Mozgov-Skate Canada
Guignard & Fabbri-Internationaux de France
Carreira & Ponomarenko-Asian Open

 

[Dobre]

Also . . . I guess we have better data now of what it takes to lose points for mucking up your sliding choreo element.

I feel a tad guilty for mentioning that in the opening post here . . . but not too much. The one for Zagorski & Guerreiro was pretty obvious. I'm going to have to go back and watch Smart & Diaz's as I missed that one (which is pretty funny because it is the only program I watched twice; however, the reason I watched it twice was because the stream was going blurry).

 

[bcash]

Fame is about a high school for the performing arts so I don't think it matters much in terms of authenticity if someone in their mid-twenties skates to it vs someone in their late twenties. In most cases both age groups are finished college

Not talking about actual age obviously. Young people dreaming and starting out on their life. Compared to Marilyn? Definitely the latter fits H/D better.

 

[taz'smum]

Also . . . I guess we have better data now of what it takes to lose points for mucking up your sliding choreo element.

I feel a tad guilty for mentioning that in the opening post here . . . but not too much. The one for Zagorski & Guerreiro was pretty obvious. I'm going to have to go back and watch Smart & Diaz's as I missed that one (which is pretty funny because it is the only program I watched twice; however, the reason I watched it twice was because the stream was going blurry).

jon’s blade Cut tiff’s knee and blocked her from finishing the move

 

[casken]

Any word on Fabbri's prognosis? How long they expect him to be in the splint?

 

[Dobre]

Kazakova & Reviya met their World minimums at the Asian Open so one assumes we can expect to see them at Europeans & Worlds.

Ning & Wang and Ren & Karpushov met theirs also and Guo & Zhao apparently earned theirs at the Shanghai Trophy so I think China now has 5 dance teams with World minimums.

 

[Wyliefan]

jon’s blade Cut tiff’s knee and blocked her from finishing the move

Poor Tiff, her knees just can't catch a break!

 

[synian]

isu published a resume of the free danse https://isu.org/figure-skating/news...th-grand-prix-gold-in-france?templateParam=15

and for the Rythm danse : https://isu.org/figure-skating/news...-on-home-ice-in-rhythm-dance?templateParam=15

 

[taz'smum]

Any word on Fabbri's prognosis? How long they expect him to be in the splint?

The splint was only for the competitions, as it was just too dangerous without.

Marco told me that the tendon in his hand was partially severed and he was operated on in September.
The were considering pulling out on Monday, but then decided just to see how it went in the official practices and make a decision then. Their programs had to be adapted to allow for the fact that he had no use of that arm.
Total respect, both Charlene and Marco are rockstars!

Marco said he has been incredibly lucky with injuries, this is his first real injury.

 

[PRlady]

The splint was only for the competitions, as it was just too dangerous without.

Marco told me that the tendon in his hand was partially severed and he was operated on in September.
The were considering pulling out on Monday, but then decided just to see how it went in the official practices and make a decision then. Their programs had to be adapted to allow for the fact that he had no use of that arm.
Total respect, both Charlene and Marco are rockstars!

Marco said he has been incredibly lucky with injuries, this is his first real injury.

That is amazing and frightening.

G/F were a team I never much liked. I hated their Holocaust program in particular. Then came LaLa Land which I thought was charming and the best program reflecting the movie.

I don’t know why the astronaut program moves me so much but it does. It’s by far my favorite FD of the season.
And I guess I had best admit that, although like Andrey I could watch P/C skate to the phone book, I wish they weren’t. Fame and the Sheeran RD show what they can do with fun and whimsy and I’d love to see more of that.

 

[muffinplus]

I am a fan of P/C's skating, but the FD this year really doesn't strike me as anything different or interesting from what they've done style wise...Other than the voiceover, music wise it's in a very similar vein to 2017. I don't think their programs are exactly the same for the record. If anything, I thought last year's was more of a departure because it was more literal, and had a 'storyline'. It was a "warmer" program, which I definitely prefer to this year's.

 

[Dobre]

This would probably be a good time to say that I really like Papadakis & Cizeron's new free dance. It's going on my list, along with Guignard & Fabbri's and Stepanova & Bukin's. Think Hawayek & Baker's has a lot of potential too.

Anyway, I put off watching P&C's FD until Internationaux de France because I generally enjoy watching programs more under the excitement of competition (which is decidedly lacking in the race for the top spot at French Masters), and the feedback coming in on the board wasn't all that great for the FD so I figured better to wait until they had more time to polish and we had better camera footage. Anyway, I just wanted to have the best first impression possible.

And I really like the program. (A million times better than that snoozy thing last season). This FD has a different feel, some original movement, and P&C execute those original skills well. The upside down lift could so easily look ugly, but she's very flat and uses those long limbs to effect.

There's been a lot of fuss about the poem, but I didn't really listen to it. I can see how it can be distracting, but I also figure it was a source of inspiration. The program does have a bit of an Anissina & Peizerat feel, but in a good way. And I like the dark feeling for P&C. It was what I liked about the first portion of their FD back in 2016-17. Anyway, I like the movement and overall feel. It's a winner for me, and that makes it easily my favorite FD of their career.

 

[casken]

^^^^^

I actually think they performed the FD better at the test skate. More freedom, and there were some minor choreographic differences that I thought were better there. Here they seemed like they were kind of behind the music at the end and rushed through the ending positions, whereas it was timed better and had more impact at the test skate.

 

[Ka3sha]

Ice Dance has always been one of my favorite disciplines and I still enjoy watching it, but I just can’t stand new rules.
I don’t understand how a choreographic element with base value of 1 point can have 2 or even 3 points in GOE. I don’t understand how skaters with level 2 pattern get higher scores for that element than teams with level 4 pattern. And etc.

I miss those old, good, difficult step sequences, including one leg stsq in short (rhythm) dances.. I miss actual skating..
Overall quality of skating should be appreciated, as should essential qualities like skating skills, edges, knee work, distance between partners and etc. But now crowd-pleasing and entertaining things like choreo elements can bring you more points than actual elements.

 

[Dobre]

Ice Dance has always been one of my favorite disciplines and I still enjoy watching it, but I just can’t stand new rules.
I don’t understand how a choreographic element with base value of 1 point can have 2 or even 3 points in GOE. I don’t understand how skaters with level 2 pattern get higher scores for that element than teams with level 4 pattern. And etc.

I miss those old, good, difficult step sequences, including one leg stsq in short (rhythm) dances.. I miss actual skating..
Overall quality of skating should be appreciated, as should essential qualities like skating skills, edges, knee work, distance between partners and etc. But now crowd-pleasing and entertaining things like choreo elements can bring you more points than actual elements.

It's driving me nuts.

Last year, we at least knew that all the teams bringing in strong scores were capable of delivering the technical goods. But this year, this is not the case. And it is more & more apparent that we've slipped back in time to a point where your last performance has a major impact on your scores and the technical delivery of the performance on the day is unlikely to be rewarded until your next performance (or the one after that if you can prove you can deliver the b.v. twice in a row).

 

[MarieM]

Protocol judging is back in full force. And IMO, the ISU has been wanting this to happen at one point or another. It took longer than expected.

IMO level 4 elements should be awarded a bonus.

 

[thvu]

The calls from the Technical Panel had so much more weight in during the last cycle. Each level for a step sequence was worth 1.5 points, which back then could literally decide rankings.

Last season was the turn IMO. The Tech Panel's calls had drastically less influence. The difference in step sequences, twizzles, and OF Steps all became .50 points per level. So low compared to before, while levels and spins stayed at 1.00 difference in levels. The levels for the lifts and spins became so much more important than making sure you hit L4 for steps. With the expanded values for GOEs, choreographic elements going to Max GOE of 4.15, the judges got way more influence and power over results. This is what I think is bringing back protocol judging, that judges have more of a say in the final rankings.

The technical committee has flattened all level differences to 0.75 points (0.74 for twizzles and ofsteps, partial steps), which I think is a good start. What I think they need to do is lower the GOEs for choreographic elements. Currently, teams can earn up to 12.45 points from GOE on the 3 choreographic elements. That is just way too high IMO. The max GOE total from the Twizzles, One-Foot Steps, and Step Sequence is 12.12, less than the total for the choreographic elements which I think is ridiculous.

 

[Dobre]

But now crowd-pleasing and entertaining things like choreo elements can bring you more points than actual elements.

And as we all know, "crowd-pleasing" often depends on where you are skating because figure skating crowds, especially during ice dance events, often withhold applause when a team is major competition for the local or home country favorites. It even happens at the national level and/or smaller competitions where big or local clubs and even big families can rev up an audience or withhold approval.

 

[clairecloutier]

Overall quality of skating should be appreciated, as should essential qualities like skating skills, edges, knee work, distance between partners and etc. But now crowd-pleasing and entertaining things like choreo elements can bring you more points than actual elements.

Hear, hear .... I very much agree! Skating skills, in particular, should be given much more credit than they sometimes seem to receive. And also quality and ease of partnering.

What I think they need to do is lower the GOEs for choreographic elements. Currently, teams can earn up to 12.45 points from GOE on the 3 choreographic elements. That is just way too high IMO. The max GOE total from the Twizzles, One-Foot Steps, and Step Sequence is 12.12, less than the total for the choreographic elements which I think is ridiculous.

I agree, this is nuts. As I said in the IdF dance PBP, the choreographic elements are great & fun elements, but no way should they be worth so much in the score. IMO they should be worth more than the ChSeq in singles/pairs programs (which is not very much), but less than they're worth now.


And to follow up on what @Dobre said about crowd-pleasing programs, I also worry that we could get to a state where everybody is going to be choosing Vogue and disco just because that's what gets the crowds going ....

 

[Khaleesi]

I’ve watched P/C’s FD from IdF 3X now, but I’m just not getting into it try as I may. This is the first time I keep losing interest in a FD of theirs before the performance is over. Oh well. I’m loving the RD though.

Where can I find skaters that are already qualified for the GPF?

 

[Colonel Green]

Where can I find skaters that are already qualified for the GPF?

The only dance team that has already qualified is Hubbell/Donohue.