The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[Peepsquick]

Carol Lane is quite gifted at choreograhy but I really dislike her sweet-sour style, when it comes to commentating. She should stick to being the awesome trainer she is. I was really into P/G's Tango from 2 seasons ago.

 

[chantilly]

Carol Lane is quite gifted at choreograhy but I really dislike her sweet-sour style, when it comes to commentating. She should stick to being the awesome trainer she is. I was really into P/G's Tango from 2 seasons ago.

I really don’t think there’s as many issues with her commentating as people say.

She’s said some provocative things here and there. But nothing that hasn’t been said here on this forum.

She’s also been highly complimentary of several skaters across all disciplines.

 

[MarieM]

She has her good and bad days. Like everyone of us.

But this year, at least, her FD for G&P is a hit

 

[Peepsquick]

I really don’t think there’s as many issues with her commentating as people say.

She’s said some provocative things here and there. But nothing that hasn’t been said here on this forum.

She’s also been highly complimentary of several skaters across all disciplines.

No big deal, but as a professional, she is bound to higher standards than bloggers, I would say.

 

[VGThuy]

I was sort of amazed watching the CBC videos of the FD that she cited two teams as being underscored by the judges in the SD. One was Weaver/Poje and the other were the Shibs. Two teams that were in more-or-less direct competition with Gilles/Poirier.

 

[muffinplus]

I think it's not Gadbois that's being criticized for similar programs,i think it's specifically MFD. How many of the programs she has choreographed been different from one another ( I'm not saying they are all the same , I just don't know)

It seems like the Gadbois programs people are liking have been choreographed by Romain

 

[Peepsquick]

I was sort of amazed watching the CBC videos of the FD that she cited two teams as being underscored by the judges in the SD. One was Weaver/Poje and the other were the Shibs. Two teams that were in more-or-less direct competition with Gilles/Poirier.

She has always been very complimentary of the Shibs. She admires their wonderful technique and has an affinity with their program, I think.

 

[MarieM]

I think it's not Gadbois that's being criticized for similar programs,i think it's specifically MFD. How many of the programs she has choreographed been different from one another ( I'm not saying they are all the same , I just don't know)

It seems like the Gadbois programs people are liking have been choreographed by Romain

Yep all the goods ones this season are from Romain. Fear&Gibson's FD, the RD for Smart&Diaz. Really, he has interesting ideas (always had) but it's been a long time since any skaters has done a good job with his ideas. Mozart BTW was his idea.

 

[binbinwinwin]

I think Gadbois have produced some really solid programs this season which is really impressive because they have to do so many but at ACI all the teams were Gadbois except for Lanaghan/Razgulajevs and Weaver/Poje but I felt like L/R's overall choreography and program composition felt the most refreshing out of the teams there. There was a something a bit samey across the Gadbois programs. In addition to Piper and Paul's programs this season, Carol Lane has done a really good job this season, I wonder if her working with a smaller group of skaters allows her to stay creative and get more innovative.

 

[kittysk8ts]

I was sort of amazed watching the CBC videos of the FD that she cited two teams as being underscored by the judges in the SD. One was Weaver/Poje and the other were the Shibs. Two teams that were in more-or-less direct competition with Gilles/Poirier.

I love Carol and her candour. I find her commentary fair and she gives more tech detail in dance than anyone (except maybe Tanith). Although I do understand that not everyone appreciates her. .

In fact, I would love for someone to interview her. Hint to a certain new skating show, giggle. (@mysticchic)

 

[barbarafan]

I really don’t think there’s as many issues with her commentating as people say.

She’s said some provocative things here and there. But nothing that hasn’t been said here on this forum.

She’s also been highly complimentary of several skaters across all disciplines.

I think she has been warned about her snark.
CBC is public broadcasting. She is really good but when she has had any really good team other than G&P they get garbage programs...There are some moves from new FD which she had done for Paul and Vanessa recycled.

 

[starrynight]

It seems like the Gadbois programs people are liking have been choreographed by Romain

Yes. He's also the main choreographer for Lagoi/Lagha too.

But then, he was also the one that approved the rather middle of the road choice of Kissing You for Hubbell/Donohue.

It may be the case that the more junior teams are more willing to be experimented on and the other senior teams (especially the ones who made the recent trip to Gadbois such as Howayek/Baker) want the full Marie-France special (and are may be there for precisely that reason). It's always hard to know what the choice of the coaches is vs the students.

It's also really had to say whether Gadbois is doing this or that at the moment. Someone said earlier that Gadbois teams were struggling to get the levels in the RD. Who knows if that's Gadbois or just the fact that teams struggle with the pattern and Gadbois has 18 of them so it looks like all their teams struggle.

It's basically Gadbois vs the Russians at the moment. With a few token non-Russian additions of Guignard/Fabbri, Gilles/Poirier, Weaver/Poje .

 

[lauravvv]

Carol Lane is quite gifted at choreograhy

Juris Razgulajevs is the other choreograher of that camp. Actually, I have always thought that Carol Lane is more of a technical coach and Razgulajevs is mostly responsible for the choreography, but I may be (at least partially) mistaken.

 

[Peepsquick]

you may be right... I don't know enough about the set-up.

 

[yurokis40]

I think she has been warned about her snark.
CBC is public broadcasting. She is really good but when she has had any really good team other than G&P they get garbage programs...There are some moves from new FD which she had done for Paul and Vanessa recycled.

not really the only move recycled is at the very beginning in the opening nothing else, Piper is much better than Vanessa Crone who was very weak.

 

[Colonel Green]

Yes. He's also the main choreographer for Lagoi/Lagha too.

But then, he was also the one that approved the rather middle of the road choice of Kissing You for Hubbell/Donohue.

It may be the case that the more junior teams are more willing to be experimented on and the other senior teams (especially the ones who made the recent trip to Gadbois such as Howayek/Baker) want the full Marie-France special (and are may be there for precisely that reason). It's always hard to know what the choice of the coaches is vs the students.

In the case of Lajoie and Lagha's programs, they (or Zach, really) were the ones who found the music they're skating to.

Which also highlights, as you say, that the contributions of the dancers themselves are an important variable.

not really the only move recycled is at the very beginning in the opening nothing else, Piper is much better than Vanessa Crone who was very weak.

It's kind of inevitable that when you choreograph hundreds of programs there will be similar moves in them, anyway. There's only so many variations.

Another Romain program that I really like this year is the Malaguena/Carmen Suite free dance he created for Natalie D'Alessandro and Bruce Waddell (who aren't even a Gadbois team).

 

[yurokis40]

I like Hawayek and Baker's fd very much, the SD not so much , they are similarities to PC, but for now they have a good chance of becoming US national silver medalists depending on what happens with chock and bates.

 

[dramagrrl]

not really the only move recycled is at the very beginning in the opening nothing else, Piper is much better than Vanessa Crone who was very weak.

Completely disagree on the last point. Also, I have been a fan of Lane and Razgulajevs' teams, especially their choreo, since they were coaching mostly no-name juniors back in the early 2000s, but I do have a problem with Carol Lane being a commentator on a national broadcasting channel. My issue isn't so much with her actual commentary (although she has said some petty and stupid things like the infamous "Oh, it's Russia" comment last season); my issue is more that I don't think someone who is actively the main coach for a highly-ranked internationally competitive senior team should be doing commentary on their competitors, especially not at competitions where her own team is actually competing. To me, that's a blatant conflict of interest and it should not be allowed.

 

[yurokis40]

Vanessa Crone had a stiff upper body and weak lines, Piper knows how to project to the audience and judges and has terrific lines and musicality.

 

[casken]

Vanessa Crone had a stiff upper body and weak lines, Piper knows how to project to the audience and judges and has terrific lines and musicality.

I like G&P a lot, but line is not one of her strengths at all.

Yep all the goods ones this season are from Romain. Fear&Gibson's FD, the RD for Smart&Diaz. Really, he has interesting ideas (always had) but it's been a long time since any skaters has done a good job with his ideas. Mozart BTW was his idea.

Who was primarily responsible for Laurialt & Le Gac's FD? Normally I'm not into that style of FD, but I thought there were great at Skate Canada and surprised to see another of this successful FD in this style (the other being F&G) out of the Dubreuil camp.

 

[Spun Silver]

She has always been very complimentary of the Shibs. She admires their wonderful technique and has an affinity with their program, I think.

Could be an example of the Uber Matrix.

 

[overedge]

Vanessa Crone had a stiff upper body and weak lines

"Weak" is not a word that accurately describes any part of Crone's skating.

 

[oleada]

"Weak" is not a word that accurately describes any part of Crone's skating.

Sure describes her posture

 

[Peepsquick]

I like G&P a lot, but line is not one of her strengths at all.

I agree!

Who was primarily responsible for Laurialt & Le Gac's FD? Normally I'm not into that style of FD, but I thought there were great at Skate Canada and surprised to see another of this successful FD in this style (the other being F&G) out of the Dubreuil camp.

I think it is Romain.

 

[overedge]

Sure describes her posture

Hmm, I'd have to disagree with that too.

 

[jmtfti]

Broadly speaking, if a Gadbois program utilizes rhythm and/or is intended to evoke a specifically recognizable genre of dance (individual ballroom styles, vernacular or social dances, etc.), it's Romain's.

 

[Dobre]

So these are about 4 interesting topics:

-Stand out programs by non-star teams in big clubs.
-Different choreographers within the same club.
-Programs that stand out as being "different" from a particular choreographer's main body of work.
-Teams that take on responsibility for artistic choices (be it music or choreography) and how that often develops as a team matures and/or requires more of a challenge or unique look in order to stand out among the elite.

I could probably go on & on about all of them, but what I want to talk about even more is a different phenomenon: What happens when you are already a top team with a strong fan base and you break out of your "typical" style.

Here's what I often see: Your non-fan base loves it. Your traditional fan base doesn't. I remember reading a comment by @VIETgrlTerifa one time saying that though she never liked Grishuk & Platov, she did appreciate their Fred & Ginger FD.

As a G&P fan, I'd say Fred & Ginger is probably way down on the list of programs for most Grishuk & Platov fans. It wasn't particularly unique. It was right after T&D's Fred & Ginger and Moniotte & Lavanchy's. It was during the "toe-tapping rhythms" rule period when we, therefore, were inundated by Fred & Gingers. And Grishuk & Platov were out all season due to injury so they only performed it internationally the one time at Worlds and didn't have the chance to polish up the performance. Not anywhere near their best, IMO. But apparently, that was not the response of someone outside the fandom.

I had the same feeling last season with my own personal reaction to Papadakis & Cizeron's SD. I really liked it. Absolutely my favorite program by them since their Finnstep back in 2014. This definitely seemed to be the opposite reaction to most P&C fans, who largely seemed to feel like it was P&C's weaker program for the season. My guess is that most P&C fans do not consider it to be one of their "Greatest Hits." But I really liked it. It drew from a different fan base.

So here, in a nutshell, is the challenge for established dance teams when they break out of their own personal box.

How do you stretch and develop that new fanbase without being inundated by disappointment from your typical fans? How do you make it through those first difficult months when of course the scores are down due to the programs lacking polish and get those programs into the home stretch? And how do you have the guts to keep going after something different long enough to make it sing? Quite a challenge. I admire the teams that work at it, make the program stronger as the season goes on, and surprise us all by eventually mastering a style or program that we may not have loved initially.

(And sometimes, I really just wished they had chucked it before they ever selected the music in the first place).

Quite a challenge.

 

[VGThuy]

I appreciated the Fred & Ginger attempt because they were trying to do some actual traditional dancing rather than their later season theatrics. My favorite Grishuk/Platov FDs were "St. James Infirmary" and their 1991-1992 Kryzler & Kompany FD. I did enjoy "Memorial" at the 1997-1998 GPF, but I don't like it any other time.

 

[Dobre]

Which is so interesting because I thought it was a bizarre choice the year after T&D's. Even Oksana later said that if Evgeny had not been injured, they would have changed the program to their Latin FD a year earlier. I liked the program in the ways that I liked all of Grishuk & Platov's programs. Super fast and interesting footwork. But for me, the most traditional and least "stretch" of any of their World Championship medal-winning FDs.

 

[VGThuy]

Which is so interesting because I thought it was a bizarre choice the year after T&D's. Even Oksana later said that if Evgeny had not been injured, they would have changed the program to their Latin FD a year earlier.

. That's honestly one of the worst Worlds winning FDs I've ever seen. G/P deserved to win based on skill alone, but my gosh...