The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[topaz]

It will be interesting to see how the S/B look skating alongside 5 of the top 8 teams in the world. I think Alexandra's skills are going to be noticeably weaker against S/K, H/D, G/F.

 

[muffinplus]

I'm also curious whether judges will build them up as Russian number ones at Russian nationals...

 

[topaz]

I'm also curious whether judges will build them up as Russian number ones at Russian nationals...

It's going to be interesting because I can't imagine Zhulin allowing this. Granted S/B have a strong support system aka politics. S/K's programs are both very good and their RD is one of my favorites of the season(I would have as my 2nd or 3 favorite). I think S/K can definitely win Nationals. They can beat S/B at GPF too(if they skate clean). S/K have had so many issues but they look very strong this season, especially Victoria. I'm rooting for them based on their improvements and the strength of their programs.

 

[Cayuse]

Should they score above a clean Hubbell/Donohue or the Italians or SinKats ( if all skate cleanly)? Not in my book, but they are definitely building their rep and i think judges are signaling that they will

Breathe people. When all the top teams skate at the SAME competition, the scoring will be much tighter and more realistic. S/B had no competitors on their level at Rostelecom.

 

[muffinplus]

Breathe people. When all the top teams skate at the SAME competition, the scoring will be much tighter and more realistic. S/B had no competitors on their level at Rostelecom.

I know but once a team's PCS and GOE start rising...

 

[Peepsquick]

I like the energy and moves of Natalia Kaliszek and Maksym Spoddyriev. They really DANCE out there. Their lines are not the best and they tend to lose speed but that have something special. They have a voice of their own. I hope to see them get some momentum ...

 

[mollymgr]

I'm also curious whether judges will build them up as Russian number ones at Russian nationals...

I hope they do. They would be foolish not to given all the problems all the other Russian teams have with consistency and stability. They have a good crop of junior teams too so it would be best for the fed to motivate those who are showing promise. These new teams are really good at such a young age. I can’t imagine how good they will be with a few years under their belt.

 

[MarieM]

Alexandra has energy and charisma but she's not elegant. Also, in specific elements yeah the judges can deny them the high scores. This is ice dance, edge quality matters. Knee bends matter. Dancer qualities like extension and toe point matter. She can look sloppy at times. The exits out of the lifts can be sloppy and look labored. These things should effect the GOE, but they are not.

All of this should matter. But with those +5 GOE, the judges can do whatever the feck they wish.
I wish them to be impeached with roses. The judges.

 

[Ka3sha]

Some notes from Rostelecom, the field wasn’t great but still:

-Anthony is a really good, bit old school partner Sometimes it’s impossible to believe that he’s just 17 and it’s their first senior season.

- Sara and Kirill skate really close to each other, which is nice. I can only thank Zhulin for this, as both his teams stand out in this particular aspect this year.
I totally lurved their FD, might be my 2nd favorite dance of the season so far

- I miss Zueva’s choreo.
Lithuanian team has very nice choreographed programs. Nothing spectacular, but very modest and stylish.

- I honestly don’t know, what to say about Stepanova/Bukin. Today they skated with great energy and power, but yesterday was kind of underwhelming - she just gave up after that mistake in the latter. Actually, they got the same TES today as they did in Helsinki, so it’s just their PCS, whic has grown a lot in two weeks.
Am sorry, but 9,46 for SS is a travesty.

 

[kittysk8ts]

Anyone else think Sara and Kirill were fabulous in the FD today? They moved me with this performance.

Ps - oops sorry @Ka3sha !

 

[VGThuy]

This post:

So five different US teams have medaled in a Grand Prix this season. That’s got to be a record, right?

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...18-19-season-news-updates.104092/post-5462731

Made me look it up to see if a new record was set, and it was! With Carreira/Ponomarenko's medal at Rostelecom, the U.S. set the record for most ice dance teams winning medals in a single GP series.

Here's what I found in my research:

Yes, it's a new record. It's also impressive as that's without Chock/Bates and the Shibs (Chock/Bates medaling in the GP series since 2013-2014 and the Shibs since 2010-2011, their senior debut season). Also, in 2015-2016, the U.S. were the first country to qualify three ice dance teams in the GPF, and they did it three seasons straight.

The closest to five has been four. These are the times where four teams from a single country medaled in the GP series:

In the 2015-2016 season Russia had four teams medal in the GP series (Bobrova/Soloviev; Sinitsina/Katalapov; Iliynkh/Zhiganshin; and Stepanova/Bukin). Both B/S and S/K came away with a silver and a bronze.​

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In the 2014-2015 season, the U.S. had four teams medal in the GP series (Chock/Bates with gold and silver; the Shibs with two silvers; Hubbell/Donohue with two bronzes; and Hawayek/Baker with a bronze).​

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The U.S. also had four in 2013-2014 (Davis/White; the Shibs; Chock/Bates, and Hubbell/Donohue with the first three teams winning two medals).​

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In 2012-2013, Russia had four teams medal in the GP series (Bobrova/Soloviev; Ilinykh/Katsalapov; Riazanova/Tkachenko; and Sinitsina/Zhiganshin) with the first three teams winning two medals. The U.S. only had two (Davis/White and the Shibs).​

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In 1997-1998, four Russian teams medaled (Grishuk/Platov; Krylova/Ovysiannikov; Lobacheva/Averbukh; and Semenovich/Fedorov). Could have been five with Navka/Morosov medaling at Cup of Russia, but they represented Belarus.​

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In the 1995-1996 season, four Russian teams medaled (Grishuk/Platov; Krylova/Ovysiannikov; Lobacheva/Averbukh; Semenovich/Federov).​

In the following years, three teams from a single country medaled in the GP series and that was the most teams to medal during those seasons:

As we know, since 2013-2014, the U.S. has had at least three teams medal in the GP series.

In 2010-2011, both the U.S. and Russia had three teams win medals (Davis/White, the Shibs, Chock/Zuerlein); (Bobrova/Soloviev; Ilinykh/Katsalapov; Riazanova/Tkachenko).​

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In 2009-2010, Canada had the most with three teams winning medals (Virtue/Moir; Crone/Poirier; and Weaver/Poje).​

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In 2008-2009, there were three U.S. teams that medaled (Belbin/Agosto; Davis/White; Samuelson/Bates).​

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In 2007-2008, there were three French teams that medaled (Delobel/Schoenfelder; Pechelat/Bourzat; and Carron/Jost).​

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In 2002-2003, three Russian teams medaled (Lobacheva/Averbukh; Navka/Kostomorov; and Kulikova/Markov...who medaled at Skate Canada over eventual World bronze medalists that season Denkova/Staviyski).​

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In 1998-1999, three Russian teams medaled (Krylova/Ovsiannikov; Lobacheva/Averbukh; and Navka/Kostomorov all at Cup of Russia with K/O and L/A winning two medals).​

 

[suki]

Some notes from Rostelecom, the field wasn’t great but still:

-Anthony is a really good, bit old school partner Sometimes it’s impossible to believe that he’s just 17 and it’s their first senior season.

IMHO, Anthony and Jean-Luc Baker are such charismatic male ice dancers/performers. I admit to some prejudice with Anthony because he resembles his mother, the goddess Marina Klimova whom I love. Jean-Luc is so versatile. US ice dancing is in good hands (or should it be feet?) with these two.

 

[mollymgr]

IMHO, Anthony and Jean-Luc Baker are such charismatic male ice dancers/performers. I admit to some prejudice with Anthony because he resembles his mother, the goddess Marina Klimova whom I love. Jean-Luc is so versatile. US ice dancing is in good hands (or should it be feet?) with these two.

Anthony and Jean-Luc should just skate together.

 

[clairecloutier]

IMHO, Anthony and Jean-Luc Baker are such charismatic male ice dancers/performers. I admit to some prejudice with Anthony because he resembles his mother, the goddess Marina Klimova whom I love. Jean-Luc is so versatile. US ice dancing is in good hands (or should it be feet?) with these two.

I’d also mention Michael Parsons. He’s great, too. Such skating skills, line, and posture.

 

[Tak]

I agree and it may be because they are a russian team. S/K are better skaters as a team than S/B and they are more polished/detailed than S/B. GPF will be interesting.

Also, S/B are getting PCS scores and GOE that are way beyond their ability and what they are performing with a weaker skilled partner(Alexandra S). Averaging 9.5 points for SS, Composition and 9.68 for INt. That's too high.

Im really glad to hear somebody else say that, because every time I watch them that's exactly what Im thinking. There used to be an emphasis in ice dancing on both partners being equal in skill but this partnership is very unbalanced IMO. Maybe they have improved over the season, but I saw their RD in one of the early B competitions and I couldn't believe how open and weak it was. The entire first part was him dragging her across the ice and her trying to keep up with him.

The problem for me is that I like this team. They are interesting to watch and are great performers. Their tango is a great exhibition program, but unless they have really fixed it up, it's not a competition program [or it shouldn't be].

Sin/Kat for all the dissing they get around here are CLEARLY better ice dancers. She has improved tremendously and now more than holds her own with him. And their dances are more difficult, far less open, skated closer together, with changing hand holds and intricate transitions. Their RD is my favourite tango so far, and the one that comes closest to catching the feel and flavour of a ballroom tango.

I think S/K could easily skate S/B programs, but I don't think Stepanova could skate S/K's if her life depended on it. Im glad the judges at NHK recognised how weak Z/G's skating was and marked them accordingly. Im only hoping the judges at GPF will do the same with S/B. It might be the wake-up call Stepanova needs to get her act together.

 

[wickedwitch]

It might be the wake-up call Stepanova needs to get her act together.

Because she has been slacking off and not working hard or something? I think there's a good argument that Stepanova isn't as good as skater as she should be to challenge for world medals, but she's made immense progress already.

 

[mjb52]

S/B have made it, they're in the Uber Matrix now

 

[firstflight]

S/B have made it, they're in the Uber Matrix now

Exactly. My first thought reading Tak’s post is: “S/K have been receiving superb marks for multiple seasons in a row prior to this season.”

The door was open for them to go ahead and already be established as Russia’s number 1 this season ahead of S/B. Stepanova doesn’t need to be the focus of comparison. The bigger question is why S/K didn’t build on the momentum of those great scores they were receiving in Grand Prix events.

 

[Dobre]

Bukin is the one who got the level two on the steps in the FD. Not Stepanova.

S/B have made it, they're in the Uber Matrix now

They've been in it for a while now.

Here's what I found in my research:

Thanks for all that research, VIETgrl. Russia has a good shot at earning three teams into the GPF itself this season. Your notes were quite a blast from the past. I had totally forgotten about Semenovich & Federov as a team. Nevermind Kulikova & Markov. But of course Denkova & Staviski found a way to lose to them.

 

[Tak]

The bigger question is why S/K didn’t

Injury mainly. Their Rachmaninov program got stronger every time I saw it, and they were skating it lights out at Russian Nationals when he got injured. But for that I think they would have won Nationals and gone to Worlds and Olympics as Russian No. 1 and who knows where they would have placed. Now they have to re-establish themselves, and Im hoping they can do it, because they deserve it. Ignore this - my faulty memory.

 

[supergirl573]

She is also very elegant

No she isn't. She's super beautiful but her skating is reminiscent of watching Bambi trying to stand for the first time.

 

[Dobre]

Injury mainly. Their Rachmaninov program got stronger every time I saw it, and they were skating it lights out at Russian Nationals when he got injured. But for that I think they would have won Nationals and gone to Worlds and Olympics as Russian No. 1 and who knows where they would have placed. Now they have to re-establish themselves, and Im hoping they can do it, because they deserve it.

They were not going to win Nationals. Nor were they going to defeat Stepanova & Bukin. S&K were 8 points behind S&B and 3 down from Zagorski & Guerreiro after the SD. Plus Nikita had already botched the lift in the FD before he stopped skating.

Bobrova & Soloviev are the ones that skated lights out.

I do think injury has been part of the reason that S&K have had such a difficult time. His shoulder has very likely played a role in a number of botched lifts over the years. Though it does not explain the twizzles from the 2014 Worlds or Nationals in 2016 or Europeans in 2017 or an array of dropped levels for patterns and footwork over the years.

I would not underestimate Sinitsina & Katsalapov, either in their ability to win an event or their ability to muck up.

 

[cocotaffy]

It's not an uber matrix problem otherwise people wouldn't be appreciating the revival of S/K who posted equally threatening scores as S/B (OK yesterday's FD scores were big but the RD meh). It is very much an issue of SS as @Ka3sha mentioned in her post. There are a lot of things to appreciate in S/B's skating: performance value, energy, enthusiasm, original and risky elements, he has good SS, they're a stable couple with good work ethics .... but I do think they are being propped up a bit compared to their real skating level. She has improved but comparatively, Sinitsina has improved much more imo. I was really pleasantly surprised by her performance in the RD which has some of the most difficult steps off all the RD this season. She lost that "Bambi trying to walk for the first time" impression which I still get from time to time with Stepanova. Yesterday's FD performance was weaker than their last outings and yet they got that huge score, I guess being in Russia helps but still.
On another note, I just realized if I'm not mistaken that this year's likely GPF finalists will be all different couples from last year's except for Hubbell/Donohue. Talk about change !!! Also Fabbri/Guignard are officially in which is great

 

[Ka3sha]

I would not underestimate Sinitsina & Katsalapov, either in their ability to win an event or their ability to muck up.

This is so true.

But at the same I think that all three top Russian teams are prone to mistakes when they skate under pressure.
Stepanova/Bukin are considered a consistent team, but it’s not so true. They usually have some small mistakes or stumbles here and there at major competitions. They were a perfect Rus#2 team, who had potential to score big , but at the same time to be in the shade of Bobrova/Soloviev.
So right now am intrigued to see , how they will skate under pressure knowing that they are Rus#1

 

[Dobre]

It's not an uber matrix problem otherwise people wouldn't be appreciating the revival of S/K who posted equally threatening scores as S/B

Of course it is. People always cheer for a homefield team to upset the favorite they worry their favorite is most threatened by. Last year, people were rooting for Stepanova & Bukin to defeat Bobrova & Soloviev. And for Hubbell & Donohue to defeat the Shibs. And for Guignard & Fabbri to defeat Cappellini & Lanotte. Believe it or not, there are plenty of us that have rooted for Weaver & Poje to defeat Virtue & Moir. And there are now people rooting for Gilles & Poirier to defeat W&P. If there was anyone from France who could get close to Papadakis & Cizeron, there are people who would cheer for them too. There just isn't another French team in the vicinity.

 

[Dobre]

This is so true.

But at the same I think that all three top Russian teams are orne to mistakes when they skate under pressure.
Stepanova/Bukin are considered a consistent team, but it’s not so true. They usually have some small mistakes or stumbles here and there at major competitions. They were a parecer Rus#2 team, who had potential to score big , but at the same time to be in the shade of Bobrova/Soloviev.
So right now am intrigued to see , how they will skate under pressure knowing that they are Rus#1

Yes, this is true for almost all the top teams on the GP right now and it is going to be very interesting to watch & see how the teams respond to the challenge under pressure. Hubbell & Donohue, Stepanova & Bukin, Guignard & Fabbri--this season we learn how they all deal with being expected to win. Not exactly true in Canada right now, as Weaver & Poje have already led and Gilles & Poirier are still chasing until proven otherwise.

 

[Tak]

They were not going to win Nationals. Nor were they going to defeat Stepanova & Bukin. S&K were 8 points behind S&B and 3 down from Zagorski & Guerreiro after the SD. Plus Nikita had already botched the lift in the FD before he stopped skating.

OMG - you are right! Im not sure what I was remembering - I must have been confusing this with something else. I couldn't believe it so I went back and dug out the disc from last year to check the scores, and you were right. 8.51 points behind. I really mis-remembered that. Sorry about that - my bad.

 

[starrynight]

Yes, this is true for almost all the top teams on the GP right now and it is going to be very interesting to watch & see how the teams respond to the challenge under pressure. Hubbell & Donohue, Stepanova & Bukin, Guignard & Fabbri--this season we learn how they all deal with being expected to win. Not exactly true in Canada right now, as Weaver & Poje have already led and Gilles & Poirier are still chasing until proven otherwise.

Yes being expected to win and chasing are two very very different things. You can already see it in the way that, for example, Hubbell/Donohue's free dance is being analysed in minute detail. Everything goes under a much harsher microscope when you are the leader and not the under dog anymore.

 

[Bigbird]

S/B's weaknesses are S/K's strengths and vice versa. So on any given day, it could come down to the performance. The difficulty of both their programs together is about the same. I only give a slight edge to S/B in that they are much better performers, much more expressive. If Nikita would slow down and not force the action so much especially in the RD and allow it to breathe the effect would be better. They look impressive athletically in select fast moments, but they don't draw you in, Victoria looks petrified half of the time. I thought the male lead was to be a bit more considerate of their partner's strengths. IMHO, the bottom line is Nikita is the more impressive skater but Bukin is a much better partner. Stepanova I find to be the more impressive dancer performer with Victoria having better skating skills.

I am still waiting for that complete Russian package.

EDIT: IMHO, Z/G do great SD or RD but they struggle with the FD.

 

[Wyliefan]

The day that Nikita is considerate of anyone is the day I start believing in Santa Claus.