The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

Status
Not open for further replies.

thvudragon

Usova's Apprentice
Messages
4,812
I’m not really understanding all this outrage over low level patterns getting high GOEs. The difference between a level 4 and a basic level could be something really small, like 2 turns that aren’t quite clean enough per partner. Does that really impact the overall quality of the element when the partners are completing dozens of steps and turns?

Because the ISU switched to the keypoints being a wider sequence of steps and turns, it’s much easier to lose a level. One wrong step or turn, and they don’t get the keypoint. Let’s say a keypoint is 12 steps/turns. A team will lose that keypoint if they miss 1 or if they miss all 12. The loss of level is the same, but the actual execution is not.
 

morqet

rising like a phoenix
Messages
2,445
Dance is the only area where I don’t think the +/-5 GOE scale is working. But the solution is as simple as having a wider variation in base value between the levels (so one for next season!). I also think they need to go back to having the twizzles scored as one element. Part of the marking is how well it’s done in unison, so scoring the man and woman differently makes no sense. I also think it makes it more confusing for the casual viewer. There are so rarely big mistakes in dance that it is super obvious when a skaters screws up their twizzles, and now it’s penalised much less.
 

thvudragon

Usova's Apprentice
Messages
4,812
@morqet GOE is still judged as a whole, both partners. Only levels are called separately for twizzles and the one-foot step sequence. A visible twizzles error is still very costly given the greater GOE point values possible.
 

levineismine

I believed in Hubbell&Donohue before it was cool
Messages
3,597
Cross posting from the Japanese skaters thread:
Here's our new interview with Misato and Tim: Link
We talked about their beginnings, the coaching change, the new programs, ice dance in Japan, and some fun stuff.
There's a part two coming with their answers to fans questions.
Here is part two with Misato and Tim's answers to fans questions!
Link
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
31,962
@morqet GOE is still judged as a whole, both partners. Only levels are called separately for twizzles and the one-foot step sequence. A visible twizzles error is still very costly given the greater GOE point values possible.
Not as costly as a big fat zero could be in case one partner flubs the twizzles at the very beginning. ;)
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,325
I’m not really understanding all this outrage over low level patterns getting high GOEs. The difference between a level 4 and a basic level could be something really small, like 2 turns that aren’t quite clean enough per partner. Does that really impact the overall quality of the element when the partners are completing dozens of steps and turns?

Because the ISU switched to the keypoints being a wider sequence of steps and turns, it’s much easier to lose a level. One wrong step or turn, and they don’t get the keypoint. Let’s say a keypoint is 12 steps/turns. A team will lose that keypoint if they miss 1 or if they miss all 12. The loss of level is the same, but the actual execution is not.
I think it's because these levels on the set patterns are the main only *objective* cross comparisons we get between teams.

As an ice dance fan I'm always looking for something objective to grab onto. And hitting the key points on the patterns is something objective (I mean as objective as you can get in ice dance because tech panels do see different things for some teams).

If it's the case that the key points are such an insignificant measure of the technical completion of the pattern, then perhaps we also need a better way of judging the patterns. Maybe that is the issue.

This ice dance fan is just used to the years of 'Igor will get you your levels' and so the sight of basic level and level 1 on the score cards for the very top teams who are winning is quite a shock to my system.
 
Last edited:

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
31,962
I honestly always thought the key point way of judging compulsories and patterns was a weird way of judging those dances.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,325
I just think that this focus on placing teams based on 'overall quality' by use of the powerful GOEs is fine at the moment in a depleted Grand Prix field. There are only a few top teams with high reputation and they are fairing well and so people are happy. The other teams are new or lower ranked and there is a clear distinction in quality and for the most part they don't have large fan bases who are expecting certain placements.

But when it comes to the second half of the season when teams are fighting it out for three world medals, it's going to get controversial.

I don't think it reconciles well with the perception of ice dance as a sport (as opposed to a performing art) when lower ranked teams getting levels the higher ranked teams aren't can be easily dismissed as if they got those levels by accident.

Someone needs to go interview Igor Shpilband or the like about this. I'd love to hear the coaches' take on it - particularly the technically focused coaches. I remember seeing Fabian Bourzat fight for the rocker to be included as a key point at the technical committee meeting. I wonder if he thought that if he could teach his students to do it, then they'd get a big edge against the field on the levels? (which won't happen now)
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
31,962
Right now the StepBuk v. SinKats question is like asking whether one prefers Britney or Christina/Madonna or Cyndi Lauper/Michael or Prince/Whitney or Mariah/Donna Summer or Diana Ross/etc.
 

muffinplus

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,660
Right now the StepBuk v. SinKats question is like asking whether one prefers Britney or Christina/Madonna or Cyndi Lauper/Michael or Prince/Whitney or Mariah/Donna Summer or Diana Ross/etc.
True but I was asking who is "better" in terms of skills not who has the better program, style etc...
 

thvudragon

Usova's Apprentice
Messages
4,812
True but I was asking who is "better" in terms of skills not who has the better program, style etc...
If we are talking raw talent, SinKats, but purely because Nikita is the most talented ice dancer skating today (not including Cizeron of course.)
 

muffinplus

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,660
I think you've found a team to love. My best wishes in the endeavor;)
Haha,I wouldn't say I love them yet... :)... I do enjoy their programs a lot this year and appreciate the talent. Actually I enjoy Stepanova/Bukin as well, but moreso the short dance, it not being a tango notwithstanding.
 

MarieM

Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
Messages
9,531
So the moral of the story, Lilah and Lewis, is work on that rhythm dance.
So far, nearly all teams need to rework their tangos. And that includes Hubbel&Donohue.
Smart & Diaz have kick arsed RD. I wonder why it's such a miss for all the other Montreal based teams.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
31,962
Maybe because other than V/M, Gadbois doesn't tend to specialize in skating/dancing to the rhythm. :p
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,256
Smart & Diaz have kick arsed RD. I wonder why it's such a miss for all the other Montreal based teams.
Smart & Diaz had a 1 & 2 on the tango at both Skate Canada and Finlandia. I agree that the interpretation of the RD is really a strength for them this season. If they could start getting the levels, they should be able to make the most out of this RD.
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
Messages
28,859
Smart & Diaz had a 1 & 2 on the tango at both Skate Canada and Finlandia. I agree that the interpretation of the RD is really a strength for them this season. If they could start getting the levels, they should be able to make the most out of this RD.
And if she would just get all that crap out of her hair!
 

Bigbird

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,269
If we are talking raw talent, SinKats, but purely because Nikita is the most talented ice dancer skating today (not including Cizeron of course.)
He's talented yes, but nobody comes close to my Andrew Poje :fan:. Their RD this year, oh boy, Poirier in their new FD is coming into his own. It's one thing to be talented it's another thing to be a good ice dance partner. :)

EDIT: When will Kustarova and Alexeeva learn how to package a team, a senior team? When? Why do they try to make everything so unnecessarily difficult? Both their senior teams are struggling with injury. Yanovskaya and Mozgov gave up after a year. It's like a recurring decimal with these two.
 

taz'smum

as @Jesche says - мама knows best
Messages
2,319
H

EDIT: When will Kustarova and Alexeeva learn how to package a team, a senior team? When? Why do they try to make everything so unnecessarily difficult? Both their senior teams are struggling with injury. Yanovskaya and Mozgov gave up after a year. It's like a recurring decimal with these two.
Tiffany's knee problems date from when she was with Zhulin, way before she moved to K & A.
They are not responsible.
 

Aceon6

Isolating from mean people
Messages
20,415
Do Fear & GIBSON have social media? I looked on Twitter, but all I see are tweets about them, not their account info. If they’re on FB, Twit, or IG, kindly post the handles as I’d like to congratulate them on that famazeballs FD.
 

Spun Silver

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,594
Do Fear & GIBSON have social media? I looked on Twitter, but all I see are tweets about them, not their account info. If they’re on FB, Twit, or IG, kindly post the handles as I’d like to congratulate them on that famazeballs FD.
They are on FB with their names, Liliah Fear & Lewis Gibson. Just started following them last night!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 3)

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information