The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

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I’m starting to think that what H/D’s fd actually really needs to help it sing is a costume change for Madi. There is something about that gray beige color with her blonde hair and complexion that makes her disappear against the white sheet of ice. I think putting her in a darker color would make her stand out more, helping to better sell the program. I’m also not a big fan of the cut of the dress with those cap sleeves on her.

Costuming is cosmetic, but it can have such a huge impact on how the program is perceived.

As for the rest, this is not my personal favorite fd of theirs. However, it’s early days for this season and H/D are typically a slow burn team this time of year. They have had a way the past few seasons of starting closer to the pack and then pulling ahead of the others as the season goes on. I’m a from-the-very-beginning fan of theirs, and this is how they tend to develop over the season. In 16-17, they were third in the sd in both of their gp events and everyone wanted them to ditch the program. Then, they ended up third in the sd at worlds, finishing behind only V/M and P/C, whom they were only 0.36 points behind.
 
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Reminds me of the 2015-2016 season. It wasn't just the dress change that made H/D's Worlds 2016 performance different from the rest of the season, but I admit that styling difference did have an impact on H/D's "Tron" FD.
 
There can't be any doomsday scenario that early in the season anyway. H/D are indeed a slowburn type of team. It happens with the hip hop SD and Tron so they definitely can get there. It won't be my cup of tea because it is just a bit too saccharine for me like their acclaimed 2017 FD and 2016 SD. My favorite two FDs of them are Tron and last year's sexy blues. I also really enjoyed their hip hop, it was full of character and infectious and that is what they should capitalize on, non of that lovey dovey romantic stuff.
We've talked a lot about how many teams are hoovering around the same scores in the FD so I bet the RD will be the key. Right now, H/D are winning the battle on that front and you know they will improve even more by Worlds because they have great SS and crisp technic. I also think G/F could capitalize on their RD because their technic is more solid than S/B imo at the moment and they have a better program. S/B, I have to acknowledge, I have never liked, like ever, and no it is not because she said they can beat P/C. Tbh every team should shoot for 1st place otherwise what's the point. There is just something too eager and not sincere in their presentation. Basically they look like try-hard and their FD this year is the perfect illustration. They took a page from H/D's book and thought hey why not ? However, if I'm honest, they did improve a lot, especially her. They are more assured and less juniorish looking this year, finally. However, her free leg is still bothering me and sometimes she looks like she's running after him trying to keep up. But it is a great start of this quad for them and they will certainly be a threat for the podium.
 
H&D's FD is a huge letdown. Last season they did something amazingly hot, and they come up with that shit?
Really?

And their RD is more of a let down. They should ROCK the tango. Instead, they're smiling through it. Gosh I want them to do a complete 180 because if they don't their season's gonna be a huge miss.
 
MarieM said:
H&D's FD is a huge letdown. Last season they did something amazingly hot, and they come up with that shit?
Really?

And their RD is more of a let down. They should ROCK the tango. Instead, they're smiling through it. Gosh I want them to do a complete 180 because if they don't their season's gonna be a huge miss.
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Well I disagree with you. They(Madison/Zach) wanted to try to something different for them in the FD. The program continues to grow and improve. I fully expect by GP finals we'll see a program that has grown even more.

Also, they are not "smiling" all the way through their RD. Madison is giving "come hither looks through out the dance but Zach is intense throughout. Watch Skate America And Skate Canada.

I have faith that they'll improve the levels in the RD and FD and they'll be fine this season. They are receiving low levels and still scoring 80 points.

You're still stuck in September watching the US International Classic. But hey, your opinion is your opinion.
 
aka_gerbil said:
I’m starting to think that what H/D’s fd actually really needs to help it sing is a costume change for Madi. There is something about that gray beige color with her blonde hair and complexion that makes her disappear against the white sheet of ice. I think putting her in a darker color would make her stand out more, helping to better sell the program. I’m also not a big fan of the cut of the dress with those cap sleeves on her.

As for the rest, this is not my personal favorite fd of theirs. However, it’s early days for this season and H/D are typically a slow burn team this time of year. They have had a way the past few seasons of starting closer to the pack and then pulling ahead of the others as the season goes on.
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This is very true about H/D, they’re usually at their best at the end of the season, not the beginning, so hopefully they build from here.

Madi’s FD dress is really beautiful, IMO. I love the way it takes some of the usual R&J/medieval motifs and reworks them into a creation that’s more mature and subtle than the usual Juliet dresses. It also has a slightly martial look, to my eye, kind of reflecting Juliet as a member of a feudal clan, which is what she is, not just a romantic young girl. The cap sleeves to me somewhat suggest the overmantle garments that you see in paintings of medieval soldiers. I also love the subtle light dove gray color. It matches their restrained approach to the program and the poignant mood.

All that said, I like most of Madi’s costumes. So I probably wouldn’t mind a new costume either. 😊
 
I think H/D's RD is okay and their FD is completely forgettable, but they've risen above their programs in the past. Their 3rd place finish in the SD at 2017 worlds was all about the level 4 on the steps. Their PCS were actually below several other teams (besides P/C and V/M) -- and deservingly so because I still think that program was a mess.

And I like S/B's FD a lot, but their RD is a complete miss.
 
wickedwitch said:
I think H/D's RD is okay and their FD is completely forgettable, but they've risen above their programs in the past. Their 3rd place finish in the SD at 2017 worlds was all about the level 4 on the steps. Their PCS were actually below several other teams (besides P/C and V/M) -- and deservingly so because I still think that program was a mess.
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This. H&D have a month to take their vehicles off cruise control, work, and prepare for the GPF. If they nail the elements the way they are capable of doing, they will likely be right up there. I disagree that this season is their normal process. They don't usually wait until July to get started. I also disagree that this program is a stretch. If you took out the R&J voiceover at the beginning, it would just look like Can't Help Falling in Love With You all over again. I agree that the choreographic step sequence is the best part.

Hubbell & Donohue's program last season was very successful for them. I don't think there's any objective way of disputing that. It tapped into the unique relationship they have on the ice.

I don't see any reason to compare Stepanova & Bukin's blues to that one. I think S&B likely chose the blues because it has always been a successful genre for them. The feel and depiction of this blues program is very different and closer to their successful hip hop/blues RD in 2016-17.

It's really hard to know what the end of the season is going to look like at this point. We haven't seen Papadakis & Cizeron. We don't know how Weaver & Poje's FD is developing or how their elements/programs will be received in a larger context against other teams. We haven't seen Chock & Bates and don't know how strong they will come out looking. We don't know if both Gilles & Poirier and Sinitsina & Katsalapov are going to make the Final. A lot of questions--some we aren't likely to get answered until Worlds.
 
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caseyedwards said:
Judges are dumping Russian dance even more this season! They are probably going to have their worst season ever and it’s a post Olympic season! Where things are supposed to change. By judges were brutal and crushing toward s/b with only 2 +5 in goe out of possible 40 and level 1’s in twizzles and cruelly calling supposed skaters with potential shipeleva and Smirnov basic skaters.
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So the judges are dumping Russian dance even more this season are they?
 
If Z/G and S/K both win silver in their next events (which is well within reach), there are going to be 3 Russian teams at the GPF. Russian ice dance is really on track to fail upwards this season.

That also would be 1 North American team and 5 European teams. I'm guessing you have to reach back more than a decade for the last time that happened.

And whether S/K, Z/G or G/P make it, the teams at the GPF are going to represent 5 different coaching teams and 6 different choreographers. Quite a change from recent years, and one that should make more fans happy.
 
clairecloutier said:
This is very true about H/D, they’re usually at their best at the end of the season, not the beginning, so hopefully they build from here.

Madi’s FD dress is really beautiful, IMO. I love the way it takes some of the usual R&J/medieval motifs and reworks them into a creation that’s more mature and subtle than the usual Juliet dresses. It also has a slightly martial look, to my eye, kind of reflecting Juliet as a member of a feudal clan, which is what she is, not just a romantic young girl. The cap sleeves to me somewhat suggest the overmantle garments that you see in paintings of medieval soldiers. I also love the subtle light dove gray color. It matches their restrained approach to the program and the poignant mood.
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Excellent interpretation and summary. Please keep supporting beautiful subtle costuming. Someone last week on here tried to trash her FD dress. Not to give them space, but I think they didn't like the frontal design. I went to Maddie's defense, then the same person tried to squash me, and I would have none of it. I think the color is fine in that it isn't glaringly distracting from the gorgeous strong choreography, it's a beautiful beige color, but I would not be opposed to her trying say a deep rose, and then deciding whether to go for something like the latter or stay with the stunning tan.

Read somewhere here this week that Maddie, after her mom helping her with her outfits for years, is trying to begin setting herself (or maybe with her mom) up in a similar business, which is a very logical outgrowth of her skating.
 
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I like Madison Hubbell's dress. It has turn of the century, pre-Raphaelite, Art and Crafts modern take on the medieval vibes. I think it could even be pushed a little more in that direction. That lattice is very Charles Rennie Mackintosh/other textiles of that period; and that washed out grey colour is very much of the colour palette of that time. I think it's a very well-thought out dress.

https://paddle8.com/work/charles-rennie-mackintosh/66393-willow-chair
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O67908/furnishing-fabric-irving-constance/
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O...le-fabric-design-butterfield-lindsay-phillip/
 
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clairecloutier said:
This is very true about H/D, they’re usually at their best at the end of the season, not the beginning, so hopefully they build from here.

Madi’s FD dress is really beautiful, IMO. I love the way it takes some of the usual R&J/medieval motifs and reworks them into a creation that’s more mature and subtle than the usual Juliet dresses. It also has a slightly martial look, to my eye, kind of reflecting Juliet as a member of a feudal clan, which is what she is, not just a romantic young girl. The cap sleeves to me somewhat suggest the overmantle garments that you see in paintings of medieval soldiers. I also love the subtle light dove gray color. It matches their restrained approach to the program and the poignant mood.
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Icetigger said:
I like Madison Hubbell's dress. It has turn of the century, pre-Raphaelite, Art and Crafts modern take on the medieval vibes. I think it could even be pushed a little more in that direction. That lattice is very Charles Rennie Mackintosh/other textiles of that period; and that washed out grey colour is very much of the colour palette of that time. I think it's a very well-thought out dress.

https://paddle8.com/work/charles-rennie-mackintosh/66393-willow-chair
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O67908/furnishing-fabric-irving-constance/
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O...le-fabric-design-butterfield-lindsay-phillip/
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You guys really know costuming. As I said, please continue to speak up, for instance, when someone says, "I don't like that orange dress because it reminds me of a pumpkin." You get it, help others here, please!!! And, Madison and her mother have excellent taste and style.
 
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Ok, today I watched G&P FD at SC, for the first time.
I don't know if it's because I'm getting old, or because my hormones are going crazy these days, but I cried. :wuzrobbed

I don't remember when was the last time that happened, watching an ID program.
It's kinda scary now that I think of. :slinkaway:lol:

Anyway, this is to say that the program is a jewel. :swoon:
Honestly, they should receive +9 for IN, PE and CH from all the judges.
 
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I've said it before, but beside the top teams, there are quite "lower" ranked teams whose FDs really stand out to me this season.

Zagorski/Guerrero, Fear/Gibson, Lauriault/Le Gac, Turkkila/Versluis, Mcnamara/Carpenter, Muller/Diek, etc... Even Hurtado and Khaliavin's FD, which I hated the first time I saw it, was way more compelling in Helsinki.

The only thing I'm not a fan of is the way the "Choreographic character step sequence" forces the teams to skate down to short axis of the rink, either towards or away from the judges. Too forced.
 
casken said:
The only thing I'm not a fan of is the way the "Choreographic character step sequence" forces the teams to skate down to short axis of the rink, either towards or away from the judges. Too forced.
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The distinctiveness of that is actually what I like about it. It’s not a type of movement you typically see otherwise.
 
Colonel Green said:
The distinctiveness of that is actually what I like about it. It’s not a type of movement you typically see otherwise.
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I don't know, to me it seems like a lot of posing and side by side skating, which there already is enough of, IMO. I might like it better if it wasn't forced to go along the short axis.

Some teams do a good job with it, I'll admit. The way Fear/Gibson use it to open their program is good. W&P have managed to incorporate it so well into their program, that I can't actually tell when it's happening. (The part right before knee slides??)
 
I already know that I hate it when teams start off their FD with the one-foot sequences. They never go with the rest of the program and clearly look like required elements hoping for a level 4.
 
So . . . NHK. The question of the hour (aside from all things P&C) is, "Who is going to nail down that silver medal?" As there are big-time repercussions here for that final qualifying spot at the GPF. (Depending on what happens in France, particularly with Sinitsina & Katsalapov and Gilles & Poirier). No one at NHK can guarantee themselves a spot, but boy their odds are very good of either getting in or being 1st alternates. Hurtado & Khaliavin could make a bid if they can grab the silver at Rostelecom with a very big score. (Rostelecom is very often good for a big score, but H&K's first one is quite a ways below Zagorski & Guerreiro's from SA). The odds are in favor of whoever pulls a silver out of NHK.

Of course, betting on Sinitsina & Katsalapov to win a silver medal under pressure in France is maybe not something I would do on the best of days. But this is not something the teams at NHK can control. They can control how they skate in Japan.

Thoughts?
 
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I would think Z/G have it in the bag. There will be a lot of promising young teams there, but not many who can beat them, I imagine. H/B are just coming off an injury, they're in a new coaching situation, and on top of all that, this will be their first time competing under the new rules and with the harsher scoring we've been seeing. I don't see them making a splash just yet -- maybe later in the season, but not yet.
 
Wyliefan said:
I would think Z/G have it in the bag. There will be a lot of promising young teams there, but not many who can beat them, I imagine. H/B are just coming off an injury, they're in a new coaching situation, and on top of all that, this will be their first time competing under the new rules and with the harsher scoring we've been seeing. I don't see them making a splash just yet -- maybe later in the season, but not yet.
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They beat M/C by around a point, and the Parsons had the higher score on the Challenger series and are around the same level as their training mates. Of course, Z/G will have had more time to prepare since SA, but I wouldn't go with "in the bag".
 
Lacey said:
I think the color is fine in that it isn't glaringly distracting from the gorgeous strong choreography, it's a beautiful beige color, but I would not be opposed to her trying say a deep rose, and then deciding whether to go for something like the latter or stay with the stunning tan.
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It's not beige or tan, though, but light grey 🙂.
 
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