The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[Bigbird]

Let's talk about the soft knees and ankles bit. I think that goes a long in way in sustaining an ice dance team's career. I think it was that quality that afforded the Shibs those four seasons of stagnation but never losing a Worlds berth or being completely out of the conversation. How do ice dance coaches develop that and what does it take for both partners to achieve that? Obvs with the Shibs they're brother and sister and thus shared coaches since childhood, but like some of the best U.S. ice dancers like Emily Samuelson, Madison Hubbell, Evan Bates, etc. have that great quality that you think every ice dancer would have it but it seems not everyone develops it. Is that something that is taught earlier on or is it also something that falls under natural talent?

I'm beginning to feel there are limits to what a coach can do. Case in point, Katya Bobrova and Dima Soloviev. I admired certain programs of theirs like Adagio, Chess, Crazy, Anna Karenina, but their last two season's they sort of plateaued. But then again great coaches are able to show a couple in their best light while simultaneously helping them develop, I honestly believe Lauzon is the best at it. Zhulin I think get's bored or has these strange dreams.

 

[VGThuy]

"Strange dreams" is a great way of describing Zhulin's choreography and concepts.

 

[Holy Headband]

Posted in the wrong thread previously.

What I want to know is, how do you develop the talent P/C has? Neither S/K or S/B have it no Russian pair coming up looks to be taking that trajectory. I recall practically all their dancers bar none start out as single skaters. Haven't all the greatest greatest dance pairs worked on their connection from infancy? What needs to happen for Russia to create the K/P's, U/Z's and G/P's of tomorrow? Sorry I hijacked this thread. I am glad S/K pulled themselves together today but I don't see that it quality in them. G/F are on the cusp of it, S/B have it even though I hate her skating skills terribly.

Insert my obligatory 'Skoptsova and Aleshin have been together since childhood' comment here.

Also I'm very happy for Chock and Bates and hope they'll leave the elderly Romeo and Juliet in the dust by Worlds.

 

[Amantide]

Posted in the wrong thread previously.

What I want to know is, how do you develop the talent P/C has? Neither S/K or S/B have it no Russian pair coming up looks to be taking that trajectory. I recall practically all their dancers bar none start out as single skaters. Haven't all the greatest greatest dance pairs worked on their connection from infancy? What needs to happen for Russia to create the K/P's, U/Z's and G/P's of tomorrow? Sorry I hijacked this thread. I am glad S/K pulled themselves together today but I don't see that it quality in them. G/F are on the cusp of it, S/B have it even though I hate her skating skills terribly.

Being together for a long time helps a lot. But is not enough, as you can see with S&B.
However, a lot of hard work, consistency and the "right" program can make a big difference.

 

[Amantide]

I'm beginning to feel there are limits to what a coach can do. Case in point, Katya Bobrova and Dima Soloviev. I admired certain programs of theirs like Adagio, Chess, Crazy, Anna Karenina, but their last two season's they sort of plateaued. But then again great coaches are able to show a couple in their best light while simultaneously helping them develop, I honestly believe Lauzon is the best at it. Zhulin I think get's bored or has these strange dreams.

There was no excuse for her posture though. That is smth that can be taught.

 

[Bigbird]

There was no excuse for her posture though. That is smth that can be taught.

If Zhulin couldn't teach her that, there was just no hope. None.

 

[Amantide]

If Zhulin couldn't teach her that, there was just no hope. None.

Or maybe he never cared that much at that point. These things are usually taught while you are still young, with the basics. The more you grow the more difficult it becomes and it needs double or triple the work.

 

[Bigbird]

Insert my obligatory 'Skoptsova and Aleshin have been together since childhood' comment here.

Also I'm very happy for Chock and Bates and hope they'll leave the elderly Romeo and Juliet in the dust by Worlds.

No they are fairly recent. She had a famous partner who I cannot remember for some reason. But the poor things have been saddled with the one Russian coaching pair that are practically the worst. Practically all their pairs struggle with finesse and styling. I think that cute dark haired coaching partner has skills though. She seems to have done great work with Davis and partner in Juniors.

 

[Bigbird]

Or maybe he never cared that much at that point. These things are usually taught while you are still young, with the basics. The more you grow the more difficult it becomes and it needs double or triple the work.

I just remembered she was taught by K/A like forever, before going to Zhulin.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I continue to dislike H/D's FD

I agree. Its very difficult to get me to like any.... and I mean any interpretation of R&J. Ive seen so so so so many there is no story left you can tell me that I will find interesting.

But thats me.

Now, if you want to go to the music vault and choose any other 1,000,000,000,000 pieces of music that are out there you will have my attention. lol

 

[Bigbird]

I agree. Its very difficult to get me to like any.... and I mean any interpretation of R&J. Ive seen so so so so many there is no story left you can tell me that I will find interesting.

But thats me.

Now, if you want to go to the music vault and choose any other 1,000,000,000,000 pieces of music that are out there you will have my attention. lol

I think I wish they'd just go back to the original RD, the revamped R&J I really get. Not every tango has to be so OTT aggressive. Ugh!!

 

[Amantide]

I just remembered she was taught by K/A like forever, before going to Zhulin.

That's why I'm saying that it becomes very difficult to change bad habits, so to speak, when you become older. And a coach like Zhulin wouldn't waste much time to fix that.
Though I always wondered because from what I've heard and seen, K&A students usually have good basics. She may have been the exception to the rule though. It happens.

 

[Amantide]

I agree. Its very difficult to get me to like any.... and I mean any interpretation of R&J. Ive seen so so so so many there is no story left you can tell me that I will find interesting.

But thats me.

Now, if you want to go to the music vault and choose any other 1,000,000,000,000 pieces of music that are out there you will have my attention. lol

The last R&L I liked it was A&P program in 1998.

 

[Holy Headband]

No they are fairly recent. She had a famous partner who I cannot remember for some reason. But the poor things have been saddled with the one Russian coaching pair that are practically the worst. Practically all their pairs struggle with finesse and styling. I think that cute dark haired coaching partner has skills though. She seems to have done great work with Davis and partner in Juniors.

No, they teamed up in 2013, when Skoptsova was 12/13 and Aleshin 16. You may be thinking of another couple.

 

[deegee]

I think I wish they'd just go back to the original RD, the revamped R&J I really get. Not every tango has to be so OTT aggressive. Ugh!!

it hardly looks like a tango anymore, from the dress to the hip wiggles and the slss with the windmill-y arms... i don't understand these changes.

 

[Bigbird]

it hardly looks like a tango anymore, from the dress to the hip wiggles and the slss with the windmill-y arms... i don't understand these changes.

You and me both. It's like they're just winging it performance to performance.

 

[Bigbird]

No, they teamed up in 2013, when Skoptsova was 12/13 and Aleshin 16. You may be thinking of another couple.

Hmm...

 

[VGThuy]

BTW, congrats to Guignard/Fabbri for achieving all level 4s for their FD (with P/C)! Shame their higher base values (1 point over SinKats and like .73 over StepBuk) only meant that SinKats ONLY beat them in TES by two points and StepBuk ONLY beat them in TES by 3 points as opposed to more. SinKats were messy and rough in places, how could they get higher GOE by 3 points? I don't think StepBuk are 4 whole points higher than G/F in GOE either.

 

[Bigbird]

BTW, congrats to Guignard/Fabbri for achieving all level 4s for their FD (with P/C)! Shame their higher base values (1 point over SinKats and like .73 over StepBuk) only meant that SinKats ONLY beat them in TES by two points and StepBuk ONLY beat them in TES by 3 points as opposed to more. SinKats were messy and rough in places, how could they get higher GOE by 3 points? I don't think StepBuk are 4 whole points higher than G/F in GOE either.

I am just happy they pulled through for the bronze. As I said I really loved their FD and I don't get the scoring either. S/B were their usual selves, they've skated that with more passion they seemed to try to slow things down but I don't find S sensual or sexy in the least. S/K just don't grab me with this FD, I find it somewhat empty and monotonous. I pray C/B beats this at worlds.

 

[sharsk8s]

I didn't mean for my comment about p/c to make it seem that they are amazing and everyone else is subpar. Them along with many others have a really nice flow which comes from their technique that they are taught at a young age. I was watching Euros and US nats today and you can easily tell which teams have that flow and knee bend and which teams look like they are muscling their way through the program. Once you have good base technique it is a matter of finding a style that suits you. I think p/c are an amazing example of a team who have started together young, have good technique and knee bend, and continually improve. Today I watched all their free dances from worlds and then euros and you can see how much both of them (especially gabi) have improved and matured. Its hard to forget that they are the youngest team in the top 5.

 

[MarieM]

Well as I've been saying from the start of the season, come worlds, H&D will regret that FD choice of theirs.
It's a lot better than before, but they are not Virtue&Moir. It's not working for them. Their FD last season was 200% them. Their RD same thing is not working for them. They are not soft skater. They have so much power and those programs do not use that power at all. It gets me angry and crazy that the coach let them go there.

C&B IMO have already done more with whatever Montreal does than any other team who switched. I can finally begin to see who they are as a team. And not who Madison only is. I am not sold on the RD because it needs much work.
I sure hope they do 4CC.

Of course my favorite moment & guilty pleasure is the Sweet Dreams FD. They can't skate, but I don't care.

 

[cocotaffy]

Oh my, do I love C/B's FD, now take notice S/B, that is how you do sizzling hot and sultry even though I have never found Madison to be subtle up to that point but boy did they improve since their move. That first part does give me fever, and the second is sheer fun, like a couple shredding it on the dance floor. Plus Evan is finally coming alive, who knew a haircut could change a man so, we can finally see his facial expressions, he is the anti-Samson

 

[SmallFairy]

Cross posting myself from another thread:

Papadakis/Cizeron are the first couple to win five Euro titles in a row, right?

Courtney Jones (GBR) has five in a row, but with two different partners.

Pakhomova/Gorshkov have six, but not consecutive.

Bestmianova/Bukin have five, but not consecutive.

Klimova/Ponomarenko have four consecutive (they won their last after the Soviet Union broke up).

Torvill/Dean have four, but not consecutive.

I doubt this fifth will be P/Cs last

 

[Cayuse]

[QUOTE="... Plus Evan is finally coming alive, who knew a haircut could change a man so, we can finally see his facial expressions, he is the anti-Samson [/QUOTE]

Evan had that "spark" when he skated with Samuelson. Igor buried it and choreographed everything to let Madison be the "star". Nice to see Gadbois team giving Evan a few touches of his own, but they missed a great opportunity by not letting Evan really "rock" the Elvis role. It will be great to see all these top teams compete in neutral territory at Worlds!

 

[Miloune]

I never thought I would say this one day but.... I REALLY LIKE this FD from Chock and Bates! You can feel them embracing this theme! Well done!! It will be interesting worlds! The battle for the podium will be fierce, and H/D (although I love them) better watch out!
OMG I can't believe I'm actually praising C/B, what's happening to me guys!!!!???

 

[sharsk8s]

Cross posting myself from another thread:

Papadakis/Cizeron are the first couple to win five Euro titles in a row, right?

Courtney Jones (GBR) has five in a row, but with two different partners.

Pakhomova/Gorshkov have six, but not consecutive.

Bestmianova/Bukin have five, but not consecutive.

Klimova/Ponomarenko have four consecutive (they won their last after the Soviet Union broke up).

Torvill/Dean have four, but not consecutive.

I doubt this fifth will be P/Cs last

Yes they are the first to win 5 in a row and bar any major mishap they should have many more european titles coming their way

 

[Dobre]

I am so hopelessly behind on this thread and haven't had a chance to read it yet; but I just made it through the last of the dance events--in this case the FD from Europeans--and I just need to say:

For Stepanova & Bukin. Stepping up and getting the job done after such a set of disappointments at the GPF and Russian Nationals. Way to compete.

And for Guignard & Fabbri in winning their first Europeans medal!

Also for Hurtado & Khaliavin in earning their first trip to the World Championships together. (I assume).

Lots of great dance performances this week & weekend.

 

[casken]

Looking at the GOE and PCS handed out at the GPF and Euros, I'm worried G&F could be one of the teams with the highest TES base value at worlds, but still finish somewhere in the 7-9 range if the more favored USA/CAN/RUS couples simply avoid major mistakes with lower levels.

 

[Bigbird]

Looking at the GOE and PCS handed out at the GPF and Euros, I'm worried G&F could be one of the teams with the highest TES base value at worlds, but still finish somewhere in the 7-9 range if the more favored USA/CAN/RUS couples simply avoid major mistakes with lower levels.

Not if Barbara-Fusar Poli has something to say about it. This team has earned my respect and she has taught them how to dance. While this SinKats fiasco is fresh, so long as these guys bring their A game they can compete with anybody. Remember when S/K were running red hot G/F still beat them in the RD competition at the GPF. On another note, please don't lump my hot eye candies in W/P and FB/S into the just some other Canadian team category.

 

[shuilee]

Lesson learned from this week: It's all about skating skills and speed for the judges under this +5/-5 system. The team with superior SS won PCS and GoEs in USA, CAN and RUS Nationals. I think if everyone skates clean at Worlds, the advantage goes to HubDon, WeaPo and SinKats for medals. It's almost like the 90s where speed/skating skills matter more than an interesting program or "levels".