The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

[Bigbird]

Lesson learned from this week: It's all about skating skills and speed for the judges under this +5/-5 system. The team with superior SS won PCS and GoEs in USA, CAN and RUS Nationals. I think if everyone skates clean at Worlds, the advantage goes to HubDon, WeaPo and SinKats for medals. It's almost like the 90s where speed/skating skills matter more than an interesting program or "levels".

So wait haven't you forgotten P/C and C/B?

 

[shuilee]

So wait haven't you forgotten P/C and C/B?

I was focusing on the USA/CAN/RUS discussion with silver and bronze. Of course everyone agrees P&C will win. C&B is interesting because they did skate slower than H&D at Nationals, and that was main reason they lost. But if they have 2 more months to recover from injury, they might get their speed back up there and could threaten for a medal. If it were up to me, I'd love to see H&D for silver and C&B for bronze.

 

[sharsk8s]

I was focusing on the USA/CAN/RUS discussion with silver and bronze. Of course everyone agrees P&C will win. C&B is interesting because they did skate slower than H&D at Nationals, and that was main reason they lost. But if they have 2 more months to recover from injury, they might get their speed back up there and could threaten for a medal. If it were up to me, I'd love to see H&D for silver and C&B for bronze.

I am from the US and a big fan of US skating but for some reason I don't think any US teams will medal at worlds with how strong can/rus is and the italians

 

[VGThuy]

I think it's kind of crazy how some are discounting the American ice dance teams considering how strong they've been in the past few seasons qualifying 3 in the GPF for four years and two this year and even having two teams win GP titles this year with five teams medaling in the GP series. H/D are undefeated this season and beat both Russian teams and the Canadians this year.

 

[sharsk8s]

I think it's kind of crazy how some are discounting the American ice dance teams considering how strong they've been in the past few seasons qualifying 3 in the GPF for four years and two this year and even having two teams win GP titles this year with five teams medaling in the GP series. H/D are undefeated this season and beat both Russian teams and the Canadians this year.

In no way do I mean to discount the american teams as I love them all and they are all very talented. I just know there are 3 positions on the podium and at least 7 teams who are serious contenders for them. I think the ice dance field hasn't been this tight in a very long time. I would love to see an american team on the podium but it is far from guaranteed.

 

[chantilly]

I have no idea.

Too many variables.

If everyone skates clean, W and P IMO should place 2nd in the RD.
H and D third.

Sinkats 4 th

C and B are unknown to me as I have yet to see their Nationals RD. But could and possibly should beat Sinkats.

Then FB/S from Canada. They are woefully undermarked IMO. They should be getting highest GOE’s with maybe the exception of P and C and maybe W and P. And I also think their PCS should be high.

G and P or S and B, next. Whoever gets the higher levels. Maybe I’d give the edge to S and B for performance.

Over all based on the season so far, the fact that the judges have more power again, momentum, and the inevitable politics, if I were a betting woman, I’m guessing:

1) P and C
2) S and K
3) H and D
4) W and P
5) C and B
6) S and B
7) G and F
8) G and P.

 

[VGThuy]

I hope the Danadians become Canadian Champions sooner rather than later.

 

[sharsk8s]

I have no idea.

Too many variables.

If everyone skates clean, W and P IMO should place 2nd in the RD.
H and D third.

Sinkats 4 th

C and B are unknown to me as I have yet to see their Nationals RD. But could and possibly should beat Sinkats.

Then FB/S from Canada. They are woefully undermarked IMO. They should be getting highest GOE’s with maybe the exception of P and C and maybe W and P. And I also think their PCS should be high.

G and P or S and B, next. Whoever gets the higher levels. Maybe I’d give the edge to S and B for performance.

Over all based on the season so far, the fact that the judges have more power again, momentum, and the inevitable politics, if I were a betting woman, I’m guessing:

1) P and C
2) S and K
3) H and D
4) W and P
5) C and B
6) S and B
7) G and F
8) G and P.

I cannot imagine S/B coming 6th. I think internationally S/B are favored over S/K especially if both skate their max and are far more consistent than S/K. I think it is hard to tell where C/B will fall since we haven't seen their scores at a major international yet.

 

[VGThuy]

I cannot imagine S/B coming 6th. I think internationally S/B are favored over S/K especially if both skate their max and are far more consistent than S/K. I think it is hard to tell where C/B will fall since we haven't seen their scores at a major international yet.

Didn't seem that way at the GPF.

 

[sharsk8s]

Didn't seem that way at the GPF.

At GPF S/B didn't skate their best if I remember correctly. I think Euros showed that at their best S/B are real contenders. I think both S/B and S/K have real medal potential it just matters who skates clean.

 

[chantilly]

I hope the Danadians become Canadian Champions sooner rather than later.

I was prepared to not like them as I do like Soucisse and Firus and feel that they were taking their spot so to speak, but I fell in love with them. Over all I think that they have the best sets of programs of the top 4 Canadian teams , although mood wise they are similar. but I love their athletic and romantic and smooth style. I would have little problem with routing for their win at Nationals next year.

I love W and P's RD but am underwhelmed by the FD and opposite of G and P. And IMO G and P have skated tight all season. The FD is brilliant but they still have some work to do on smoothing out some awkward and rough spots and transitions.

 

[alain06fr]

Lesson learned from this week: It's all about skating skills and speed for the judges under this +5/-5 system. The team with superior SS won PCS and GoEs in USA, CAN and RUS Nationals. I think if everyone skates clean at Worlds, the advantage goes to HubDon, WeaPo and SinKats for medals. It's almost like the 90s where speed/skating skills matter more than an interesting program or "levels".

Though some judges may already take it into account, speed is not so far among the official criteria to discrimate the ice dance couples but it sounds like this could change for next season.

 

[Wyliefan]

I was just looking at season's best scores for dancers, like I did earlier for ladies (let's face it, it's more fun than working ). FWIW -- always bearing in mind the warnings about comparing scores across competitions -- here's how they stack up:

P/C 217.98
S/B 206.41
H/D 205.35
S/K 201.37
G/P 201.27
G/F 199.84
C/B 197.42
W/P 197.27

 

[deegee]

I was just looking at season's best scores for dancers, like I did earlier for ladies (let's face it, it's more fun than working ). FWIW -- always bearing in mind the warnings about comparing scores across competitions -- here's how they stack up:

P/C 217.98
S/B 206.41
H/D 205.35
S/K 201.37
G/P 201.27
G/F 199.84
C/B 197.42
W/P 197.27

i feel like, barring disaster *cough*nikita'stwizzles*cough* this is probably how they'll stack up by country at worlds, though i wouldn't be suprised if the u.s. or russia had different skaters in those slots.

 

[Wyliefan]

Canada too.

 

[yurokis40]

Hopefully Weapo end up on the podium they deserve it, I remember the last time they skated in saitama in 2014 they were brilliant and should have won, I think their FD is strong enough to podium but they need to get all their levels I just don't want them to finish fourth again, their fd is superior to H&D for all its worth and I don't know why people assume that sinkats should be ahead of them they have a good rd, but their fd is bad reminiscent of Russian teams from the 90's, I think having Igor is a big plus he can put all his weight behind them this year.

 

[Ka3sha]

My early prediction: Hubbel/Donohue, Weaver/Poje and SinKats will be fighting for silver and bronze (in that order).

And with these teams a lot will depend on twizzles, as we know that twizzles have been a tricky element for all three teams, and the chances that all of them will nail twizzles in both RD and FD are pretty low.
In case all three teams have mistakes, Stepanova/Bukin will gladly take their medal

 

[yurokis40]

My early prediction: Hubbel/Donohue, Weaver/Poje and SinKats will be fighting for silver and bronze (in that order).

And with these teams a lot will depend on twizzles, as we know that twizzles have been a tricky element for all three teams, and the chances that all of them will nail twizzles in both RD and FD are pretty low.
In case all three teams have mistakes, Stepanova/Bukin will gladly take their medal

it seems Igor has fixed Poje's twizzles fingers crossed, sinkats got hurt by not even being on the podium at euros.

 

[cocotaffy]

Can't wait for 4CC, this will give us a better idea with H/D, C/B, W/P, G/P,Hawayek/Baker and FB/S battling it out. Exciting especially because we have yet to see W/P, C/B and FB/S in an international competition of this importance. Even if their programs have not been such a hit on this forum, H/D have a great record this season and will be entering the competition as the strong leader imo. Yet C/B and W/P look both fresh and revitalized with good to great programs well FD for C/B and RD for W/P (of course my personal opinion). I also seriously hope FB/S can make a splash and at least outrank Hawayek/Baker, I have nothing against the latter but FB/S are a more even team and have great SS plus such a strong chemistry with great programs this year.

 

[cholla]

P/C 217.98
S/B 206.41
H/D 205.35
S/K 201.37
G/P 201.27
G/F 199.84
C/B 197.42
W/P 197.27

The proof is in the mathematics (if not in the cake). Those scores show, if necessary, that in ice dance, you have P/C, then the rest of the world. Or P/C vs mere mortals. I am a huge fan of W/P, they are excellent ice dancers, just as all the others of this list are. Still, they are almost 21 points behind. My bet for Worlds would be this exact ranking BTW, for the exception of S/K that I'd put ahead of H/D (unless Nikita is again in the mood for a splatfest). Not because they are better skater, but simply because H/D's FD is not doing justice to their talent and potential.

 

[Wyliefan]

I'm not fond of H/D's FD either, but going by how they've done this season, the judges seem to like it a lot better than we do!

 

[cholla]

Then let's see how it goes at Worlds with another panel.

 

[pat c]

Then let's see how it goes at Worlds with another panel.

It'll be interesting to say the least. I think it's really tight this year. Like others have said, there are 5 or 6 teams that can easily be on the podium. One mistake in the rd could sink a team down to 7th or 8th. I don't think they'll be able to recover.

 

[Dobre]

I also seriously hope FB/S can make a splash and at least outrank Hawayek/Baker, I have nothing against the latter but FB/S are a more even team and have great SS plus such a strong chemistry with great programs this year.

I think it will be an interesting head-to-head. H&B passed F-B&S internationally about two seasons ago, and I'm not sure I would describe F-B&S as more even historically. (Their GP results haven't been so hot in the past, and they've had issues with level two footwork sequences & his twizzles. While H&B have had fairly similar issues over the past couple years, plus a few high-profile falls). But I think F-B&S have stepped up the performance ability this season, and I am curious to see if they can deliver on the pattern with an international panel. (I'm not at all convinced that H&B can, despite the calls to the contrary at Nationals). Competitively, it seems like both teams are learning from their experience in the past and putting out more solid performances under pressure this season. Looking forward to seeing how the event plays out!

 

[sharsk8s]

I feel like all the calls at nationals need to be put down the drain. We will never see so many L4 TR in an international competition.

 

[cocotaffy]

I think it will be an interesting head-to-head. H&B passed F-B&S internationally about two seasons ago, and I'm not sure I would describe F-B&S as more even historically. (Their GP results haven't been so hot in the past, and they've had issues with level two footwork sequences & his twizzles. While H&B have had fairly similar issues over the past couple years, plus a few high-profile falls). But I think F-B&S have stepped up the performance ability this season, and I am curious to see if they can deliver on the pattern with an international panel. (I'm not at all convinced that H&B can, despite the calls to the contrary at Nationals). Competitively, it seems like both teams are learning from their experience in the past and putting out more solid performances under pressure this season. Looking forward to seeing how the event plays out!

My poor command of English strikes again ... I wanted to say evenly matched skating skill wise and also physically but Hawayek being so petite doesn't play in his favor. Even though Guignard Fabbri have truly mastered their way around that. When I watch H/B lifts I always feel worried whereas I never have that watching the Italians.

 

[starrynight]

I feel like all the calls at nationals need to be put down the drain. We will never see so many L4 TR in an international competition.

The results at Nationals are more interesting in the way they rank skaters internally. Like, who did they give level 4s to, who did they give level 2s to etc. It’s more of a relative exercise than a stand alone issue. Although sometimes the internal agenda at Nationals is totally different to the way things are seen internationally.

But yes, Nationals are altogether different to international comps. Some Nationals don’t even have a full panel of judges.

 

[cholla]

My poor command of English strikes again

Off topic/side note : I know a lot of people who'd kill to have your "poor command of English"

 

[Eisfee]

Off topic/side note : I know a lot of people who'd kill to have your "poor command of English"

I'm always shy to write here because my English isn't so good.

 

[cocotaffy]

I'm always shy to write here because my English isn't so good.

Please don't be because as the queen of typo who has to edit her posts twenty times and still make some mistakes I gave up being shy long ago. Many here are not native speakers anyway so post long and often ( and be sorry later when people misunderstand you )