#TeamTrainwreck 22: Every dark cloud has a pewter lining!

[tony]

For the initial 24 spots:

Next highest ranked athlete from the NOCs not qualified with three (3) and two (2) places, until the quotas of qualification through the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2021 are reached.

NOCs, who through their ISU Members Nation, have earned the necessary points according to Rule 378, paragraph 2b) and c) will have the right for two (2) or three (3) entries, only if, in addition, they had two (2) or respectively three (3) Skaters/Pairs/Couples qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance in the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2021 (ISU Rule 400, paragraph 3).

For the remaining 6 spots:

The remaining quota places will be allocated to the NOCs at a Senior International Qualification Competition designated by the ISU (TBD* – Autumn 2021). Only one (1) quota place per discipline per NOC may be earned. Quota places will be allocated to NOCs based on their highest ranked athletes in the competition in the respective discipline. Only the following NOCs may be allocated a quota place: • NOCs which have not earned any quota places in the respective discipline in D.1; • NOCs which have earned the necessary points for two (2) or three (3) entries but did not have two (2) or respectively three (3) Skaters qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2021. This quota place will be in addition to the quota place(s) that the NOC had earned in D.1. These ISU members are entitled to enter one (1) Skater in the qualifying event who had not qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2021.

 

[Vagabond]

I still think it was switched so that anyone qualifying to the LP gets at least the one spot for their country and BEL and CAN don't get included in the 24. They are included in the potential 6 later on.

Even so, if Březinová falters on Friday, she might not earn that berth. Making the Free Skate is not a guarantee.

 

[tony]

Even so, if Březinová falters on Friday, she might not earn that berth. Making the Free Skate is not a guarantee.

Read the rules again that I've just outlined. The rules have changed. They are there for everyone to interpret.

 

[Colonel Green]

Even so, if Březinová falters on Friday, she might not earn that berth. Making the Free Skate is not a guarantee.

That's what we're discussing, it looks like making the free skate is a guarantee under the new rules.

This will all be cleared up soon, regardless.

 

[Karen-W]

Read the rules again that I've just outlined. The rules have changed. They are there for everyone to interpret.

My interpretation is that a country with 2 entries that earns 13 or fewer points still needs to earn the 3rd spot because they didn't have a 3rd skater qualify for the FS at Worlds.

FSR and JPN will earn 3 spots outright, provided their top 2 finishers earn 13 or less points.

USA & KOR will earn 2 spots outright and will need to earn their 3rd spot at Nebelhorn, provided their 2 skaters earn 13 points or less.

CAN & BEL will earn 1 spot outright and will need to earn their 2nd spot at Nebelhorn, provided their current ladies remain in the top 10 (not likely since Trusova is bound to come storming back in the FS and knock one of them out).

 

[Vagabond]

That's what we're discussing, it looks like making the free skate is a guarantee under the new rules.

This will all be cleared up soon, regardless.

It wasn't a guarantee under the old rules either. The example that sticks in my mind is when Candice Didier finished twenty-fourth at Worlds in 2009 after that horrific fall.

 

[Colonel Green]

It wasn't a guarantee under the old rules either. The example that sticks in my mind is when Candice Didier finished twenty-fourth at Worlds in 2009 after that horrific fall.

Yes, but we’re discussing the new rules.

 

[tony]

It wasn't a guarantee under the old rules either. The example that sticks in my mind is when Candice Didier finished twenty-fourth at Worlds in 2009 after that horrific fall.

I think you're getting your arguing point confused. First, we all know that some skaters towards the bottom of the qualified for the LP sometimes missed out on the Olympics qual previously. That's why I brought up Rakimgaliev two times getting into the Olympics this way, leapfrogging other skaters who actually made the LP at Worlds or were at Worlds to begin with. That's what we are saying has now changed.

Also, Didier was 22nd place and missed out on her birth because of what happened above her after she repeated too many 2As and had an entire sequence wiped out.

 

[Vagabond]

Read the rules again that I've just outlined. The rules have changed. They are there for everyone to interpret.

There you go again. I have read the rules. Perhaps you misinterpreted what I wrote.

If you can't be , you are going to struggle @TTW.

 

[tony]

There you go again. I have read the rules. Perhaps you misinterpreted what I wrote.

If you can't be , you are going to struggle @TTW.

I'm not misinterpreting anything, but when you stress things are not a guarantee and then bring up some incorrect info and counterargument that is not relative, I'm just not quite sure that you're reading anything at all.

 

[Ka3sha]

I know ttw is all about rules and especially qualifying rules, as boss and press like to remind us... but i am not sure they mean the rules you are discussing now

 

[Ka3sha]

And, most importantly, GO EMPRESS!

 

[skatingguy]

I did start a new thread to discuss all this - don't want to get the #TTW thread all filled up with discussions of success - more focus on Alex Paganini or Kailani Craine - any others who should have made the free skate & wrecked?

 

[Vagabond]

I did start a new thread to discuss all this - don't want to get the #TTW thread all filled up with discussions of success - more focus on Alex Paganini or Kailani Craine - any others who should have made the free skate & wrecked?

Not that she wuzrobbed, but Kurakova should have made the FS and did wreck. I hope that she can go back to Canada during the offseason. And #TTW favorite Kiibus was below par.

 

[skatingguy]

Not that she wuzrobbed, but Kurakova should have made the FS and did wreck. I hope that she can go back to Canada during the offseason. And #TTW favorite Kiibus was below par.

Overall, looking at the standings there are a lot of skaters in surprising positions. It was not a proforma short program at all.

 

[Vagabond]

Overall, looking at the standings there are a lot of skaters in surprising positions. It was not a proforma short program at all.

It's as if the Short Program itself were taking revenge for the imposition of seedings.

 

[Astolat]

My concern is mounting that Trusova might be eligible for The Train at some point in the not-too-distant future...

I was thinking the same... Things that are already there:

3) Belly showing - her training outfits! (belly showing in Stella McCartney gear, she is killing it)
4) Mule kick - not sure
5) Being Uzbek/Russian - yes
7) Bizarre off-ice incidents - probably not, unless training with Plushchenko or having to leave her dog at home counts (or her dad allegedly doing this or that)
8) Coach - YES
9) Costume (-Malfunction) - do you remember those spikes at one of the competitions? Plus last year something didn't work in the SP as well
10) Splats - define "splats"...
11) Bizarre choreography - I wouldn't say that, though her "5th element" program was weird to me
12) Hair - OH YES
14) dying in the second half of the program - not sure, but wouldn't count that out

I hope that she proves me wrong!

 

[skatingguy]

It's as if the Short Program itself were taking revenge for the imposition of seedings.

Random skate order for the free skate created with or without a draw.

 

[SmallFairy]

This must be the most serious line of posts ever in #ttw

Thanks everyone who’s trying to explain.

 

[SmallFairy]

Ladies SP was indeed.... action filled. I’m still in tears for Mae. And so thrilled for Josefin and for Jenni’s exquisite program that I don’t manage to rage about results high up in the standings too much.

Empress/Mama La Tuk on podium so far, wow.
Anna S. is so growing on me this season. She is indeed special.
Loena means business. She was soooo pissed about the flip.
Honestly, Trusova’s program is a no fit. Get rid of it.
Madeleine S. such a pleasant surprise.
Kurakova needs the power of cuteness back.
Bradie needs to let loose. Cut the hair and go all in.
Satoko perfection program, but the jumps...
Kaori I could watch all day, so smooth. Bach?Jazzy Bach?
Rika I don’t get. She needs to find a style.

I realised I really miss Dubinina and Pernille Sørensen.

Olympic qualifying will be hard.
(((France))) (((Italy)))

 

[SmallFairy]

Do hard: If someone actually resembled Debbie Harry!

 

[SmallFairy]

In other news: Smirnov is posting again!

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[skatingguy]

In other news: Smirnov is posting again!

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Is he checking for swollen glands? Is that a known symptom or something new? He seems to be sweating a lot, so he must have a fever.

 

[SamuraiK]

Sorry, got the sisters confused - I can never remember who is 1 & who is 2 - Brezinova has earned the Czech Republic an Olympic berth as well by making the free skate.

Making the FS is not a guarantee. The 24 spots are filled from 1st place including multiple quotas so JPN,RUS, USA, KOR will take a lot and the 21st-24th places could end up out.

 

[skatingguy]

Making the FS is not a guarantee. The 24 spots are filled from 1st place including multiple quotas so JPN,RUS, USA, KOR will take a lot and the 21st-24th places could end up out.

That's no longer the case.

 

[SamuraiK]

That's no longer the case.

It still s.. for instance. let's take KOR . If the SP placements stay they can get potentially 3 spots. Of course the 3rd one will have to be confirmed at Nebelhorn but it takes away the direct ticket from the skater placing 24th here.

The new rules only make Nebelhorn even more important cause there will be avialable the 6 usual spots + the additional from the big feds that are no longer free ticket for their lower skaters.

 

[kwanfan1818]

That's what we're discussing, it looks like making the free skate is a guarantee under the new rules.

I don't see how that is a correct interpretation of this:

Next highest ranked athlete from the NOCs not qualified with three (3) and two (2) places, until the quotas of qualification through the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2021 are reached.

The way I read the document, making the Free only guarantees a spot for the Olympics where the total spots earned is two or three, maxxing out at the places earned. Where there is only one competitor who places lower than 10th, but makes the Free Skate, whether they earn a spot for the Olympics depends on whether the fixed quota is reached before or after they'd be eligible.

Hasn't it always been the case that if one skater/team is sent to Worlds, and they don't make the Free, the NOC doesn't qualify for the Olympics?

If the number of spots earned>number of skaters/teams making the FS, the only thing guaranteed is a chance to send skaters to qualify that spot (one max) and earn a spot from the qualifying quota, which starts with a fixed number, but can be increased if NOC's give back spot(s) in time.

*According to the 2019 document, Pairs is down to 19 entries (from 20) and Ice Dance is down to 23 entries (from 24). It's the document cited by IFS Magazine in an article from December 2020. It used to be 19 spots from Worlds and five earned at the Fall qualifier for Ice Dance, and 16 spots from Worlds, and four earned at the Fall qualifier for Pairs, but the document doesn't show the breakdown.

ETA: I don't see any language to indicate that the fixed World quota is reduced by the number of potential spots earned at Worlds, but need to be qualified. For example, if Country A sends two Ladies, and they place 8th and 31st (not reaching the FS), that doesn't mean there are only 23 spaces to be earned for Worlds and seven at Nebelhorn. That NOC can send a skater to Nebelhorn to earn one of the six qualifier spots.

That makes Worlds as important as Nebelhorn, because if you don't snag a spot in Stockholm, you may be competing against stronger skaters at Nebelhorn, whether because of a strong NOC with politiks, illness or injury, or if there is a strong Junior who wasn't age-qualified for this season, but will be for 2021-22.

 

[Vagabond]

Kordeiru's hair deserves its own component in the PCS

Such a shame that pair doesn't meet the Criteria!

 

[tony]

I don't see how that is a correct interpretation of this:

The way I read the document, making the Free only guarantees a spot for the Olympics where the total spots earned is two or three, maxxing out at the places earned. Where there is only one competitor who places lower than 10th, but makes the Free Skate, whether they earn a spot for the Olympics depends on whether the fixed quota is reached before or after they'd be eligible.

That's not what the next part of the document says, though.

I know it's hard to visualize, but if you have 24 spots and no country can add a skater by placements until Nebelhorn, all 24 of those free skate qualifiers are making it unless the country is losing a spot by not placing their skaters high enough to retain 2 or 3 entries.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't see how that is a correct interpretation of this:

Next highest ranked athlete from the NOCs not qualified with three (3) and two (2) places, until the quotas of qualification through the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2021 are reached.

You need to read the rest of that section...

"NOCs, who through their ISU Members Nation, have earned the necessary points according to Rule 378, paragraph 2b) and c) will have the right for two (2) or three (3) entries, only if, in addition, they had two (2) or respectively three (3) Skaters/Pairs/Couples qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance in the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2021 (ISU Rule 400, paragraph 3)."

It's pretty clear that if the NOC only had 2 entries at Worlds, they only can guarantee 2 entries through their Worlds placements, and they can earn a 3rd at Nebelhorn if their 2 entries had less than 13 points. Same concept applies to teams that only had 1 entry at Worlds - you can earn a 2nd entry at Nebelhorn if your 1 entry finished in the top 10.