Russian women news & updates, 2021-22 season

[hanca]

I don't think I explained myself clearly.

I believe the name calling, especially in the press is just another form of gaslighting and borderline abuse. So yes SinKats have their medals, as do V/M but looking at Shabalin in 2010 was horrific. Some of these athletes have some medals but some have have also gained a lifetime of knee and back treatments. What looks like heroism to some looks like desperation to others.

Based on the comments coming from Zhulin the heroism from SinKats did give them their mysteriously high marks at times. I just wistfully hoped that a different culture existed or at least a parallel universe.

I don’t think it is name calling. I think they behave in a manner that’s consider normal and acceptable in Russia, and you are judging them according to the western values. It is normal in Russia that the coaches speak openly to media and say what they think, although in western countries it would be considered unprofessional. (Although it does happen there too. Frank Carroll talking to media about Gracie Gold…)
If Russian coaches think someone does not work hard enough, they will say it. No one called her lazy, but they did mention that she was missing trainings. All her previous coaches said that, so they can’t all lie.

 

[Bigbird]

I don’t think it is name calling. I think they behave in a manner that’s consider normal and acceptable in Russia, and you are judging them according to the western values. It is normal in Russia that the coaches speak openly to media and say what they think, although in western countries it would be considered unprofessional. (Although it does happen there too. Frank Carroll talking to media about Gracie Gold…)
If Russian coaches think someone does not work hard enough, they will say it. No one called her lazy, but they did mention that she was missing trainings. All her previous coaches said that, so they can’t all lie.

Of course they all cannot be lying. She most likely was burnt out and frustrated and didn't know how to deal with it. V/M when they had issues went to marriage therapy. P/C when they suffered from burn out they stepped away from the sport and their coaches never betrayed their dignity in the press. They healed and now are Gold medalists. I completely understand the Russian culture of harshness. It's called emotional blackmail. It's in full display now in Ukraine. Athletes overtrain in part to prevent anything but a glowing report within the press. But ultimately they're going to lose many many great talents as a result.

 

[canbelto]

Aliona has gorgeous qualities as a skater. I'm looking forward to seeing whatever she has to offer, 3A or no.

 

[becca]

That’s a weird choice. I understand why she is leaving Tutberidze, because Tutberidze will have youngsters moving up to seniors (unless ISU moves the age of eligibility from next season), but it is not as if Buyanova was so successful in recent years. The last successful skater she had was Danielian two years ago; he was successful one season and the disappeared.

I don’t think it’s necessarily normal to have the kind of factory Eteri has.

I mean that wasn’t normal.

I think Buyanova had clearly developed some great skaters. I adored Elene G and Adelina! Big jumps great skating skills presentation! Flexibility!

She really helped develop the late Denis Ten too. He came to Frank with great skating skills jumps and presentation and that was due to a lot of her work.

Her skaters aren’t as consistent as Eteris but we all know it’s not normal.

She clearly is a great coach.

 

[Scott512]

Broken bones are less common than other kinds of skating injuries, like muscle pulls/tears. Why don't you look at the pattern of injuries of Eteri's skaters, rather than writing those off as "it's a tough sport".

I wish there was a way the Russian figure skating Federation could get TT to pull back on their training a little bit. Those girls win so many medals and go so hard it's going to be hard for them to stop because figure skating from TT in the last five or ten years has been one of the highlights of Russian sports with isn't what it used to be.

Also the the parents of the students at TT

I’m looking forward to the next chapter of Kostornaia’s career…with beautiful musical programs. Hopefully, she’s moved beyond her fascination with Eilish. And no more funereal NY, NY.

and anywhere else in Russia or any Academy in the world need to be more involved in more on top of what their children are being put through. The coach lets the parents sit in the stands if they want but they can't get really involved or they get expelled like what happened to Alinas mother. A torn ankle ligament ended adelina's career at 18. A torn ankle ligament changed Alievs career a year-and-a-half ago. Plushie and Yags have hardware stores in their backs. There are a lot of ligament injuries there are a lot of back injuries and there are a lot of fractures or stress fractures. TT is not going to reduce their workload by 30% or 40% that would probably help a lot but might hurt their performance too. She is a top coach and motivator that's what she knows and that's what she does. If the system worked better other people could fill in the gaps for other important categories like health and emotional well-being and watching that they don't do too many hours of training 6 days a week.

 

[Scott512]

I’m looking forward to the next chapter of Kostornaia’s career…with beautiful musical programs. Hopefully, she’s moved beyond her fascination with Eilish. And no more funereal NY, NY.

Yes please no more Billie. There are so many great programs out there for this great skater and she will be the featured lady at CSKA and not number 6 or 7 at TT.

2 years ago when Aliona was the best lady her skating skills normally got scores of 9.5 to 10.0. That is astounding her skills were that great. I hope she can get back to that or at least close to it. But she will need programs to help her and she hasn't had the best programs the last season or 2 let's put it that way.

 

[Scott512]

I don’t think it’s necessarily normal to have the kind of factory Eteri has.

I mean that wasn’t normal.

I think Buyanova had clearly developed some great skaters. I adored Elene G and Adelina! Big jumps great skating skills presentation! Flexibility!

She really helped develop the late Denis Ten too. He came to Frank with great skating skills jumps and presentation and that was due to a lot of her work.

Her skaters aren’t as consistent as Eteris but we all know it’s not normal.

She clearly is a great coach.

Was a great coach but I hope she can pull something out of Aliona or maybe someone on her staff. I just feel like this girl's confidence is shattered. She should put her ultra jump on the shelf just do great programs with triples for now. There is no reason to rush things for Aliona.
We don't even know if Russia will be allowed to compete next seaso other than domestically. There was a lot of pressure for her to get her triple axel back at TT. I don't think that helped her mentality. And the apology tour she went on when she went back to TT really bothered me.

I feel sad for AK that she got brushed aside here by TT but this is an opportunity for her to be clearly the number one lady at CSKA and get top programs and choreography whereas at TT she was probably the number 6 lady.

Elene G?

 

[overedge]

I wish there was a way the Russian figure skating Federation could get TT to pull back on their training a little bit. Those girls win so many medals and go so hard

You just answered your own question. The girls win medals. Why would the Federation want to interfere with that?

Also the the parents of the students at TT


and anywhere else in Russia or any Academy in the world need to be more involved in more on top of what their children are being put through.

Please stop with this parent blaming. It's been explained to you numerous times why the parents might put their children in this dangerous environment, and how the parents are kept away from their kids. What part of "the parents are not allowed to be more involved" are you missing?

If the system worked better other people could fill in the gaps for other important categories like health and emotional well-being and watching that they don't do too many hours of training 6 days a week.

Like you said above, the girls win medals. Unfortunately no one is likely to threaten that success by cutting back training or monitoring the skaters' emotional well-being.

 

[Scott512]

You just answered your own question. The girls win medals. Why would the Federation want to interfere with that?


Please stop with this parent blaming. It's been explained to you numerous times why the parents might put their children in this dangerous environment, and how the parents are kept away from their kids. What part of "the parents are not allowed to be more involved" are you missing?



Like you said above, the girls win medals. Unfortunately no one is likely to threaten that success by cutting back training or monitoring the skaters' emotional well-being.

If things don't change a little bit now they never will. I mean TT had an amazing Olympics 1st 2nd and 4th in the ladies competition 2nd could have been 1st in pairs top 10 in men's and top 15 in dance. I've never seen a coach or a team put up those kind of numbers at 1 Olympis in multiple disciplines. T & M were really born again training at TT. But people aren't talking about that they're talking about the issues with KV and the injuries and now alionas departure. The coaches know how to coach and they are great at that but not great at a lot of other things and it's the same with the skaters they know how to skate and they are learning about life on the go at young ages and that's tough.

I would like to see new leadership at the Russian figure skating federation the people have been there too long. I would also like to see new leadership at RUSADA. Those wishes are probably a pipe dream because it's hard to uproot people who have power in Russia or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[overedge]

If things don't change a little bit now they never will. I mean TT had an amazing Olympics 1st 2nd and 4th in the ladies competition 2nd could have been 1st in pairs top 10 in men's and top 15 in dance. I've never seen a coach or a team put up those kind of numbers at 1 Olympis in multiple disciplines. T & M were really born again training at TT. But people aren't talking about that they're talking about the issues with KV and the injuries and now alionas departure.

Well, yes. Because abusive training practices and failed drug tests are more important than where the skaters placed. Weren't you just talking about the importance of skaters' health and emotional well-being?

The coaches know how to coach and they are great at that

Are they? They don't seem to understand some pretty basic things, like how many hours a day are safe to train, how to motivate skaters in a healthy way, and what substances are and aren't OK to give to underage skaters. "Knowing how to coach" isn't just about getting medals.

 

[PRlady]

"A 2012 paper about sexual dimorphism in elite sports named reduced strength-to-weight ratio, and reduced tolerance for exercise as disadvantages for women, but said it was advantageous that they were "more susceptible to psychophysiological control"

That's from the thread about the "science" used on Russian, particularly Eteri's, girl skaters. The last phrase is pretty much all I need to read to conclude that these people are monstrous. And the thread has the receipts. https://twitter.com/GabbyPaluch/status/1498924994373562372?s=20&t=h--PunbEKVd58WCCgCr2eQ

 

[muffinplus]

"A 2012 paper about sexual dimorphism in elite sports named reduced strength-to-weight ratio, and reduced tolerance for exercise as disadvantages for women, but said it was advantageous that they were "more susceptible to psychophysiological control"

That's from the thread about the "science" used on Russian, particularly Eteri's, girl skaters. The last phrase is pretty much all I need to read to conclude that these people are monstrous. And the thread has the receipts. https://twitter.com/GabbyPaluch/status/1498924994373562372?s=20&t=h--PunbEKVd58WCCgCr2eQ

What receipts? This twitter thread is complete garbage/ a collection of unrelated hodge podge studies spun into a conspiracy theory. The person mistranslated half the stuff she is quoted. The word ”control” is not even translated correctly from that paper and the study found no such thing (that women are more easily controlled). If you don’t speak Russian or haven’t bothered to read what she is quoting, then I don’t even think you can make an assessment

What the study she is quoting is talking about is "athletes being able to control their mental state" as key to success as opposed to someone exercising control over an athlete. What it found was that ”knowing individual traits/ personalities of female athletes, the details of relationships with male coaches and mixed teams will allow a coach to more effectively lead a team”. I actually downloaded /read some of the stuff that “journalist” is spinning. And she is using it to somehow prove that Eteri uses mind control over girls?

Honestly, the whole thread sounds just about as delusional/conspiracy theory as Russian propaganda can sound. My brain turned to mush just reading it… the worst thing is people are actually nodding and responding to it without actually checking the sources being able to understand any of the sources.

 

[soogar]

If things don't change a little bit now they never will. I mean TT had an amazing Olympics 1st 2nd and 4th in the ladies competition 2nd could have been 1st in pairs top 10 in men's and top 15 in dance. I've never seen a coach or a team put up those kind of numbers at 1 Olympis in multiple disciplines. T & M were really born again training at TT. But people aren't talking about that they're talking about the issues with KV and the injuries and now alionas departure. The coaches know how to coach and they are great at that but not great at a lot of other things and it's the same with the skaters they know how to skate and they are learning about life on the go at young ages and that's tough.

I honestly think that T&M really benefitted from Eteri's organizational skills. She assembled a great team to work with them, and organize their ice. I think Eteri's team gave T&M programs that showcased them to their best abilities. Eteri has great attention to detail and really finds ways to best suit the individual skater. That really seems to get lost with the issues she has with the ladies. She clearly knew how to work with this older pair as well because they both remained healthy this season. Her daughter also remained healthy. Even Morisi has benefitted from training with her and he seems healthy and happy as well.

I think that the opportunities and money with the girls brings out the worse in them.

 

[overedge]

I think that the opportunities and money with the girls brings out the worse in them.

"Them" being the girls or the coaches?

And honestly, saying that some skaters look happy and healthy is the worst kind of whataboutism. Skaters being abused and other skaters not being abused can both be true at the same time. It doesn't make the abuse any less real or less awful, or any more acceptable.

 

[soogar]

"Them" being the girls or the coaches?

And honestly, saying that some skaters look happy and healthy is the worst kind of whataboutism. Skaters being abused and other skaters not being abused can both be true at the same time. It doesn't make the abuse any less real or less awful, or any more acceptable.

Then being the coaches- because it’s not limited to Eteri. Though it is bringing out worse in Trusova as well.

T&M had a great situation because they were the sole couple. The situation in Moskvina‘s group is more intense.

If Eteri starts working with a lot of couples, the situation would probably be similar to the ladies.

 

[overedge]

What receipts? This twitter thread is complete garbage/ a collection of unrelated hodge podge studies spun into a conspiracy theory. The person mistranslated half the stuff she is quoted. The word ”control” is not even translated correctly from that paper and the study found no such thing (that women are more easily controlled). If you don’t speak Russian or haven’t bothered to read what she is quoting, then I don’t even think you can make an assessment

What the study she is quoting is talking about is "athletes being able to control their mental state" as key to success as opposed to someone exercising control over an athlete. What it found was that ”knowing individual traits/ personalities of female athletes, the details of relationships with male coaches and mixed teams will allow a coach to more effectively lead a team”. I actually downloaded /read some of the stuff that “journalist” is spinning. And she is using it to somehow prove that Eteri uses mind control over girls?

Honestly, the whole thread sounds just about as delusional/conspiracy theory as Russian propaganda can sound. My brain turned to mush just reading it… the worst thing is people are actually nodding and responding to it without actually checking the sources being able to understand any of the sources.

Then enlighten us, if we are all so misinformed. What exactly has been mistranslated? Not just individual words, but the sections that show what you say the study is claiming.

 

[muffinplus]

Then enlighten us, if we are all so misinformed. What exactly has been mistranslated? Not just individual words, but the sections that show what you say the study is claiming.

i already translated for you in my post? The word control is completely mistranslated as it does not refer to external control of an individual…when control is mentioned it refers to an individual’s internal control over their emotional state

https://twitter.com/moulinsonata/status/1499200470694432774?s=20&t=CIJwE12qdYpvVhmDElVQsw

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Conclusion:

"Psychophysilogical control of one's current state (i.e Ability to control one's current mental state) in practice corresponds to the level of mental performance ; knowledge of individual personalities/behaviors of female athletes, the knowledge intricacies of the relationships between female athletes and male coaches as well between female and male athletes in mixed tems allows a coach to effectively lead teams/individuals"

there is nothing about women being more controllable…that is just some random made up bs.

I am not going to bother looking into everything she mistranslated but there is a lot more..

you don’t speak Russian anyways but you are free to not believe me…

But even if there was any such conclusion (which there isn't because this is just some random stuff she decided to take from a literal book), what the heck is the connection between this random book and Tutberidze?

 

[overedge]

i already translated for you in my post? The word control is completely mistranslated as it does not refer to external control of an individual…when control is mentioned it refers to an individual’s internal control over their emotional state

https://twitter.com/moulinsonata/status/1499200470694432774?s=20&t=CIJwE12qdYpvVhmDElVQsw

there is nothing about women being more controllable…that is just some random made up bs.

I am not going to bother looking into everything she mistranslated but there is a lot more..

you don’t speak Russian anyways but you are free to not believe me…

You claimed that certain words had been mistranslated, and you explained those. But you also claimed that large parts of the study had been either misreported or mistranslated.

The Twitter link you posted doesn't claim that the word "control" was mistranslated. It claims that the original Tweeter didn't understand the context in which "control" was being used. That's different from getting the actual word wrong.

No, I don't speak Russian, but no, I am not going to believe you when you say the report on the study is so fundamentally wrong but you aren't going to offer proof of why the whole study was misrepresented. Not just individual words allegedly being misunderstood.

 

[muffinplus]

It's not the word... it's the whole sentence : "Women are more susceptible to psychophysiological control"

By mistranslated I mean, the meaning of the word control in the study is not "external control of an individual over another individual". And if that word is mistranslated, means that whole sentence is wrong...BUT that sentence/conclusion is NOT EVEN THERE verbatim.

That study also covered a bunch of other stuff, this is really a very small part...she literally found some very random things from that she distorted and made them into the main points of the study, whereas the whole thing is like 300 pages. That's pretty much the main part of the study she mentioned on twitter (this is just one study) that you are so outraged over.

I was saying she mistranslated /distorted other stuff as well from the other sources.

I actually edited the post to include a part of the conclusion that includes "control" that is there.

Could honestly care less if you believe some conspiracy theories that already fit an agenda you want to have in your head without actually being able to check the original sources.. I wont' bother translating everything... already spent way too much time yesterday to find out where she got this all from? Moreover even if you don't understand the sources , never mind that she has not demonstrated that these disparate sources are somehow implemented in Tutberidze's methods.

 

[overedge]

Could honestly care less if you believe some conspiracy theories that already fit an agenda you want to have in your head without actually being able to check the original sources.

Get over yourself. I'm not being outraged about this until I'm sure about what the study actually says. And that means checking the original sources. Writing people off as biased conspiracy theorists for wanting to see that very basic information says more about your bias than it does about them.

Incidentally, the Twitter user you quoted above as supporting your claims of mistranslation is either you, or someone who writes almost exactly like you do:

https://twitter.com/moulinsonata/status/1499251303490465792?s=20&t=9Z0N4cy0QwjSxWW7r2OasA

 

[muffinplus]

Get over yourself. I'm not being outraged about this until I'm sure about what the study actually says. And that means checking the original sources. Writing people off as biased conspiracy theorists for wanting to see that very basic information says more about your bias than it does about them.

I don't need to get over myself... ? You clearly agree with "The last phrase is pretty much all I need to read to conclude that these people are monstrous" post (which is basically liking this conspracy theory) without actually understanding anything what this study and the other sources actually say... never mind with the poster not demonstrating the influence this random hodge podge of articles on Tutberidze's methods.

The conspiracy theorist is the twitter poster from original thread...(not you).

 

[hanca]

I don't need to get over myself... ? You clearly agree with "The last phrase is pretty much all I need to read to conclude that these people are monstrous" post without actually understanding anything what this study actually says and with the poster not demonstrating the influence on Tutberidze's methods...

The conspiracy theorist is the twitter poster...(not you).

Why do you bother? It is clear that this forum decided that Tutberidze is evil, so whatever supports that opinion must be definitely the truth, even if ‘the proof’ is based on some dodgy mistranslated research. It is not about the truth anymore. Putin has done something awful, which was enough to make people decide all Russians are evil, and ‘the bitch’ Tutberidze is even worse because how dare she produce skaters who constantly beat their own skaters. Why bother waiting for any proof whether she really dopes her skaters, when people here just decided that it is the truth, because they want it to be the truth. I hate what Russia has done done to my country (that’s how people usually feel after being occupied for over twenty years) and yet I could always distinguish between the people who caused whatever happened to my country, and the innocent Russian people who had nothing to do with it. I never held whatever happened during my childhood against Russian skaters and coaches, in fact, I did enjoy their skating because they are good skaters! The hatred at this forum for everything Russian is just unbelievable. There is no point even trying do discuss anything, and especially not now when the psycho president is still alive.

It has been several huge boats, yachts, cruises or whatever that has been confiscated to Russian oligarchs. I am wondering why no one puts a contract on Putin and have the boats as the rewards? Surely if it is several of them, the price must be now several millions? Or, if it is not enough, confiscate more. Houses, apartments, more boats… I know the psycho is heavily protected, but nothing is impossible, if the price is right. (Bloody hell, for several million pounds, I may volunteer to do it myself!)

 

[overedge]

I don't need to get over myself... ? You clearly agree with "The last phrase is pretty much all I need to read to conclude that these people are monstrous" post (which is basically liking this conspracy theory) without actually understanding anything what this study and the other sources actually say... never mind with the poster not demonstrating the influence this random hodge podge of articles on Tutberidze's methods.

No, I don't agree with it, and I don't agree with you either. I want to see a reliable translation of the original source before I agree with anything.

Wanting to know things like the methodology, how the data were collected and analyzed, and whether the outcomes/recommendations are justified by the results of the data analysis is exactly how a reader understands what a study actually says.

Are you going to explain how the Twitter source you cited as agreeing with you writes very much the same way as you do?

 

[Wyliefan]

It is clear that this forum decided that Tutberidze is evil

Gee, I wonder why that would be ... ?

 

[bladesofgorey]

Tell us, when are you going to start blaming her for literal child abuse? Or are you just going to keep justifying it and defending it forever?

Why do you bother? It is clear that this forum decided that Tutberidze is evil, so whatever supports that opinion must be definitely the truth, even if ‘the proof’ is based on some dodgy mistranslated research. It is not about the truth anymore. Putin has done something awful, which was enough to make people decide all Russians are evil, and ‘the bitch’ Tutberidze is even worse because how dare she produce skaters who constantly beat their own skaters.

LMAO there are about 4 of you posters on here who worship a child abuser, and have worshipped her abusive methods and starvation and encouragement of eating disorders and forbidding growing children from gaining any weight. Oh but that's not evil according to this sad little posse on here I guess since y'all only like to watch abused and starved children perform tricks for you and without them you lose your interest in the sport.

 

[hanca]

Gee, I wonder why that would be ... ?

Because her skaters constantly beat your skaters and you can’t get rid of her any other way?

 

[bladesofgorey]

Because her skaters constantly beat your skaters and you can’t get rid of her any other way?

What's it like to think like this? To not believe that people actually care about the wellbeing of athletes and people who aren't them, especially if those people are children? I know it's hard to believe so you will just have to take my word for it but this is possible.

 

[Wyliefan]

Because her skaters constantly beat your skaters and you can’t get rid of her any other way?

You cannot possibly be serious.

 

[hanca]

LMAO there are about 4 of you posters on here who worship a child abuser, and have worshipped her abusive methods and starvation and encouragement of eating disorders and forbidding growing children from gaining any weight. Oh but that's not evil according to this sad little posse on here I guess since y'all only like to watch abused and starved children perform tricks for you and without them you lose your interest in the sport.

I am sorry, but I can’t see here four posters who worship a child abuser. All I see is evidence that was taken out of context, lots of assumptions etc. Whatever you are presenting as evidence would not meet the threshold for initiating child care proceedings for abuse. And I would know that, trust me.

 

[muffinplus]

No, I don't agree with it, and I don't agree with you either. I want to see a reliable translation of the original source before I agree with anything.

Wanting to know things like the methodology, how the data were collected and analyzed, and whether the outcomes/recommendations are justified by the results of the data analysis is exactly how a reader understands what a study actually says.

Are you going to explain how the Twitter source you cited as agreeing with you writes very much the same way as you do?

You don't agree with it but you liked the post. OK, whatever. This is literally a 300 page book... she decided to pick some "hot" lines from it as main outcomes of the study to suit whatever agenda she had, which are not even existent there... I haven't even bothered to read all of it, it's a long book... And again, no connection whatsoever still. I'm the twitter source... there is nothing to explain? Why are you so hung up on that?