Royalty Thread #16: the best of times, the worst of times

THR isn't really like DailyMail or the British tabloids. They're pretty reputable and well-sourced. They've broken some big stories about abusive bosses in showbiz like Scott Rudin.
 
James Middleton has a memoir coming out:

pagesix.com

Kate Middleton’s brother, James, reveals he was once ‘suicidal,’ pushed family away: ‘A complete failure’

“I know I am privileged; fortunate, too, to have a loving and close-knit family … but I push them all away,” James writes in his memoir, “Meet Ella: The Dog Who Saved My Lif…
pagesix.com pagesix.com

Apparently he was deeply depressed and suicidal. I'm shocked. It's not how the media has always presented the Middletons -- as a super happy, close-knit family.
 
It's how he describes his family in the excerpt: "Yet I know I am privileged; fortunate, too, to have a loving and close-knit family — Mum and Dad, my sisters, Catherine and Pippa, their husbands, William and James — but I push them all away."
 
canbelto said:
James Middleton has a memoir coming out:

pagesix.com

Kate Middleton’s brother, James, reveals he was once ‘suicidal,’ pushed family away: ‘A complete failure’

“I know I am privileged; fortunate, too, to have a loving and close-knit family … but I push them all away,” James writes in his memoir, “Meet Ella: The Dog Who Saved My Lif…
pagesix.com pagesix.com

Apparently he was deeply depressed and suicidal. I'm shocked. It's not how the media has always presented the Middletons -- as a super happy, close-knit family.
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Suffering from depression and suicidal ideation is something that can happen to people from happy, close-knit families too.

James has spoken before about his experience and how supportive his family was.
 
I'm just kind of surprised he's talking about this at all. Mental health problems are pretty taboo among the British aristocracy.
 
canbelto said:
I'm just kind of surprised he's talking about this at all. Mental health problems are pretty taboo among the British aristocracy.
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Minor point but the Middletons aren't British aristocracy ;)

I recall this mentioned years ago in relation to that foundation William, Kate and Harry started for mental health. So I found this article from 2019 for you:
www.townandcountrymag.com

Kate Middleton's Brother James Middleton Is Opening Up About His Battle With Depression

"It is not merely sadness. It is an illness."
www.townandcountrymag.com www.townandcountrymag.com

Big sister Kate is apparently a driving force in James opening up about his emotional hardships.

"I feel compelled to talk about it openly because this is precisely what my brother-in-law Prince William, my sister Catherine and Prince Harry are advocating through their mental health charity Heads Together," James explained. It's nice to see that he and Kate clearly lean on one another.
Click to expand...

On a side note, this is why I always found it strange that Meghan says she was discouraged from seeking treatment for her mental health. The precedent was already set with Harry opening up about his struggles and it's said Kate and William encouraged him to seek help because of the downward spiral he was on ?‍♀️
 
marbri said:
On a side note, this is why I always found it strange that Meghan says she was discouraged from seeking treatment for her mental health. The precedent was already set with Harry opening up about his struggles and it's said Kate and William encouraged him to seek help because of the downward spiral he was on ?‍♀️
Click to expand...

AFAIK Meghan wanted an inpatient stay and was discouraged to do that. That I can believe -- they probably thought being privately treated by a therapist was better and wouldn't get all the tabloids talking.
 
marbri said:
Minor point but the Middletons aren't British aristocracy ;)

I recall this mentioned years ago in relation to that foundation William, Kate and Harry started for mental health. So I found this article from 2019 for you:
www.townandcountrymag.com

Kate Middleton's Brother James Middleton Is Opening Up About His Battle With Depression

"It is not merely sadness. It is an illness."
www.townandcountrymag.com www.townandcountrymag.com



On a side note, this is why I always found it strange that Meghan says she was discouraged from seeking treatment for her mental health. The precedent was already set with Harry opening up about his struggles and it's said Kate and William encouraged him to seek help because of the downward spiral he was on ?‍♀️
Click to expand...
IIRC, Catherine and Pippa attended therapy sessions with James. I never found the denials of mental health help credible because of the history you mentioned.

The common denominator with Harry and Meghan is their employees leave rather quickly. People quit bad bosses.
 
canbelto said:
AFAIK Meghan wanted an inpatient stay and was discouraged to do that. That I can believe -- they probably thought being privately treated by a therapist was better and wouldn't get all the tabloids talking.
Click to expand...
Well, I think it was a little more than just an inpatient stay. I want to say that there was concern about the facility she was looking at for her stay being more along the lines of a celebrity magnet and perhaps not necessarily truly focused on the best health outcomes for patients.
 
What I did not understand at the time and still can't understand is - mental illness with suicidal thinking are so obviously very serious! Prince Harry and Meghan have consistently painted a very life-threatening situation for Meghan. I have never seen any indication that Meghan struggled with mental illness before her marriage to Harry and understand that her situation was entirely due to her situation in the royal family, the British media, racism, and her total lack of support. They claim that mental health care (at least the type they felt was vital) was withheld.

So - Harry's plan to relocate his family, cease their royal duties, reduce their media exposure, would make total sense. Why then the plan for 1/2 time? How would that solve anything? It just does not make sense to me. I have a beloved daughter who has suffered with severe OCD that hit her when she was away at college. I would have moved her to the moon, spent my last dollar trying to find a place where she could find some peace. Sorry to make it personal but for me it is.
 
@puglover - not for one second do I doubt your daughter's mental health struggles and I hope she is able to heal.

Having said that, while I'm sure Meghan has had her challenges with integrating into life with the British Royal Family and those challenges may have negatively impacted her mental health, there is a lot of other information out there that leaves some of us questioning the extent of those mental health issues she faced as well as the truth in her claims that the Royal Family was made aware of her need for treatment (not just in-patient but of any kind). The Sussexes have a penchant for stretching the truth to make them appear in the best possible light or as the constant victims and a lot of what they've said has turned out to be... Well, spin if not outright lies.

Add into all that the previously discussed openness from both William & Harry have been about seeking mental health therapy themselves, and the denials that Meghan ever asked for any mental health treatment from sources close to the Royal Family, and, well, YMMV but, for me, I find the "I was denied mental health treatment" claims from Meghan to be very suspect and, probably, another one of her many lies.
 
I tend to believe the mental health struggles were real, if only because I know many women who suffered from severe PPD and prior to that had never had any diagnosed mental health problems. It does sound like Meghan had some PPD going on.

But a more prudent step might have been to take a leave of absence (the way Kate and Charles did for their cancer treatments) before making such huge, life-changing decisions.

Also, James Middleton is white, so the stigma of needing mental health care is less. That's actually super important. POC have trouble accessing mental health care.
 
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Karen-W said:
@puglover - not for one second do I doubt your daughter's mental health struggles and I hope she is able to heal.

Having said that, while I'm sure Meghan has had her challenges with integrating into life with the British Royal Family and those challenges may have negatively impacted her mental health, there is a lot of other information out there that leaves some of us questioning the extent of those mental health issues she faced as well as the truth in her claims that the Royal Family was made aware of her need for treatment (not just in-patient but of any kind). The Sussexes have a penchant for stretching the truth to make them appear in the best possible light or as the constant victims and a lot of what they've said has turned out to be... Well, spin if not outright lies.

Add into all that the previously discussed openness from both William & Harry have been about seeking mental health therapy themselves, and the denials that Meghan ever asked for any mental health treatment from sources close to the Royal Family, and, well, YMMV but, for me, I find the "I was denied mental health treatment" claims from Meghan to be very suspect and, probably, another one of her many lies.
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I struggle to express what has bothered me about this but even if I take their accusations and claims at face value (which I also question) the half time thing seems like such an odd and ineffective solution. From Oprah to this latest interview with Jane Paulley, nobody seems to question this. Your wife says she is planning to kill herself, gives you the reasons, and you fight tooth and nail to stay in the same situation - just part time? And it seems like Harry would still consider doing that?
 
puglover said:
I struggle to express what has bothered me about this but even if I take their accusations and claims at face value (which I also question) the half time thing seems like such an odd and ineffective solution. From Oprah to this latest interview with Jane Paulley, nobody seems to question this. Your wife says she is planning to kill herself, gives you the reasons, and you fight tooth and nail to stay in the same situation - just part time? And it seems like Harry would still consider doing that?
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I think I understand where you're going with your thought process... Nothing is quite adding up about the story. The claims seem too pat and perfect - and because it's mental health, you sort of are wrapping yourself in a protective bubble wrap because how dare anyone question you when you say "I was suicidal and needed mental health care but was denied it"? Anyone who begins to poke holes in that narrative risks being branded as unsympathetic, callous, mean or, even worse, secretly wishing she'd been successful at it. It's a nasty slope and it requires a tremendous degree of finesse - so much so that many people will stay far away from it at all.
 
I agree with @canbelto . Why not take an extended leave? It's not as if William and Catherine have been in the public constantly since they got married. I remember all the complaints about them being work shy.
 
When H&M first got married they were extremely popular in the UK. IMO that would have been temporary, after a while their popularity would have leveled out & W&K would have been on top again. I don't know why in the world the RF wouldn't want all members of the family to be popular but we've seen it with Diana & Sarah (Fergie), anyone more popular than Charles must be put down. He has shown his narcissus trait for years. That's when the dedicated bullying of Meghan began. That's when the pitting of Meghan vs Kate began. Relentless bullying would make anyone suicidal as we've seen by young people killing themselves because of online bullying. No matter how much of Meghan's press you believe or disbelieve there was no attempt by The Firm to protect her. Even now the meanest stories about her come from the British tabloids. Are they fueled by the palace? IDK but apparently she doesn't deserve to live her life. I think both Harry & Meghan have made a lot of mistakes. Harry's book & Meghan's failure to keep staff don't help. But why are these stories still coming from the UK & some are so outrageous that it's hard to believe anyone believes them- but they do. I saw one on tiktok yesterday that featured Charles & Lilibet & in the comments a lot of people chimed in forgetting those 2 have never met.
 
taf2002 said:
But why are these stories still coming from the UK & some are so outrageous that it's hard to believe anyone believes them
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Because bloggers and tik-tokers and politicians and media know that spreading gossip and conspiracy theories and even outright lies bring them attention, money, and power. Divide and prosper. These attacks aren't exclusive to Harry and Meghan. They're happening to every person in the public eye and every group that can be demonized.
 
I think the thing with Meghan and the staff is one of the few rumors about them I actually believe, as the turnover rate for her staff is incredibly high, and the newspapers that have reported about it aren't the usual British rags, but rather more reputable news sources.

Also, the turnover has followed them from London to Montecito. I can get if the Brits were not used to working for her and gave her a hard time, but in California it's been the same problems.
 
No one's journey with mental health is the same. Anyone can function perfectly well...until you can't.

I personally see Harry's part time attempt to being with the BRF and part time in US as an attempt to appease the BRF and to support his wife. Obviously the Meghan haters think she is faking an illness and is a manipulative bitch.

No one can see someone else's mental illness. No one knows the affect.

Everyone can have sympathy and undying loyalty when someone has cancer. Very few can be compassionate with mental distress.

But whatever, the only people who know their truth as those who experience their truth.
 
ballettmaus said:
Strangely enough, it's always the women who are the "nightmare boss" when they're in the spotlight. Or maybe not so strange...
Click to expand...

Tesla said:
Yeah, I wonder how her behavior compares to that of a man's.
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Harry certainly benefited from the protection of the Royal Household staff doing their best to smooth things over when he was being stubborn and incalcitrant behind the scenes about performing royal duties and going on tours - at least that is what has come out and been reported in the media since they left the UK 4.5 years ago - and especially in the aftermath of Spare.

I don't think it has so much to do with being a man as it has to do with being a royal. And, in today's media climate, he's maybe getting painted in a worse light - as not bright, bull-headed, narcissistic, and even whipped by his wife.

I don't know that either of them have been characterized as work-shy. Their biggest failing, as a couple, is their insatiable need to control the media. Both of them fail to understand, at a very fundamental level, the role and responsibility of a free press and that freedom of speech is a basic human right that should be unassailable and defended at all costs. Just because someone says something mean doesn't mean they don't have the right to say it, no matter how gross or offensive you find it to be. Period. End of story.
 
Karen-W said:
Harry certainly benefited from the protection of the Royal Household staff doing their best to smooth things over when he was being stubborn and incalcitrant behind the scenes about performing royal duties and going on tours - at least that is what has come out and been reported in the media since they left the UK 4.5 years ago - and especially in the aftermath of Spare.

I don't think it has so much to do with being a man as it has to do with being a royal. And, in today's media climate, he's maybe getting painted in a worse light - as not bright, bull-headed, narcissistic, and even whipped by his wife.

I don't know that either of them have been characterized as work-shy. Their biggest failing, as a couple, is their insatiable need to control the media. Both of them fail to understand, at a very fundamental level, the role and responsibility of a free press and that freedom of speech is a basic human right that should be unassailable and defended at all costs. Just because someone says something mean doesn't mean they don't have the right to say it, no matter how gross or offensive you find it to be. Period. End of story.
Click to expand...
I agree with you. One thing I think is sometimes overlooked is that although Harry had a certain reputation for trouble he was also a very popular member of the royal family. He was seen by many - royal household staff, friends, correspondents who travelled and reported on the royals, as the charming, fun, prince. He was amazing with children and appeared to notice and care about the lives of those whose job it was to serve the royal family. He would go for a pint with at least select media. People saw the wonderful, positive traits of his mother in Harry.

It seems that things changed when Meghan came on the scene. Comments like "what Meghan wants, Meghan gets" and the staff issues pointed to a different Harry. It was easy to place the blame for it on her. Now we know that Harry was not the happy, carefree boy-to-man and he carried deep resentments. People talk about wanting the "fun Harry" back. Time will tell. It seems a positive sign that he chose not to add further comments to this latest publication of his book in paperback and that he is still close to the Spencer side of the family.
 
I think it's kind of remarkable that people didn't realize that royals are just like other celebs, where their public image is often carefully crafted and very different from their private personality.

"Fun" Harry probably never really existed outside of carefully crafted public appearances. Meghan didn't "turn" Harry into anything -- it's obvious from Spare that Harry had a lot of anger towards his family, towards the press, towards the public. None of that was anything Meghan created. It was all there.
 
canbelto said:
I think it's kind of remarkable that people didn't realize that royals are just like other celebs, where their public image is often carefully crafted and very different from their private personality.

"Fun" Harry probably never really existed outside of carefully crafted public appearances. Meghan didn't "turn" Harry into anything -- it's obvious from Spare that Harry had a lot of anger towards his family, towards the press, towards the public. None of that was anything Meghan created. It was all there.
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Ehhhhh... Speaking for myself, I don't think I ever believed his public image was exactly who he is in private. The signs have been there for decades - anyone who lived through the fairytale Wales & York weddings and the way those marriages fell apart so publicly should certainly have enough common sense to realize that what we see of William & Harry in public is only a small sliver of who they are as people.

I do agree, Meghan didn't "turn" Harry into anything. It is far too early in their story, both as a couple and individually, to know precisely what role she plays in his complete life story (and, conversely, we can't really say what role he has played and will play in her complete life story). It's easy to think she's manipulated him - and that may prove to be a factor in the choices he has made - but, you're absolutely right. If he's being manipulated by her, well, those issues existed before she came into his life and it is those issues that allow for him to be manipulated. None of what has happened is solely within a bubble belief that it's all Meghan's fault. Harry is a grown-a$$ed man and was over thirty years old when she came into his life. And he'd made enough offhand comments in the years leading up to meeting Meghan for me to believe that what has happened since has been driven by him at least as much as it's been driven by her. If one wants to ascribe opportunistic characteristics to Meghan then one must also ascribe those same opportunistic characteristics to Harry - he took the out when it presented itself.

I do think it's a fair question to ask if they really love each other, though, or are they just using each other. And if they don't love each other, who will be the first to cut the other loose once they've gotten everything out of the relationship that they can. They're both parasites, so I'm rather curious to see how it all plays out.
 
Regarding who's a bad boss etc, I think one thing that continues to come into play for the casual observer is pretty simple. On the one hand you have a prince who people, royal watchers or not, think they have known since birth. He's still Diana's son in many ways, always will be. Doesn't hurt that he has a very proper accent, usually appears in a suit, and one imagines him as being rather polite. On the other hand, you have an American divorcee, a social climber, and someone who apparently very much wants to build a brand along the lines of other American celebrities like Paltrow and the Kardashians. Easier to imagine her as a demanding boss, especially when we see the continual turnover among their staff and various agents and consultants. Plus, to the casual observer, everything was just fine before she showed up in his life and suddenly he's leaving royal life and no longer besties with his brother and sister in law, so had to be something to do with her, right?

On a related note, the US patent office turned down her application for her lifestyle brand - sounds like she can still reapply with a revised filing, but it's another hiccup in what seems to me to be a poorly conceived and executed brand launch, contributing as so many other events have to the image of someone who wants to do everything but doesn't seem to be able to do any of it well.
 
As both Harry and Meghan's future lives and income seem to be based in the US, how do you think their latest endeavours will be received? Harry has his polo podcast but is that likely to generate much interest? It is clearly a sport for the very rich, boring (IMO) to watch, and potentially harmful to the horses. I have to admit to suddenly becoming enthralled with Formula 1 thanks to Netflix, so maybe polo?

Food podcasts etc. are huge but there are so many of them now and lots of them are unique - eg. Emmymade, Natasha, NaraSmith, etc. and my very favourite Jennifer Garner's Pretend Cooking Show. She uses fresh ingredients from her garden and she is just adorable and shares her hits and misses which I like. There is lots of competition out there.

Meghan's lifestyle brand has hit another speed bump and I am surprised it does not seem more geared to mothers of young children as that would seem her niche audience.
 
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