Olympic legend Button’s advice for Hanyu: Don’t overtrain

[mackiecat]

The repetition rule is the same rule that we had in 6.0. If you repeated a jump one must be in combo or sequence. If not there was a deduction. You could only repeat X amount of jumps ( this changed from year to year). There was a maximum number of jumps you could do. You were required to do a fly and a combo spin plus one more. The well balanced rule for the long has been there since the 90's at the Jr and Sr level.

For the under rotation question. If the skater pops to a double , they can then try the triple but if it is under or down, it is still called a triple E.i. 3Lo<< so it they did it again it would have to be in combination and would count as one of the repeated jumps.

 

[mackiecat]

This is the ISU chart for GOE. Every item has a positive GOE for enhancing the music. Spins have a negative GOE for poor positions and "ugly" positions. The steps have a negative for slow and for not enhancing the music.

http://www.skatinginbc.com/sites/de...ositive_goes_reductions_singles_2017-2018.pdf

 

[Bellanca]

Dick Button should probably add this advice, too – try not to over-analyze or overthink a program, etc. etc., and not just for Hanyu.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Dick Button should probably add this advice, too – try not to over-analyze or overthink a program, etc. etc., and not just for Hanyu.

That reminds me of a story of how when Michelle Kwan skated under 6.0, she said feeling the music got her through a performance. Conversely under IJS, Shizuka Arakawa used to count spin rotations by saying 'one strawberry donut. two strawberry donut. three strawberry donut."

 

[jlai]

This is the most broken record discussion I have on FSU and honestly I think I've said everything I have to say on the topic, but just one last time - having decades of 6.0 programmes to pick from and coming up with just a handful of skaters that were interesting, doesn't prove anything. I could come up with plenty of non medal contenders under IJS (or just link to team train wreck)that are also interesting and that is in less than 20 years of available skaters. I also quibble with everyone in the list above (Jo Carter??? Dmitrenko??) except Czako but i'm fairly sure she medalled at Europeans at least once so

Honestly in hindsight I suspect we will look back at the period between the abolishment of figures and the introduction of IJS as the crossover, Mohawk and three turn years, where the top skaters basically did those three things between the elements and not much else. Morosov's step sequences seemed like the work of a choreographic genius because he dared to put toe steps in amongst the three turns and mohawks and shook things up a bit.

A lot of 6.0 programmes do not stand up to the test of time and it's just crossover after cross over (and not even done in time with the music the majority of the time). If there was that little connection to the music under 6.0 (and there really were in a lot of programmes outside the medal contenders and a few within) I think it's comparable to what we have now. But at least now the skaters are demonstrating a lot if not all of the different turns and steps throughout the programmes they skate (and not just in the step sequences).

I agree that the IJS needs tweaking and some fundamental changes (like the value of combinations and sequences) and I think the PCS factoring in the mens event definitely needs addressing, but a blanket statement that 6.0 programmes were more interesting or creative than the programmes we have under IJS, I just cannot agree with in any way at all.

6.0 does not translate to nothing but cross over. According to Tom Dickson 6.0 had been going on for some time but then open skating started in the mid 80s under 6.0 as a change of trend. and then the trend did swing back when Ijs required more footwork. However the open skating trend and 6.0 developed separately and open skating just happened to be one fad towards the end of 6.0 era. By the time IJs came folks were tired of open skating and it swung back.

I don't think Janet Lynn was stroke stroke jump. But if all people remember is the last 30 years then you may think 6.0 was stroke stroke jump

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I don't think Janet Lynn was stroke stroke jump. But if all people remember is the last 30 years then you may think 6.0 was stroke stroke jump

Agreed.

Some of the IJS programs which demand such weird pretzel positions and tortured choreography, make the skaters look like they are having an actual stroke. There is little connection to the actual music.

 

[Japanfan]

A lot of 6.0 programmes do not stand up to the test of time and it's just crossover after cross over (and not even done in time with the music the majority of the time). If there was that little connection to the music under 6.0 (and there really were in a lot of programmes outside the medal contenders and a few within) I think it's comparable to what we have now. But at least now the skaters are demonstrating a lot if not all of the different turns and steps throughout the programmes they skate (and not just in the step sequences).

That may be true, and there may be more transitions under the new system - but we still see a lot of cross-over-jump-cross-over in program, especially given that technical content keep getting more demanding. And one thing that has gotten lost under the new system is the beauty of a simple element done to perfection.

I have enjoyed skating equally under both systems, but would say I prefer IJS because it allows for more movement between the SP and LP, which makes FS more exciting for me.

There have been exceptional performances under both systems, and they have been equally rare - if they were not rare, they would not be exceptional. I need to retain the capacity to be surprised, to be amazed, and to be touched emotionally. It is the skater who does that, not the system. And as I said in another thread (or maybe it was earlier in this one), when creativity exists, it finds a way to express itself despite rules and limitations.

 

[nimi]

That reminds me of a story of how when Michelle Kwan skated under 6.0, she said feeling the music got her through a performance. Conversely under IJS, Shizuka Arakawa used to count spin rotations by saying 'one strawberry donut. two strawberry donut. three strawberry donut."

The talk of Shizuka and donuts reminded me of this little gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=857LfFBdI1U

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

The talk of Shizuka and donuts reminded me of this little gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=857LfFBdI1U

Japanese commercials are bizarre and hilarious at the same time. Thank you for posting.

 

[becca]

That reminds me of a story of how when Michelle Kwan skated under 6.0, she said feeling the music got her through a performance. Conversely under IJS, Shizuka Arakawa used to count spin rotations by saying 'one strawberry donut. two strawberry donut. three strawberry donut."

Well maybe its partly because under 6.0 spins were according to Yagudin "rest time." I found Shiz's Olympic winning free to be very moving.

 

[Marco]

6.0 does not translate to nothing but cross over.

For me, 6.0 is when you look at the sum instead of its parts. IJS is when you look at the parts instead of the sum.

I hate that now, so much has to happen that nothing is held or made important, because everything is important. There has to be 30 arm flicks and 20 flourishes on jump landings nowadays for GOEs and PCS. Back in the days, it was a few meaningful and effective moves that were held.

 

[MAXSwagg]

For me, 6.0 is when you look at the sum instead of its parts. IJS is when you look at the parts instead of the sum.

I hate that now, so much has to happen that nothing is held or made important, because everything is important. There has to be 30 arm flicks and 20 flourishes on jump landings nowadays for GOEs and PCS. Back in the days, it was a few meaningful and effective moves that were held.

What is it Sandra said. IJS "misses the forest for the trees." Everything is scrutinized so much (and I'm not saying that's a bad thing) that the "big picture" is missed. A big help would be to have a panel give GOEs and a second panel give components. I don't know why they just don't do this.

 

[FSfan107]

I always love to hear from Dick Button! Glad he seems to be doing well. I absolutely agree with him about the current state of skating.

 

[skateboy]

Jill Trenary and that muzak. Cringey & bland at the same time.

And yet... I prefer that to much of the monochromatic, new age-y "tinkly piano music" which is used so often today.