Olympic legend Button’s advice for Hanyu: Don’t overtrain

aftershocks

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"'I get bored. Everybody is the same,' Button said. 'I just don’t find it interesting. And obviously the ISU doesn’t either. They’ll muck it up. Spew around the gold medals. They already do. Everybody is a gold medalist because some team wins the gold medal. Now everybody is a gold medalist. Add some more in, why not?'”

Preach Uncle Dick! Preach! :rofl: :lol:

"Did Button ever think he would see the day that Japanese skaters would be this strong?
'Of course,' he remarked. 'The rules favor slender bodies. Brian Boitano (the 1988 Olympic champion) nor I could possibly do anything under the rules today. I couldn’t have done a quadruple if my life had depended upon it.'”


:lol:

I do have to disagree with Button though about Javier Fernandez being the most original and artistic of the 'quad-oriented' skaters. Since Button admits he doesn't watch skating so much these days, how would he be able to judge accurately about who is the most creative and artistic? :p

Actually Javi has limited range, but under Orser's tutelage, Javi has steadily improved and he's found his 'artistic' niche. Still, I wouldn't call him the most creative. The strategy early on was to get Javi comfortable by utilizing the mime-oriented Chaplin-like mugging type programs which he did for three years. Then, his Black Betty sp was a standout and a kind of breakthrough for him. And the bullfighter program was good too. The judges have been quite generous on PCS consistently for Hanyu and Javi, even with their mistakes. Despite the judges giving him high PCS scores, it does not make Javi the most creative and artistic skater. But cool that Button qualified his assessment by saying "of the quad-oriented skaters," which narrows things down a bit. However, I'm sure fans would make an 'artistic' case for Hanyu, Shoma, Patrick, and even Denis Ten at his best. Nathan Chen is definitely no slouch artistically either, and he's trying to show that this season.

Perhaps Dick Button saw Javi compete at 2016 Boston Worlds, which was Javi's best fp performance ever. If that's what Button remembers, then I can see why he's impressed by Javier who was on fire in that competition. Javi's Frank Sinatra fp worked very well for him. While the ambitious Don Quixote fp this season seems wonderful on paper, I think the music is a tad heavy, and Javi still needs to work out some kinks. I'm not thrilled with the music, but maybe Javi will be able to grow this program over the course of the season. I would imagine that Orser would be very happy to see Javi win OGM, especially since Hanyu won the last Olympics. Other contenders will challenge as well though, and hopefully it will be a more exciting men's competition than in 2014.

BTW, Brian Boitano was primed to win two OGM back-to-back had he been allowed to compete in 1992. As well, Plushenko and/or Yagudin were skilled enough to accomplish that feat. The fact they didn't I suppose proves the difficulty which often is related to injury, bad luck, etc. Since Button didn't feel he performed as well in 1952, it seems luck was on his side. @N_Halifax in a recent blog discusses Button's battle with Hans Gerschwiler at the 1948 Olympics in St. Moritz, where as Button said, there was no Olympic Village so the skaters stayed in hotels.
 
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MAXSwagg

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Sadly I think he's just got his 6.0 rose tinted spectacles on :rolleyes: there are as many boring performances under this scoring system as their were under 6.0.

Many like he and Bianchetti think there was some golden age of skating where everything was perfect.
 

bardtoob

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Since Button didn't feel he performed as well in 1952, it seems luck was on his side.

I don't think it was luck. I think he just won ugly. Uncle Dick won figures by 42.5 points, and still performed the first triple, a 3Lp, in the Freeskate. He was just sloppy. Of course, he was last to skate at twilight on a chewed up outdoor rink.

Watch the first 50 seconds of this clip to get a feel for the conditions for the final flight in the freeskate. The brightness of the flashes from the cameras is very telling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR1CKZCw4tE

Here is some better footage from 1952. Note, a good example of his sloppiness is that he did three 2As in a row (sequence) at 0:37 but underrotated and double footed the third. However, he initial two 2As were very good and still considered cutting edge moves for anybody but himself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2lsyY0lQ9w

Here is some more footage of Uncle Dick from 1952. This includes his 3Lp at 2:40.
https://youtu.be/MYxOXmFkdYE?t=132
 
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kwanfan1818

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Button had plenty of what now would be bad positions, but in his time, to have stretch and point if you were a man was considered effeminate. It was a stylistic expectation of his period.

Many of his sharpest criticisms have been towards Ladies, especially wrt layback spins. There's long been a different standard for Men.
 

bardtoob

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Button had plenty of what now would be bad positions, but in his time, to have stretch and point if you were a man was considered effeminate. It was a stylistic expectation of his period.

Many of his sharpest criticisms have been towards Ladies, especially wrt layback spins. There's long been a different standard for Men.

Here Uncle Dick does a combination spin (flying camel-Upright with Leg Attitude-Scratch) and the attitude of his free leg during the Upright position is pretty good . . . And golly, he does that spin with force and speed.

https://youtu.be/ZR1CKZCw4tE?t=61
 

bardtoob

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Singles SPs have always been "the same", by design.

Singles LPs have always been "the same" because skaters are giving the judges what they think judges want to see.
 

kwanfan1818

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Dick Button was the one who said during 1968 US Nationals coverage that Peggy Fleming's 1968 US Nationals/Olympics program was essentially the same as the year before. (Even if the music was substantially different.)
 

Marco

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I vehemently disagree! As someone who used to go to local club comps and dutifully record all the elements in a notebook while watching, I soon came to realize how empty and "the same" so many 6.0 programs were.

How is your observation that "many programs at club comps were boring" relevant to my view that "many boring programs are at the top these days"?
 

clairecloutier

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I think Dick's criticisms of the current state of skating should be considered separately from his history with 6.0. It's possible to be dissatisfied with the current situation yet not advocate a return to 6.0. And he did praise several current and recent skaters like Javi, Mao, and Yuna, so it's not just about the past with him.

Dick has always been one of the sport's biggest fans. It's only been 4 years since he wrote a book (Push Dick's Button) about skating and how much he still loved it. So if he's lost interest since then, it's worth asking why IMO.
 

MacMadame

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How is your observation that "many programs at club comps were boring" relevant to my view that "many boring programs are at the top these days"?
Because there were more boring programs under 6.0. :) Even the club comp programs got more interesting under ISJ
 

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