Kostornaia out of Russian Nationals

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marbri said:
In Orsers defense both these ladies came to him physically broken and they were training them with that in mind. How long did either's career last due to injuries when they each returned to Eteri?

eta... might not be accurate with why the one came to Orser but her body certainly gave out when she returned to Eteri.
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I am not sure Orser needs any defense. I think he takes good care of his athletes. Exhibit 1: Javi,
 
Orser and Aratuinian would be a great option, only the RusFed would not pay for it and I don't think Alena is rich enough to afford it like Medvedeva could.

Am not sure who is a coach in Russia who would take her. Sokolovskaya aka the place where all the skaters who have no choice go? Perhaps she could go to her first coach Zhigun - the one who taught her the technique? May be Buyanova? I fail to see why would Kostornaya want to move to St. Petersburg from Moscow, so writing off both Mishin and Rukavitsin. If I understand correctly she only switched to Pluschenko to work with Rozanov, but that's not an option anymore either. Am not sure whether she parted ways well with Pluschenko (just jumping to a conclusion after his wife's interview where she specifies Trusova demanded Pluschenko either worked with her or Kostornaya and Pluschenko chose Trusova).

On one hand if I were Kostornaya who wants just to skate no matter what I would be looking for a country change (Georgia and Belarus seem to be packed, Armenia and Azerbaidjan are rumoured not to support their skaters financially at all, so that would not be an option for her I guess). If I were a Kostornaya who just wants to earn as much as possible from the Tutberidze girls hype I would stick around and hope Valieva/Trusova/Scherbakova would skip the worlds, where she should be able to beat Tuktamysheva/Usacheva/Khromykh, get that title and pray Averbukh invites her to the show.

It's kind of a.. good timing actually. This way she will not end up out of top 10 in the Nationals (AFAIK the juniors will be participating and she would be behind Valieva/Trusova/Scherbakova/juniors/perhaps even Tuktamysheva) and am sure if she is in the right shape and all the Olimpians skip the Worlds they would have a re-skate to give her a spot over... who? Guliakova? Samodurova?
 
TAHbKA said:
It's kind of a.. good timing actually. This way she will not end up out of top 10 in the Nationals (AFAIK the juniors will be participating and she would be behind Valieva/Trusova/Scherbakova/juniors/perhaps even Tuktamysheva) and am sure if she is in the right shape and all the Olimpians skip the Worlds they would have a re-skate to give her a spot over... who? Guliakova? Samodurova?
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Would all the Olympians skip worlds though? Maybe the gold medalist, but the other two? Even if Valieva wins would she skip worlds having never been before? If Scherbakova and Trusova are on the team but still recovering from injuries they might skip worlds I guess (though i'm not sure Trusova would really want to).
 
Spun Silver said:
Was Gabby Daleman with Cricket when she turned into a shadow of herself?
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I think so, but I'm not sure. And am also not sure whether - assuming she was at Cricket - anyone tried to help her with her ED. I would hope so, but don't know. Seems she wasn't much in the picture at the time she developed the ED, IIRC - which I may not.
 
antmanb said:
Would all the Olympians skip worlds though? Maybe the gold medalist, but the other two? Even if Valieva wins would she skip worlds having never been before? If Scherbakova and Trusova are on the team but still recovering from injuries they might skip worlds I guess (though i'm not sure Trusova would really want to).
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I sure hope they don't skip the worlds. It would be a shame if Valieva's career consisted of 3 senior competitions only.
The point am trying to make - it's actually good for Kostornaya not to compete at the Nationals this year. She will not end up out of top 10, she might be considered for the Worlds if there is a chance for a spot. I don't see her being a contender for the Europeans (and thus the Olympics) at this point even without the injury.
 
soogar said:
Broken arms/wrists are common in this camp. Zagitova had a broken arm, didn't Scherbakova also break her arm while a junior, Kamila broke her leg a few years ago (someone confirm bc I read this and it seems to be supported by internet search but I'm sure people who follow here know for sure) , Trusova is injured, Daria injured and now Alyona. Alyona hasn't said how she injured herself but she had been very cautious with her triple axel and all of a sudden, she returns to Eteri and the camp is talking about how she is not pushing hard enough. This is not one injury. In isolation you can say that Trusova is headstrong in her attempts to land quads. But looking at this group as a whole, they are pushing these skaters to do do lots of reps for quads and triple axels and they are breaking. She hasn't confirmed where she got her injury, but with all the pressure and force on the body, I wouldn't be surprised if that exhaustion and maybe a little self sabotage manifested itself in another area of her life.
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I see. As opposed to Orser where no one ever gets injured? Tursynbaeva was injured while being with Orser, and Daleman…and Hanuy is injured a lot! The selective memory of some people here… This is an elite sport that involves falling, injuries are unfortunately a part of it. But some people seem to recall every injury in Tutberidze’s school and conveniently forget all injuries with coaches they like.
 
hanca said:
I see. As opposed to Orser where no one ever gets injured? Tursynbaeva was injured while being with Orser, and Daleman…and Hanuy is injured a lot! The selective memory of some people here… This is an elite sport that involves falling, injuries are unfortunately a part of it. But some people seem to recall every injury in Tutberidze’s school and conveniently forget all injuries with coaches they like.
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But let's face it considering where she has been psychologically this was bound to happen, not so? Why not give her programs that show off her artistry ala Jason Brown? She's got all these natural gifts and they're not using them. It's a disservice to the student and the FS community. It's a straight jacket approach to coaching IMHO.
 
hanca said:
Because it worked so well for Medvedeva. And for Tursynbaeva.
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It’s the one coach fits all theory


Whoever the current hot coach is, every time anybody needs a coach send them to “coach du jour”.


Luckily for skaters, we don’t get to pick the coaches
 
We can't just blame injuries on being in Eteri's camp. The vast majority of figure skaters get injured at some point. When I was a teenager, I myself had a stress fracture in my leg and a back injury, of which I'm still feeling the effects 20 years later. That's on top of concussion (fell forward and didn't get my hands out in time to stop my head), whiplash, twisted ankles, popped blood vessels... and I was not out of the ordinary.

Even in the past decades, Stojko had an injury (groin?), Browning, Buttle and Plushenko had back problems, Kaetlyn Osmond broke her leg, Hongbo Zhao and Surya Bonaly ruptured their achilles, Lipinski had to have surgery on her hips... and those are just off the top of my head.

It's unfortunate that Kostoronaia got injured, especially in the lead up to the Olympics, but it is not Team Eteri's fault.
 
hanca said:
But some people seem to recall every injury in Tutberidze’s school and conveniently forget all injuries with coaches they like.
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Poor Eteri, everyone's so mean to her! :rolleyes:

Of course injuries happen to skaters and coaching teams of all nationalities.

But the shelf life of a Tutberidze skater doesn't extend past the age of 18.

HALF her senior skaters have had a severe injury this season, 2 have had season-ending injuries. This isn't normal.

Fortunately for Eteri, she can afford to push these kids to do well-documented insane reps or really drill the ultra cs because she has an unlimited number of skaters from which to choose. 3 skaters go down in an Olympic season? No worries, there are still 3 non-injured skaters available!

And guess what? She's dominating the sport, immature ass Gleikhengauz's hideous cut and paste choreography is now hailed as the gold standard in women's figure skating, and her team still has an excellent chance to sweep the Olympics podium. They're certainly being well-rewarded for their assembly line approach to figure skating.

But I don't have to like it, I don't have to pretend to enjoy it, and fans are well within in their right to call these things out. And since there seems to be the charming habit here of labelling anyone who criticizes the Tutberidze school as a bitter American xenophobe, let me say I would feel the exact same if this was an American coach and American skaters. And I've almost exclusively preferred Russian ladies skating over the Americans since the late 90s, as my avatar choices over the years easily prove. :p
 
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soogar said:
Broken arms/wrists are common in this camp. Zagitova had a broken arm, didn't Scherbakova also break her arm while a junior, Kamila broke her leg a few years ago (someone confirm bc I read this and it seems to be supported by internet search but I'm sure people who follow here know for sure) , Trusova is injured, Daria injured and now Alyona. Alyona hasn't said how she injured herself but she had been very cautious with her triple axel and all of a sudden, she returns to Eteri and the camp is talking about how she is not pushing hard enough. This is not one injury. In isolation you can say that Trusova is headstrong in her attempts to land quads. But looking at this group as a whole, they are pushing these skaters to do do lots of reps for quads and triple axels and they are breaking. She hasn't confirmed where she got her injury, but with all the pressure and force on the body, I wouldn't be surprised if that exhaustion and maybe a little self sabotage manifested itself in another area of her life.
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Calm down… Aliona herself said she had a bad fall on a triple axel which caused the wrist injury and this could happen to anyone in training.
 
TAHbKA said:
I sure hope they don't skip the worlds. It would be a shame if Valieva's career consisted of 3 senior competitions only.
The point am trying to make - it's actually good for Kostornaya not to compete at the Nationals this year. She will not end up out of top 10, she might be considered for the Worlds if there is a chance for a spot. I don't see her being a contender for the Europeans (and thus the Olympics) at this point even without the injury.
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Why would it consist of only three competitions if Valieva skipped words? Zagitova came back after winning OGM. Valieva could too.

I agree that Alena was not a contender this year for the Euros/Olys, based on how ber season went. It had nothing to do with her recent injury. She could come back, either by worlds 2022 or next season. She will be fine with any coach, including Eteri.
 
muffinplus said:
Calm down… Aliona herself said she had a bad fall on a triple axel which caused the wrist injury and this could happen to anyone in training.
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Thank you for the sensible post.

This hysteria over an injury to a skater appears to be about who her coach is.
 
alchemy void said:
Poor Eteri, everyone's so mean to her! :rolleyes:

Of course injuries happen to skaters and coaching teams of all nationalities.

But the shelf life of a Tutberidze skater doesn't extend past the age of 18.

HALF her senior skaters have had a severe injury this season, 2 have had season-ending injuries. This isn't normal.

Fortunately for Eteri, she can afford to push these kids to do well-documented insane reps or really drill the ultra cs because she has an unlimited number of skaters from which to choose. 3 skaters go down in an Olympic season? No worries, there are still 3 non-injured skaters available!

And guess what? She's dominating the sport, immature ass Gleikhengauz's hideous cut and paste choreography is now hailed as the gold standard in women's figure skating, and her team still has an excellent chance to sweep the Olympics podium. They're certainly being well-rewarded for their assembly line approach to figure skating.

But I don't have to like it, I don't have to pretend to enjoy it, and fans are well within in their right to call these things out. And since there seems to be the charming habit here of labelling anyone who criticizes the Tutberidze school as a bitter American xenophobe, let me say I would feel the exact same if this was an American coach and American skaters. And I've always preferred Russian ladies skating over the Americans since the late 90s, as my avatar choices over the years easily prove. :p
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You had me until you used "ultra c" :rofl:

Just kidding...sort of. But I totally agree, and Tom Z (apologies i have no idea where to even start spelling that name) rightfully came under scrutiny when he was being very questionable towards his injured skaters.
 
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