Kate Spade found dead (apparent suicide)

[AxelAnnie]

daughter's full name is Frances Beatrix.[/QUOTE]


Reportedly her husband was shopping for a new apartment for himself. Who leaves a note on the bed near your dead body addressed to your young daughter? And "ask daddy".

First of all, Tinami, I'm sorry for what you and your friend are going through. I hope you're doing as well as you can.

Your quote is interesting. In your example, the child is basically asking their parent to stick around and continue facing pain just for their sake. I wouldn't judge anyone for feeling that way or wanting that. But couldn't that be interpreted as just as or more selfish than someone taking their own life? Is asking someone to keep suffering in order to be there for them selfish?

Yes it is selfish. Once you have a child though you have a higher duty to them than they do to you. The adult is supposed to take care of the child.

 

[Japanfan]

Yes it is selfish. Once you have a child though you have a higher duty to them than they do to you. The adult is supposed to take care of the child.

People who are mentally ill are not capable of thinking in terms of their higher duty. They are in pain, and they just want it to stop. A parent who is is incredible physical pain would be the same, but physical pain is often more easy and straightforward to treat than mental pain.

My brother's previous wife and the mother of his two children committed suicide after multiple attempts when her children were quite young (10 and 8 IIRC). She described her illness as falling into a deep dark hole that she couldn't get out of. She would spend days in bed and was hospitalized for her illness several time. Looking back, we thought that she might not have been properly diagnosed and treated.

When she was well she loved her children as much as any other loving mother. When she was sick, her love for her children could not rescue her from her agony and she was not able to love anyone.

People who are mentally ill are often consumed with self-hatred and feel that they have no worth. They cannot love themselves to start.

 

[MacMadame]

People who are mentally ill are not capable of thinking in terms of their higher duty.

But all that means is that their actions are more understandable. It doesn't change the fact that there is a higher duty.

I think the people who think suicide is selfish believe that not answering the higher duty is selfish regardless of the circumstances. The people who get upset by this point of view are arguing that the person is incapable of thinking that way and that negates the higher duty or at least makes it irrelevant.

Personally I don't think it's that black & white. I am not willing to say that no one who commits suicide is selfish. (Are we saying that selfish people never commit suicide?) But I'm not willing to say that the very act is always selfish either. There are plenty of people who really are at their wits end and have tried everything and nothing is working. If they had terminal cancer, I'd be okay with them killing themselves. So why not an untreatable mental illness? I don't see the difference.

 

[once_upon]

When you mind is sick and the depth of despair that may lead to suicide, has you believing you ARE doing the greater good for your children. To protect them from the ongoing darkness, pain and depths of despair and allow them to be happy. Since your illness is causing their lives to be so negatively impacted by you.

You may not understand it, you may not agree with it. But when your brain is that sick, your thinking is different. Thoughts of suicide and plans to commit suicide is not a good place. Your thoughts are not like what society considers norm.

Everyone is a victim. And no it is not as simple as saying it is selfish and you should think about children. I am certain that most are thinking about others, how much their lives will improve. Sick brains think differently than a healthy brain.

 

[vesperholly]

Knowing my mother wanted to check out when I was 13 and not wanting to see me grow up would have destroyed me.

I have a little experience with how an ill mind can distort things. Your brain can often think of any justification for suicide. It could be their greatest wish to see their children grow up, but your broken mind might think that by staying alive, you would be actively harming/ruining your children's lives. "I am only hurting the people I love and I can't fix it. I'm better off dead."

I don't know if this is what Kate Spade was thinking (her note is ... interesting), but I certainly know of some extremely toxic thoughts that have crossed my mind when depression has kicked in.

 

[Twilight1]

So why not an untreatable mental illness? I don't see the difference.

Because terminal illness does not have the stigma attached to it. People still feel like people with mental illness have a character defect. They are flawed and they "choose" to be sick.

The number of clients and families I work with who believe that is scary and sad.

People don't choose to be suicidal, they just are. It is a symptom of something bigger that the mental health system right now can't always fix or "cure."

I can't even begin to share my grief of the people I have worked with who have passed away due to the progression of their illness.

Working in this field, you just pray you did everything you could to help and that the person gets better.

 

[Gazpacho]

The people I know with severe depression are definitely not more selfish than the average person. Some of them are among the least selfish people I know. As others have said, suicide can, to the suicidal person, seem like a favor to others. They think others would be better off without them. And who can blame them with the number of people who abandon and/or criticize them due to their depression.

 

[MacMadame]

Knowing my mother wanted to check out when I was 13 and not wanting to see me grow up would have destroyed me.

My mother tried to commit suicide when I was little. I never even thought about it as her not wanting to see me grow up.

 

[AxelAnnie]

People Magazine is reporting that Ms. Spade suffered from bipolar disorder for years. And for years she refused to get treatment because she was afraid that news of her treatment would damage her brand.

Charming . And Selfish.

 

[Twilight1]

People Magazine is reporting that Ms. Spade suffered from bipolar disorder for years. And for years she refused to get treatment because she was afraid that news of her treatment would damage her brand.

Charming . And Selfish.

Yes People magazine are the experts on understanding why people fear getting mental health treatment.

Maybe look at SAMHSA... you know the experts...

 

[berthesghost]

Damage the brand she sold over a decade ago? Sorry people, not passing the smell test.

 

[Deleted member 221]

People Magazine is reporting that Ms. Spade suffered from bipolar disorder for years. And for years she refused to get treatment because she was afraid that news of her treatment would damage her brand.

The source for this seems to be the email interview from her sister, which is speculative to say the least. Giving an interview while grieving and after taking a sedative seems like not the best idea to me....

 

[once_upon]

How does/did People magazine diagnose bipolar? From her sister's comments about trying to have Kate voluntarily go to the facility that treats Catherine Zeta-Jones for bipolar? News flash not all depression illnesses are bipolar, not all clients of a specific place have bipolar disease.

Regarding stigma surrounding bipolar one only has to listen to the general population talk about things negatively. Weather changes - Mother Nature is bipolar, the list goes on.

The stigma of mental illness is real. You have cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc, you are cared about and accepted. You have a mental illness you are told to suck it up, pull yourself up, you don't need medications you're just selfish or faking an illness. People understand diabetes or cancer or whatever acceptable disease...they choose to not understand mental illness instead choose to judge.

 

[mysticchic]

It's not always depression that does it. About 3 months after my coma, the doctor gave me a med to help with headaches. It made it so I didn't sleep for 5 days. By day 3 I was looking up ways to kill myself. I wasn't depressed or anything. I just wanted to die. By day 4 a friend of mine who was taking care of me noticed something was wrong and called my nurse. In the state the drug had me in, it felt natural to die. I was obsessed with dying. The nurse and the friend tried to call the doctor and tell him what was going on (they took the med away from me). Doctor told them "yes, it's a side effect and she will get over it". Needless to say, that was the last time I spoke or saw him.
Prayers to her family.

 

[Yazmeen]

People Magazine is reporting that Ms. Spade suffered from bipolar disorder for years. And for years she refused to get treatment because she was afraid that news of her treatment would damage her brand.

Charming . And Selfish.

And if People reports it, it must be true!!! Anything else you want to accuse Kate Spade of?

And I sincerely hope your family and loved ones are never burdened by mental illness or suicide. Because then you might have to face that they don’t fit into the neat (and self-centered) little boxes you created for them. But of course I also realize you thrive on your own self-righteousness, so I’m not a bit surprised by any of your statements here. It’s all about you, after all, not the subject or the tragedy. Please don’t less us distract you from your self satisfaction.

 

[skatesindreams]

My heart is with the Spade family. I hope they can eventually find peace.

Seconding this.
What a tragedy this is.

 

[puglover]

I truly believe the brain is the last frontier. People talk about seeking treatment for mental illness like getting a prescription from your doctor for a chest cold. Take it a few days - you feel much better. I have a beautiful, talented daughter who suffers from mental illness, and at least, in her case, the cure was almost worse then the disease. It took years for us to find a medication that helped, the side effects were tolerable, she still felt like herself. Relationships are destroyed and it is so very beyond challenging for loved ones, especially those involved in day-to-day care giving. In any other illness, the patient is their own best witness to what is happening, mental illness can negate that. My daughter felt much better when she was manic but for us - that was nightmare time. My husband's family has a wonderful creative streak that is so delightful, but more than their share of bi-polar, mental illness issues. I believe there can be a correlation between the two. My heart goes out to her family.

 

[AxelAnnie]

The source for this seems to be the email interview from her sister, which is speculative to say the least. Giving an interview while grieving and after taking a sedative seems like not the best idea to me....

Correct. Last nice it looked like an unfolding story...not a repeat of one story. My apologies.

Bipolar is such a catch all diagnose (and opinion from people other than doctors). My grand daughter (who is 21) has gone to so many places since she was 11 to try to get help. Even went Mayo. Their best consensus: One Dr. said she was bipolar 1 the other said bipolar 2. That is useful. They are treated very differently. She has been on and off so many meds. Two months ago, after just being so very tired of being unwell, she tried to kill herself. Luckily her mom found her. It was touch and go for several days as she was on dialysis and intubated. She survived, and is now in a treatment facility where they will (hopefully) stabilize her meds and give her the tools she needs to manage her illness.

She will tell you now that she was just looking to make it stop - and that she had no idea that it would upset anyone. She can now see the total disregard for the consequences of her actions on the people who love her.

 

[Winnipeg]

Such a sad story. It is difficult to imagine how badly she must have been feeling to take such a permanent step. I don't think we can judge her action in the sense no-one really knows how she felt, what she was thinking, etc. ?

I feel badly for the family too. I have known a few people who have committed suicide and sometimes think........was there anything I could have said or done to help? Any signs I should have noticed? But ultimately, the person made that choice good or bad from whatever perspective you see it from.

 

[judiz]

My husband committed suicide on September 14th. Unless you have been witnessed to the devastation of mental illness, you have no right to judge others.

 

[Winnipeg]

My husband committed suicide on September 14th. Unless you have been witnessed to the devastation of mental illness, you have no right to judge others.

I am very sorry for your loss. I agree 100% about your comment re judgement.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Both sisters are confirming bipolar....according to the Daily News.

"Spade’s other sister Reta Saffo said in an email to the Daily News that she was not surprised that Spade took her own life.

I will say this was not unexpected by me. I’d flown out to Napa and NYC several times in the past 3-4 years to help her to get the treatment she needed (inpatient hospitalization). She was always a very excitable little girl and I felt all the stress/pressure of her brand (KS) may have flipped the switch where she eventually became full-on manic depressive,” Saffo wrote.


Safe said she tried to get Spade into treatment in her later years, but the fashion designer was concerned about her public image if word got out.


e

 

[once_upon]

Unless the sisters had access to her medical records or KS confirmed it to them (which we will never know) this is speculation on the sisters part. Whether or not she had bipolar disease or not, the image of what bipolar is, persists in the public that one is always unstable. Perhaps she was right to be concerned as people are judging her in death. When will we stop giving lip service to saying mental health needs to be addressed and actually, you know, put resources to it?

 

[skatesindreams]

Perhaps she was right to be concerned as people are judging her in death. When will we stop giving lip service to saying mental health needs to be addressed and actually, you know, put resources to it?

Amen!

I've heard reports that the sister sharing this medical "information" has been estranged from the family for many years.

 

[RockTheTassel]

I have a beautiful, talented daughter who suffers from mental illness, and at least, in her case, the cure was almost worse then the disease.

I wish those with limited experience in mental illness would better understand this. Treatment can be brutal. Even if the medication works, side effects are sometimes overpowering.

I finally severed ties with a medication I've taken for several years because of the weight gain and fatigue side effects. At first I tried to simply get over it - as long as the medication worked, I could withstand it. But recently I realized that in the last two years, I've put on eighty pounds. It's something I've come to terms with because at least I'm okay and weight can be lost. But as someone who was once in shape and active, it's been devastating to see that part of my identity fade away (initially from mental illness, then from side effects). And beyond that, the toll it's taken on my physical health is too high.

Now that I've chosen to stop using the medication, I'm currently going through withdrawal while tapering. I have constant headaches, tremors, and I've already apologized to my roommate twice for being so irritable. It was the right move, but it's definitely a challenge. Most mental treatment is a challenge, which is why it's frustrating when it's seen as some kind of quick fix. Therapy isn't taking about your problems once a week and having them all go away. Medication isn't taking a pill and suddenly feeling happy or normal. Treatment is complex and, unfortunately, often fails and needs to be retooled. And despite that, those of us who endure it are actually the lucky ones because at least we have access and some hope of improving.

Anyway, I'm sorry for what you and your family have been through, Puglover. Being a parent of a mentally ill child is tremendously difficult. I'm glad she's doing better.

 

[judiz]

My husband was on so many medications that he developed involuntary body movements so severe he had to be hospitalized.

 

[Japanfan]

My husband was on so many medications that he developed involuntary body movements so severe he had to be hospitalized.

I remember you posting about that Judiz.

How are you bearing up, seven months since losing your husband?

 

[judiz]

I remember you posting about that Judiz.

How are you bearing up, seven months since losing your husband?

Just sold my house and planning on moving to an apartment with my son. He graduated from college a few weeks ago and just started a temp job in his field he hopes will become permanent. One day at a time.

 

[Rob]

Thanks for checking in with us judiz.

 

[MacMadame]

Both sisters are confirming bipolar....according to the Daily News.

That's not what her husband said. He said she's been in treatment for anxiety and depression for several years (which is not bipolar) and that she was in treatment and not refusing it as her sisters claim. Since he talked to her every day and saw her frequently, I will take his word over theirs.

Especially since this report comes from several reputable news sources and not a rag like the Daily News.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-husband-said-her-death-was-a-complete-shock/