ISU World Standings Have Been Updated

Vagabond

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19,670
But that’s a problem with the judging, no? Judges who overlook flaws in and/or award higher GOE/PCS to skaters based on their start order, reputation (or lack thereof), and jump content aren’t following the stated guidelines. The ISU seems to accept it as perfectly fine because they’re not getting disciplined for it.

That's not a flaw in the world rankings? That's a flaw in the judging.
It's a flaw in both the judging and using the World Rankings.

As much as I love the idea of disciplining judges until they apply COP "correctly," I don't think that it would be easy to do. The bias in favor of skaters who start later in the Short Program appears to be unconscious and nearly universal among judges. If it were up to me, I would work on improving the quality of judging, but I would also stop seeding Short Programs in international Senior competition. 🤷‍♂️
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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6,479
I am fine with the world rankings as they are I mean yeah you do have to get your butt out there and attend some events but what I wish they would do is keep the random draws. That may be an unpopular opinion but I really feel that way
 

haribobo

Why is summer so hot omg
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8,421
The less active and/or injured skaters definitely take a hit but so is the case in tennis and any sport with rankings. The main problem for me is that US/JPN/RUS skaters outside of the top 3 or 5 can't get to Euros/4CC or Worlds so they are held down a bit compared to the Kurakova's and Litvintsev's who show up everywhere. But that is life and probably won't ever change...Otherwise I'm totally ok with the rankings as is.
 

Tavi

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2,091
It's a flaw in both the judging and using the World Rankings.

As much as I love the idea of disciplining judges until they apply COP "correctly," I don't think that it would be easy to do. The bias in favor of skaters who start later in the Short Program appears to be unconscious and nearly universal among judges. If it were up to me, I would work on improving the quality of judging, but I would also stop seeding Short Programs in international Senior competition. 🤷‍♂️
You may be right about unconscious bias, and I absolutely agree some skaters who skate early are under marked. But I don’t think it’s just because of start order. You can always find examples of skaters who skate early in the SP who end up medaling, although admittedly that’s most frequent when the skater is from a big fed or already has a reputation but starts early due to having been out of competition. But I think there’s other stuff at play, because super talented skaters from small feds like Javi and D10 do break through.
 

alj5

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3,461
There is no perfect way to rank competitors. There's no perfect judging system.

It's just the rules we are working within at the moment.
 

ЭPiKUilyam

Well-Known Member
Messages
917
As much as I love the idea of disciplining judges until they apply COP "correctly," I don't think that it would be easy to do. The bias in favor of skaters who start later in the Short Program appears to be unconscious and nearly universal among judges. If it were up to me, I would work on improving the quality of judging, but I would also stop seeding Short Programs in international Senior competition. 🤷‍♂️
In theory I agree with unseeded short programs. Put a Shcherbakova in the first group, mixed in with skaters from Brazil and India, just to show the difference between a 3 and a 9 in skating skills or whatever. Problem is that Shcherbakova would likely score lower than a Trusova skating in the final group due to the skate order. It's not fair to the earlier skaters, unfortunately. And I don't see that ever changing. Sure you can skate first like Butyrskaya in Nagano and have your program hold up, but what if Butyrskaya skated in the final group? I really didn't like Lipinski's SP that year. Tara was not a technical skater per se. She had jumps, but her elements were mostly of low quality. Unfortunately her second mark skills were worse so she was considered as being a great "technician".... But anyway, unseeded short programs would be better, except for judges' preconceived or innate biases concerning skate order.
 

VALuvsMKwan

Wandering Goy
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7,660
In theory I agree with unseeded short programs. Put a Shcherbakova in the first group, mixed in with skaters from Brazil and India, just to show the difference between a 3 and a 9 in skating skills or whatever. Problem is that Shcherbakova would likely score lower than a Trusova skating in the final group due to the skate order. It's not fair to the earlier skaters, unfortunately. And I don't see that ever changing. Sure you can skate first like Butyrskaya in Nagano and have your program hold up, but what if Butyrskaya skated in the final group? I really didn't like Lipinski's SP that year. Tara was not a technical skater per se. She had jumps, but her elements were mostly of low quality. Unfortunately her second mark skills were worse so she was considered as being a great "technician".... But anyway, unseeded short programs would be better, except for judges' preconceived or innate biases concerning skate order.
Not a fan of the Sugarland-via-NJ Sweetheart?
 

jiejie

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830
With respect to short program draws for major competitions, there is a middle ground between using strict World Standings (or some other numerical ranking) and full random draws. The field could be divided up and random draws within each group. For instance, in a theoretical field of 30 women, divide in half. The 15 skaters with the lower rankings random draw for start orders 1-15, the 15 higher-ranked skaters draw for start orders 16-30. I could have sworn some version of this was done in past competitions, though it might have been several years ago.
 

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