ISU to evaluate feasibility of 2020-21 skating season

starrynight

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I want there to be a Worlds but I think they will have to come up with a different qualifying system for spots to the Olympics than the usual, even if every federation is able to send a full complement of skaters. Maybe use worlds as the baseline but have something so feds have the opportunity to qualify additional spots in the fall?
Skating is a hard one for this. In other sports they can just say every country gets 2 spots provided your swimmers complete the race in 'x time' at Nationals. Black and white, done.

But trying to do entries based on domestic scores for a judged sport is hard because the judges can just do what they want.
 

mjb52

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I don't think it should be based on domestic scores for sure. Maybe a more elaborate version of what happens at Nebelhorn?
 

Cherub721

YEAH!
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I want there to be a Worlds but I think they will have to come up with a different qualifying system for spots to the Olympics than the usual, even if every federation is able to send a full complement of skaters. Maybe use worlds as the baseline but have something so feds have the opportunity to qualify additional spots in the fall?

That was my thought too (sure would be great for Spanish ice dancers) but I bet the smaller federations would complain as it would assure the big countries maximize their slots.
 

starrynight

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Yes I think that something needs to be thought of.

There'd be a lot of politics involved in running a full Olympic qualifier in March. Some countries' athletes are well prepared because training has proceeded at full scale and others have had minimal training. Good opportunity for a fully trained country to capitalise and come in and take spots. And I don't think it's fair that we could have an Olympics where countries who struggled with 'rona or tried to introduce control methods don't have spots.
 

Colonel Green

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One way I thought about was to assign most of the Olympics spots based on the world standings for the 2019-2020 season (but only the points accrued in that season, not the holdover points from previous years) up to a maximum of three per country, and then any country that doesn't qualify any spots via this method should compete for the rest at Nebelhorn (so people like Loena Hendrickx could qualify that way).
 

starrynight

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And it does kind of grate me that these Worlds are being run by the conspiracists poster child country and by a Federation that doesn't even prioritise Olympic representation anyway -- after they refused to let Alexander Majorov go in 2018 because he couldn't guarantee a top 8 finish.
 

mjb52

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That's not really the skaters' fault so I don't think it's fair to take it out on them, even at a subconscious level.
 

starrynight

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I think my subconscious feeling is that after Sweden has spent a year boasting about how they had no containment measures (and encouraging all the world's conspiracists and deniers) ... I am meant to believe that they will hold a safe event? What a place to have to entrust the safety of all our skaters to.
 

mjb52

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I think my subconscious feeling is that after Sweden has spent a year boasting about how they had no containment measures (and encouraging all the world's conspiracists) ... I am meant to believe that they will hold a safe event? What a place to have to entrust the safety of all our skaters to.

They haven't done anything of the sort, jesus. The reporting on Sweden is absolutely awful.
 

MsZem

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I think my subconscious feeling is that after Sweden has spent a year boasting about how they had no containment measures (and encouraging all the world's conspiracists) ... I am meant to believe that they will hold a safe event? What a place to have to entrust the safety of all our skaters to.
The US doesn't have any nationwide containment measures, and they managed to set up Skate America just fine - not with skaters from all over the world, but with skaters travelling from multiple training locations.

The ISU was able to pull off a rescheduled and relocated worlds in just over a month back in 2011. I see no reason to call off 2021 four months ahead of time, regardless of the number of badly written Canadian articles on the topic. We'll know more in January-February, and the ISU and host federation can figure it out then.

p.s. the Swedish approach was not that no measures are needed, it's that they would provide guidance rather than official restrictions and trust the population to comply. By now we know their approach was not successful, but then there are also countries that have had strict lockdowns that haven't fared all that well, either.
 

Dobre

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As I've mentioned before, I've not given up on the possibility of Worlds yet--particularly if it can be pushed back a couple months.

I just want to put in a word on behalf of the more bubble-ranked non-European skaters like Donovan Carrillo. I don't want to see Donovan have to go try to earn one of only a handful of berths at Nebelhorn against the likes of Nathan Chen, Vincent Zhou, Boyang Jin, Yuzuru Hanyu . . . you get the picture. I would like the Donovan Carrillos of the world to have a fair shot.
 

misskarne

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The ISU was able to pull off a rescheduled and relocated worlds in just over a month back in 2011. I see no reason to call off 2021 four months ahead of time, regardless of the number of badly written Canadian articles on the topic. We'll know more in January-February, and the ISU and host federation can figure it out then.
But in 2011, only one country was affected by the disaster that saw Worlds canned. It was easier to pull off because Russia was untouched.

Here, all countries are affected, in varying degrees. It's also an evolving situation. It's nothing at all like 2011.
 

MsZem

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But in 2011, only one country was affected by the disaster that saw Worlds canned. It was easier to pull off because Russia was untouched.

Here, all countries are affected, in varying degrees. It's also an evolving situation. It's nothing at all like 2011.
It's a different situation for sure, but my point is that the ISU is more agile than we give them credit for. By now there are plenty of examples of countries holding successful sporting events, including international ones, and they can learn from that. If it looks like things are improving in early 2021, they can figure out whether to hold the event as scheduled or push it further into spring, or even to a location better equipped to host. That's not a decision that needs to be made right now.
 

SpeedySucks

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Given that most of the Canadian skaters who would go to Worlds are adults, I would hope they’re being given a say in whether or not they compete at Worlds. They are well aware of the risks at this point and should be able to make the decision for themselves as to whether or not they want to compete and deal with any quarantine situations before or after. Assuming that the skaters can legally get to Sweden and back, it would be unfair for the federation to mandate that they can’t go.
 

marbri

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And then someone tried to make an article out of it and made it seem like a bigger deal than it is. IMHO.
Yes. The article is two days after Junior Worlds is cancelled, the day before NHK is to start and it's in the Figure Skating section of CBC sports website. Not a lot of skating happening in Canada so this is the conversation. And then some people here post as if it's a done deal and it's all "too bad, so sad, good luck to the cowards trying to qualify for the Olympics in Neblehorn".
 

Japanfan

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Canada has, IMO, been quick on the trigger to move to cancel events or turn them into virtual events when possible as well as postpone their own Nationals.

Well - we are doing a whole lot better than the US in terms of YKW cases. So the decisions made have been good ones. In a recent speech, Obama said that if the US had adopted Canada's approach to the virus, 130,000 lives might have been spared.
 

MsZem

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If Worlds is held, I don't think it should determine Olympic spots. Athletes shouldn't be forced having to decide between helping their country get an Olympic spot or potentially becoming sick and a long-hauler which could impact their training for months.
But this may also be true if they have a qualifying event in the fall. We simply don't know what the situation will be like in the spring, when and how extensively vaccine deployment will occur, etc.

Another alternative would be to use 2019-20 results, but that's an incomplete season and would disadvantage anyone who wouldn't compete or wasn't at their best then. I don't think there will be any solution that 100% fair.
 

taz'smum

'Be Kind' - every skater has their own story
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But this may also be true if they have a qualifying event in the fall. We simply don't know what the situation will be like in the spring, when and how extensively vaccine deployment will occur, etc.

Another alternative would be to use 2019-20 results, but that's an incomplete season and would disadvantage anyone who wouldn't compete or wasn't at their best then. I don't think there will be any solution that 100% fair.
How about combining the results of 2019-20 with the results of a qualifying competition. A type of body of work qualification
 

MsZem

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How about combining the results of 2019-20 with the results of a qualifying competition. A type of body of work qualification
Skating could also take a page from other sports and do regional allotments and qualifiers, to cut down on travel.

I think it's clear at this point that the usual qualifying procedure will need to be adapted, though to what extent I can't really say.
 

allezfred

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Given that most of the Canadian skaters who would go to Worlds are adults, I would hope they’re being given a say in whether or not they compete at Worlds.
It isn't as simple as that. If for example there is a Canadian Ministry for Foreign Affairs travel advisory for Sweden saying the Canadians should avoid travel there, then whatever insurance policy Skate Canada has will likely not cover their skaters competing at Worlds.
 

Carolla5501

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It isn't as simple as that. If for example there is a Canadian Ministry for Foreign Affairs travel advisory for Sweden saying the Canadians should avoid travel there, then whatever insurance policy Skate Canada has will likely not cover their skaters competing at Worlds.

Since I really doubt you have read any of their insurance policy I think you should not be commenting on what it would cover or not cover.
speculation of issues you can come up with to make the situation worse really doesn’t help
 

SpeedySucks

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It isn't as simple as that. If for example there is a Canadian Ministry for Foreign Affairs travel advisory for Sweden saying the Canadians should avoid travel there, then whatever insurance policy Skate Canada has will likely not cover their skaters competing at Worlds.

Yes, hence why I said the skaters should have a choice assuming they can get to Sweden legally. If there is a travel advisory or the Canadian government says they can’t go, then it’s not really up to the skaters at that point.
 

allezfred

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Yes, hence why I said the skaters should have a choice assuming they can get to Sweden legally.
They'll still be able to get to Sweden legally provided Sweden doesn't suddenly bar Canadian citizens. A travel advisory is just that - advice.
 

Vagabond

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They'll still be able to get to Sweden legally provided Sweden doesn't suddenly bar Canadian citizens. A travel advisory is just that - advice.
Sweden is barring Canadian citizens at the moment. The current ban is until December 22, but does anyone really expect it not to be extended?
 

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